So who is still sceptical about our aggressive reset?

[The Nostradamus]

View attachment 454539

looks like old man Waite

 

[rippersnipper]

Not a reset, but a rebuild and it needs to last for at least another seaaon or we'll only push for the bottom of the top 8 again. We need a lot of high draft picks, starting with Simpkin and LDU.

 

[Bigeasy]

Wait, has he?

Im 50/50 but what gives the impression he changed

We will just have to wait and see

 

[Le Grille]

We will just have to wait and see

But you said he had, I am just not sure how you could assess that, just interested if there has been chatter re: Brad's demeanour/MO.

 

[naturally north]

But you said he had, I am just not sure how you could assess that, just interested if there has been chatter re: Brad's demeanour/MO.

It might not be Brad per se but a club directive, result is the same though for us. Am sure Brad' missionary' Scott loves his 50% winning record over the journey. It has enabled us to remain not great and not really bad.

 

[North Viking]

looks like old man Waite

 

[Bigeasy]

But you said he had, I am just not sure how you could assess that, just interested if there has been chatter re: Brad's demeanour/MO.

I still say he has. Can't prove it yet can I?

 

[Le Grille]

I still say he has. Can't prove it yet can I?

Don't get me wrong, I was just wondering what you've seen to give the impression he has.

 

[Tas]

Out:
Swallow
Harvey
Firitto
Gibson
Dal
Drew
Thomas
Wells
Bread

Dal, Swallow and Drew were cooked, went one year too long, if not more, and should have been retired irrespective where we were on the premiership clock or how long they were contracted for.

Wells requested a trade, largely because of the people we moved on. We tried to convince him to stay so was hardly our decision.

Firrito and Harvey should have gone on in 2017 based on form.

Gibson is partly a team balance issue, something we had neglected to address for years (lack of speed between the arcs made it difficult to defend against quicker sides). It should have been done some time ago tbh irrespective of our prospects.

I think existing contracts limited the changes we made, but we had the salary cap space to pay out players who were done and carry new recruit salaries.

That being said, we didn't field a very young or inexperienced side early last year, in some games we were older and had more experience than the opposition, we started to play more kids once injuries got out of hand, would we have dropped older in-form players had they not got hurt? Brad isn't big on dropping experienced players in general.

Is it an aggressive reset or is it just the inevitability of running the list into the ground that has also become injury prone? Who knows, the end result is we have some good young prospects to follow, lets hope we don't blow their development like we did with many others when Brad first came in.

 

[marklovesbeer]

Dal, Swallow and Drew were cooked, went one year too long, if not more, and should have been retired irrespective where we were on the premiership clock or how long they were contracted for.

Wells requested a trade, largely because of the people we moved on. We tried to convince him to stay so was hardly our decision.

Firrito and Harvey should have gone on in 2017 based on form.

Gibson is partly a team balance issue, something we had neglected to address for years (lack of speed between the arcs made it difficult to defend against quicker sides). It should have been done some time ago tbh irrespective of our prospects.

I think existing contracts limited the changes we made, but we had the salary cap space to pay out players who were done and carry new recruit salaries.

That being said, we didn't field a very young or inexperienced side early last year, in some games we were older and had more experience than the opposition, we started to play more kids once injuries got out of hand, would we have dropped older in-form players had they not got hurt? Brad isn't big on dropping experienced players in general.

Is it an aggressive reset or is it just the inevitability of running the list into the ground that has also become injury prone? Who knows, the end result is we have some good young prospects to follow, lets hope we don't blow their development like we did with many others when Brad first came in.

Didn’t Goldy, Swallow & LT all get dropped due to poor form during the season?
12 months earlier that would have sounded crazy.

 

[Dan]

No top end talent and not sure we have anyone that's gonna be top end in the near future.

Richmond only has 2 in Martin & Rance but you could argue they are number 1 & 2 in the competition. Hawthorn & Geelong in recent years have had those top end talents and results speaks for itself.

The side needs a top 5 mid and a top 5 fwd/def with a sprinkle of good players to be any threat.......more low draft picks and pursuing of FA/trades needed. If you weigh up the Laidley and Scott years to date.....we are a middle team, with middle team results, middle team draft picks and middle team quality players.

 

[kangaspurs]

No top end talent and not sure we have anyone that's gonna be top end in the near future.

Richmond only has 2 in Martin & Rance but you could argue they are number 1 & 2 in the competition. Hawthorn & Geelong in recent years have had those top end talents and results speaks for itself.

The side needs a top 5 mid and a top 5 fwd/def with a sprinkle of good players to be any threat.......more low draft picks and pursuing of FA/trades needed. If you weigh up the Laidley and Scott years to date.....we are a middle team, with middle team results, middle team draft picks and middle team quality players.

Think we've got the top 5 KPF and top 5 KPD player sorted out in Brown and Tarrant, but yeah we definitely need quality in the midfield. Hopefully we've started to rectify that with Simpkin and LDU and then this year with a top pick, Thomas and Scott.

