Suns Priority Pick (with poll)

[tombomb]

Such a narrow minded opinion.

Having a competitive comp is far better for the game.

but giving them pick 2 wont help them in the short term. They will be on the bottom again next year, lukocious and/or king will leave and then they will want another priority pick.

GC should get significant salary cap concessions, scaled down over the next 5 or so years to help them improve quickly.

 

[Toump Ass]

Having a competitive comp is far better for the game.

Good idea- let's fold the feeder team so their talent can go to clubs who know how to develop it. Would be much better for everyone!

Neither did Melbourne for blatant anking, but they got handouts anyway.

Incorrect. We did deserve help- remember if Carlton hadn't thrown games for years Melbourne wouldn't have been deprived of the high draft picks they deserved.

 

[Morro]

but giving them pick 2 wont help them in the short term. They will be on the bottom again next year, lukocious and/or king will leave and then they will want another priority pick.

GC should get significant salary cap concessions, scaled down over the next 5 or so years to help them improve quickly.

Agreed

 

[Morro]

Good idea- let's fold the feeder team so their talent can go to clubs who know how to develop it. Would be much better for everyone!

Incorrect. We did deserve help- remember if Carlton hadn't thrown games for years Melbourne wouldn't have been deprived of the high draft picks they deserved.

Or lets reset them properly.


You taking the piss in your glass house?

 

[Toump Ass]

We went through this a few years when Brissy were near the point of needing one. Melbourne fans were the most adamant that no PP should be handed out.

And what did you learn from this?

Sounds like those Dees fans knew what they were talking about.

 

[tombomb]

Agreed

you look at GWS. There are maybe 15 players on the GWS list that are better than the best Gold Coast player.

How will one 18 year old kid, help them in the way they need to be helped.

Every other club is trying to build a premiership team, Gold Coast should be trying to build a decent team.

It isn't that difficult. There is a massive market of players out there who could be bought from other clubs. Looking for financial security that sets them up for life. nearly every club would have a Brandon Ellis. Not elite players, but good enough to help gold coast improve quickly.

An extra $2 million in the salary cap, scaled down to zero over the next 5 or 6 years and the problem could be solved in one free agency/trade period.

 

[Toump Ass]

They should trade Pick 1 to Brisbane for Jarryd Lyons

 

[Morro]

you look at GWS. There are maybe 15 players on the GWS list that are better than the best Gold Coast player.

How will one 18 year old kid, help them in the way they need to be helped.

Every other club is trying to build a premiership team, Gold Coast should be trying to build a decent team.

It isn't that difficult. There is a massive market of players out there who could be bought from other clubs. Looking for financial security that sets them up for life. nearly every club would have a Brandon Ellis. Not elite players, but good enough to help gold coast improve quickly.

An extra $2 million in the salary cap, scaled down to zero over the next 5 or 6 years and the problem could be solved in one free agency/trade period.

That has been my argument. I am close with a large corporate who contributes big funds to the GC academy and also one of the assistants at the Suns.

Everyone is in agreement that draft picks are only a small piece of the puzzle.

 

[tombomb]

That has been my argument. I am close with a large corporate who contributes big funds to the GC academy and also one of the assistants at the Suns.

Everyone is in agreement that draft picks are only a small piece of the puzzle.

it feels like there is a simple fix, based around the salary cap, that doesn't need to piss off the other 17 teams.

 

[Neale4brownlow]

I don’t agree with the decision but I understand they need to replace talent that they keep losing (Martin is now leaving?), which as everyone agrees is GCs biggest challenge. Until they address the reason for players wanting to leave the cycle will continue.

Chicken or the egg? What comes first?

If they can start winning games they'll hold players. BUt they cant start winning games

but giving them pick 2 wont help them in the short term. They will be on the bottom again next year, lukocious and/or king will leave and then they will want another priority pick.

GC should get significant salary cap concessions, scaled down over the next 5 or so years to help them improve quickly.

Can't trade in players without picks....

 

[La Dispute]

Rubbish pick 2 won’t help them in the short-term. They get an AFL standard player, which is what they are currently lacking.

For all the denigrating the idea that young players won’t do anything for the club, Luko and King were silver-linings to another horrible season (despite being key position players who notoriously take a long time to develop), they provide their supporters with some excitement and optimism for the future, and most importantly provide a good reason for other quality young players to stay at the club.

Imagine injecting Sam Walsh or Bailey Smith into that Gold Coast team. They’d be immediate top 10 players and provide good production from the get-go. This is what they are getting with Rowell and Anderson.

 

[tombomb]

Chicken or the egg? What comes first?

If they can start winning games they'll hold players. BUt they cant start winning games


Can't trade in players without picks....

they could turn pick 1 into three 1st round picks if they wanted to. if they had the money, they could easily sign/trade for 5-7 brandon ellis level players and the problem would be fixed.