 

[Grogg]

That being said, we didn't field a very young or inexperienced side early last year, in some games we were older and had more experience than the opposition, we started to play more kids once injuries got out of hand, would we have dropped older in-form players had they not got hurt? Brad isn't big on dropping experienced players in general.

Is it an aggressive reset or is it just the inevitability of running the list into the ground that has also become injury prone? Who knows, the end result is we have some good young prospects to follow, lets hope we don't blow their development like we did with many others when Brad first came in.

That's the 64 million dollar question for me too. Like you, I'm not sold on the coach doing some sort of philosophical about face and leaving relatively fit Senior citizens kicking the mudflats in the VFL while the promising kids are given preferential treatment. It's just not him. He's pretty much said this himself in the past, publicly. I'd be more inclined to believe it was a tap on the shoulder and a whisper in the ear from someone higher up the foodchain which forced the hand of change.

 

[King Corey]

Out:
Swallow
Harvey
Firitto
Gibson
Dal
Drew
Thomas
Wells
Bread

In:
Simpkin
LDU
Ahern
Larkey
Hayden
Walker
Junker
Murphy
Xerri

Oldest to 2nd youngest in 12 months.

Feel free to add to my "off the top of my head" list.

Now STFU and support the club you blockheads.

Well conversely..

In 2017 let's say we retained:

Harvey
Firitto
Dal

And then we brought Simpkin into the lineup.

This would've seen us retain experienced outside users, a forward finisher and some leadership and energy from Spud. Plus we'd have added Simpkin to the mix.

The team dynamic would be different, only Drew would've been shown the door (noone could argue with that at the close of 2016) so morale would be better overall. So we'll say LT would've been in better form too. And Wells wouldn't have had his head turned.

The side would now be better equipped to handle the tight games with higher experience across the board, mid-fwd class and and would've made the finals.

Once there Brad and Leigh would've recognised the low quality of the other finalists and set all resources to an all out flag assault, drawing on the lessons of 2014 and 2015.

During the GF, the microwaves would've had no answer for a midfield of Cunnington, Dal, Wells, Boomer, Swallow (who'd rediscovered his mojo) et al let alone coping with Brown, Waite and Daw (who would revive his 2016 finals form) getting spoonfed ball. Rather than bemoaning the worst premiership side ever we'd all be celebrating the culmination of 4 consecutive finals series as we'd hoist up cup number 5.

Narni would do some hilarious post-match interviews for Fox and all would be good in the world.

 

[Long Live the King]

Not sure if I'm sceptical....its the size of the "reset" that got me thinking our list management strategy might have been off a little...then again if we jagged Dusty / JK...

 

[shintemaster]

Brown and Tarrant are top 5 (or in the ballpark). You still have to get it to the forward line though. It's mids and we know it, no coincidence that when Wells was up and flying during our best years we torched some teams off the back of him. I'm not convinced it's as simple as saying you need a top 5 mid. I'd take two top 15 mids in a heartbeat...

 

[lockheed]

I would have kept Harvey for one more year; he was still one of our best ball users and his departure was a public relations disaster. Petrie was cooked. Firrito deserved another year on form, and probably Dal as well, but I was happy to move them on to get games into our best young players. Delisting Gibson in 2017 gave him an opportunity to find another club. In addition, these departures have given us a very large war chest with which to hunt elite talent.

We have a wealth of potential, but we don't yet know how good our young players will be. Delisting Mullet potentially gives Ahern a spot on the backline for the year, and sadly, Lochie was probably past his best.

 

[FAILTOSUCCEED]

Waite & Thompson

 

[Tas]

Didn’t Goldy, Swallow & LT all get dropped due to poor form during the season?
12 months earlier that would have sounded crazy.

Swallow and Thomas were dropped after round 5 when we were 0-5 and the season in terms of finals was effectively over, my point was if we were 5-0 instead of 0-5 and the older guys were in form and playing well would we have made the changes despite the success "for the good of the team going forwards"? I don't believe it for a second. So is the reset something planned or just a reality of just losing games and having a tsunami of injuries?

Hansen didn't exit the side until after round 13 and there probably wasn't anyone at the club who thought that he was going to get a new contract. Yet Durdin was only given a decent run at it from round 18-23 despite his strong pre-season, good VFL form and decent showing when given a crack.

There were many other younger players who probably could have been given more of a crack last year but we gave a lot of games to more experienced guys. So is it an aggressive reset or just a turn of events or having too many injuries and poor senior form? You don't need to be brave to drop players who have zero impact. Brad had been talking up the youthfulness of our list long before he actually gave many of them much of a go.

I think it is great the kids that did get a go did so last year, I just question how aggressive it was, we had piles of injuries and a whole bunch of players scratched for the entire season yet we still rolled out a side in the last round that was older than Richmond's premiership team and only marginally less experienced.