 

[tombomb]

Rubbish pick 2 won’t help them in the short-term. They get an AFL standard player, which is what they are currently lacking.

For all the denigrating the idea that young players won’t do anything for the club, Luko and King were silver-linings to another horrible season (despite being key position players who notoriously take a long time to develop), they provide their supporters with some excitement and optimism for the future, and most importantly provide a good reason for other quality young players to stay at the club.

Imagine injecting Sam Walsh or Bailey Smith into that Gold Coast team. They’d be immediate top 10 players and provide good production from the get-go. This is what they are getting with Rowell and Anderson.

I'm imagining it ... and they are still the worst team in the league.

 

[harmesy 37]

This year we have the highly unusual circumstance of having the top two draft prospects also being best mates since childhood. I think this rare situation will influence the AFL to give the GC the opportunity (which they will no doubt take) to take them both as a package deal on the premise them being best mates greatly increases the chances of them both staying, even if they lose King next year to play with or at least be near his twin brother. These two staying together will then provide a platform for the Suns to develop with some quality players that stay.

It's for this reason IMO the AFL will allow GC the first 2 picks due to this one off circumstance.

Oh, I get it!

This is under the newly installed AFL Rule code 23311.01 -known as the AFL Mates Rules. As in best mates can play together if it makes people at AFL Headquarters feel all fuzzy and happy & if it benefits an "expansion club"!

That is an official ruling they will stick by in future then I guess when "two mates" are about to go 1 & 2 in the draft, or only for the Gold Coast?

This is why people grow to hate the AFL- made up rules to benefit certain teams.

Why is the discomfort Brisbane supporters, Melbourne supporters, Carlton supporters and whatever other club that has basically camped itself in the bottom 8 for the last 5 plus years any LESS valid than Gold Coast supporters?

Gold Coast actually has a thriving local comp. The Gold Coast is NOT an AFL wasteland. I bet you any money that the AFL Commissioners that make these decisions have never seen a local team at Palm Beach-Currumbin, never seen Southport's facilities etc. Been to Broadbeach's ground? I bet you they haven't. These AFL people let Brisbane reclaim a strong ladder position without assistance, I say screw Gold Coast and I have no desire to see manufactured wins for them just so AFL people can feel happy.

 

[tombomb]

Oh, I get it!

This is under the newly installed AFL Rule code 23311.01 -known as the AFL Mates Rules. As in best mates can play together if it makes people at AFL Headquarters feel all fuzzy and happy & if it benefits an "expansion club"!

That is an official ruling they will stick by in future then I guess when "two mates" are about to go 1 & 2 in the draft, or only for the Gold Coast?

This is why people grow to hate the AFL- made up rules to benefit certain teams.

Why is the discomfort Brisbane supporters, Melbourne supporters, Carlton supporters and whatever other club that has basically camped itself in the bottom 8 for the last 5 plus years any LESS valid than Gold Coast supporters?

Gold Coast actually has a thriving local comp. The Gold Coast is NOT an AFL wasteland. I bet you any money that the AFL Commissioners that make these decisions have never seen a local team at Palm Beach-Currumbin, never seen Southport's facilities etc. Been to Broadbeach's ground? I bet you they haven't. These AFL people let Brisbane reclaim a strong ladder position without assistance, I say screw Gold Coast and I have no desire to see manufactured wins for them just so AFL people can feel happy.

It is amateur hour if a decision would be made based on rowell and anderson being friends and therefore they won't want to leave.

If that is seriously going to influence them to give the Gold Coast a priority pick, then they should just fold them.

Even the Melbourne media are cheering them on though, so it is going to happen. And we will be having the same discussion about what to do with Gold Coast this time next year.

 

[La Dispute]

I'm imagining it ... and they are still the worst team in the league.

They might well be, but it’s both a short-term and long term measure.

They won’t stay down if, like GWS before them, they’ve got a stupid number of talented kids all improving together. Look at how quickly Brisbane ascended as players entered their 3rd, 4th and 5th years with some decent supporter around them.

Clubs don’t stay at the bottom forever, and if the AFL can find one more avenue to prevent this, they’ll put it into place.

 

[tombomb]

They might well be, but it’s both a short-term and long term measure.

They won’t stay down if, like GWS before them, they’ve got a stupid number of talented kids all improving together. Look at how quickly Brisbane ascended as players entered their 3rd, 4th and 5th years with some decent supporter around them.

Clubs don’t stay at the bottom forever, and if the AFL can find one more avenue to prevent this, they’ll put it into place.

they need a more significant intervention than more early draft picks.

Otherwise the early draft picks today, will soon be 23 and wondering what on earth is going on with their career. King and Lukocious will probably leave next year.