I think us playing some inexperienced talented kids instead of older, mature plodders seems like an aggressive reset but most sides do that by default, even successful sides.

I think it was masterful how it was sold though, every other coach who had the same kind of performance was sacked irrespective of contract or quality of list. Schimmer was preemptively sacked because he had the stink of having a shithouse year after one bad pre-season game. Yet everyone has managed to pat themselves on the back how we have navigated a rebuild year. I am still having nightmares over the last rebuild under Scott. I just fear we have set the bar too low. Does anyone at the club feel like they need to perform to collect a significant sum of money?

I hope whatever happens over this year and the years to come it miraculously works, Rebuild 1.0 had a lot of flaws, I hope we can address a lot of those flaws this time around otherwise we will be booking in Rebuild 3.0 in less than a decade. I have faith we can do it, but the evidence is lacking. I just hope we see signs that we are doing things better.

 

[Bigeasy]

Well conversely..

In 2017 let's say we retained:

Harvey
Firitto
Dal

And then we brought Simpkin into the lineup.

This would've seen us retain experienced outside users, a forward finisher and some leadership and energy from Spud. Plus we'd have added Simpkin to the mix.

The team dynamic would be different, only Drew would've been shown the door (noone could argue with that at the close of 2016) so morale would be better overall. So we'll say LT would've been in better form too. And Wells wouldn't have had his head turned.

The side would now be better equipped to handle the tight games with higher experience across the board, mid-fwd class and and would've made the finals.

Once there Brad and Leigh would've recognised the low quality of the other finalists and set all resources to an all out flag assault, drawing on the lessons of 2014 and 2015.

During the GF, the microwaves would've had no answer for a midfield of Cunnington, Dal, Wells, Boomer, Swallow (who'd rediscovered his mojo) et al let alone coping with Brown, Waite and Daw (who would revive his 2016 finals form) getting spoonfed ball. Rather than bemoaning the worst premiership side ever we'd all be celebrating the culmination of 4 consecutive finals series as we'd hoist up cup number 5.

Narni would do some hilarious post-match interviews for Fox and all would be good in the world.

I'll have what he's having

 

[czero]

Its amusing, because aggressive reset isn't what the 'plan' was. Where is the 'sustained success' we kept hearing...

We hung onto some players longer than we should of, limiting younger player development, and now we have a sudden cliff because of said hanging-on.

I'm just waiting for them to roll out Paul Keating and say 'This is the aggressive reset we had to have...'

 

[The Nostradamus]

A key to the reset needs to be favouring youth over Thompson and Waite next

Getting 22 games into Durdin and McKay over Thompson and Waite

Thompson and Waite are mature depth that shouldn't play more than a handful of games

 

[Tas]

A key to the reset needs to be favouring youth over Thompson and Waite next

Getting 22 games into Durdin and McKay over Thompson and Waite

Thompson and Waite are mature depth that shouldn't play more than a handful of games

I think the key is opportunity. Preuss was in a good position to get a solid block of games in after his performance round 2 last year and he lost momentum after he was left in the cold and was effectively dropped for a Goldy that was playing with zero dicks.

If a young player isn't ready then I am not fussed if they are made to earn their games, it is when we hold back some players which irks me.

If Waite is fit and firing, then he will be helpful to the young guys out on the field as they learn, I don't mind if Waite plays regularly a long as there is opportunity. There is scope to rotate a few positions, but ultimately if a young player takes the bull by the horns then that is going to dictate how much space there is for other younger players.

I don't want to see senior players who aren't playing well just stinking it up in the seniors. I am more optimistic of Waite performing when fit and available than most other senior players.

 

[ferball]

Its amusing, because aggressive reset isn't what the 'plan' was. Where is the 'sustained success' we kept hearing...

We hung onto some players longer than we should of, limiting younger player development, and now we have a sudden cliff because of said hanging-on.

I'm just waiting for them to roll out Paul Keating and say 'This is the aggressive reset we had to have...'

In 2015 we were rorted out of a GF appearance. That year we probably should have started playing younger guys but it would have cost us that shot at a GF.

Sometimes you make decisions based on what you think is your best option and then you have to wear the consequences. I'm ok with that.

 

[KiwiRoo]

A key to the reset needs to be favouring youth over Thompson and Waite next

Getting 22 games into Durdin and McKay over Thompson and Waite

Thompson and Waite are mature depth that shouldn't play more than a handful of games

I'm more a fan of mixing youth and experience rather than go full on and playing the youth exclusively (I think Scott is in the same boat). I think the younger players pick up the pace etc quicker playing with more experienced team mates. Especially KP players
So I'm not too worried if Thompson and Waite play a reasonable chunk of games this year.

I think it will do Mackay some good to be eased into senior footy. Durdin can probably cope with more game time.

So I think Scott will keep the experienced guys in the side and rotate the younger players around them.