The only solution is significant extra salary cap, immediately. Everything else is just deck chairs on the titanic stuff.

There is no comparison with GWS and how they were created. Completely different circumstances.

 

[Neale4brownlow]

they could turn pick 1 into three 1st round picks if they wanted to. if they had the money, they could easily sign/trade for 5-7 brandon ellis level players and the problem would be fixed.

Yes, and I agree that what they should do with one of their picks (assuming there is players available).

But they should also get a priority pick to do exactly that. Then they can keep pick 1 and replace a young star also.

They need both things happening at once (talented youth coming through, B grade players to be competitive now and build a culture).

 

[La Dispute]

they need a more significant intervention than more early draft picks.

Otherwise the early draft picks today, will soin be 23 and wondering what on earth is going on with their career. King and Lukocious will probably leave next year.

The only solution is significant extra salary cap, immediately. Everything else is just deck chairs on the titanic stuff.

There is no comparison with GWS and how they were created. Completely different circumstances.

They don’t need significant intervention, they just need wins and reason for optimism - that is what will keep young players and attract quality players. No more half-measures like giving them second-chance state leaguers.

Sign some pseudo A-graders like Crouch on inflated front-ended contracts, and sign their current guns on long-term deals.

The back end stuff is already improving, they just need some more wheels in motion, and to create some camaraderie among the players.

 

[YEOw]

Chicken or the egg? What comes first?

If they can start winning games they'll hold players. BUt they cant start winning games

Fair point, they had and have talented players but 12th is the clubs highest ever finish

 

[Johnny Bananas]

We have gone from a completely unbiased equal system to a media driven vibe deal that no longer helps out struggling teams.

Anyone who thinks the current system is better is a moron, the compo in the old system just needed to be lowered.

3 wins or less gets you pick 19
8 wins or less in 2 years gets pick 11
12 wins or less in 3 years gets pick 1

Either that or scrap the thing full stop, only Gc, Brisbane, GWS will ever get anything as it is.

So you want teams to tank for high picks again?

 

[Duckimus Prime]

you look at GWS. There are maybe 15 players on the GWS list that are better than the best Gold Coast player.

Are you trying to argue that Gold Coast should get pick 1 as a priority and use it to draft the two best kids? Because thats what the GWS approach was.

And thats why they're in the position they are. They went stockpiled as many high draft picks as often as they could.

An extra $2 million in the salary cap, scaled down to zero over the next 5 or 6 years and the problem could be solved in one free agency/trade period.

Extra salary cap doesn't help at all long term, because they're just screwed over having to offload players as that extra cap disappears. And those experienced players they attract with the salary space don't have any trade currency when their contract ends. So they don't have the cattle to keep the list going with top kids and they plumet.

If GWS is a successful example, the AFL needs to be giving the Suns more picks and making them use them on the top kids. Give them salary space to hold onto those kids to their mid 20s, then let them trade them out of more top picks when they're at the top of their game. Thats what GWS did.

Not the failed approach of recruiting experienced players that Gold Coast ran with the first time.

 

[Billy ray]

I remember going to this game at the end of 2013

AFL Tables - Gold Coast v Greater Western Sydney - Sun, 1-Sep-2013 1:10 PM - Match Stats

Suns 66th game and GWS 44th.
Thinking great my suns are on the way, well ahead of GWS who started a year later. Players starting to gel and work well together.
And indeed 2014 we started well and were looking good.

It’s interesting looking at the two playing lists that day for each team.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Incorrect. We did deserve help- remember if Carlton hadn't thrown games for years Melbourne wouldn't have been deprived of the high draft picks they deserved.

Melbourne were the only club to be sanctioned for tanking-related offences. Disgraceful really.

 

[tombomb]

Are you trying to argue that Gold Coast should get pick 1 as a priority and use it to draft the two best kids? Because thats what the GWS approach was.

And thats why they're in the position they are. They went stockpiled as many high draft picks as often as they could.


Extra salary cap doesn't help at all long term, because they're just screwed over having to offload players as that extra cap disappears. And those experienced players they attract with the salary space don't have any trade currency when their contract ends. So they don't have the cattle to keep the list going with top kids and they plumet.

If GWS is a successful example, the AFL needs to be giving the Suns more picks and making them use them on the top kids. Give them salary space to hold onto those kids to their mid 20s, then let them trade them out of more top picks when they're at the top of their game. Thats what GWS did.

Not the failed approach of recruiting experienced players that Gold Coast ran with the first time.

so you want to create another GWS where they have 30 1st round picks and the only thing that keeps the competition remotely even are injuries and that 5 of them walk to Melbourne clubs each year only to be replaced by 3 more?

Gold Coast have more than enough young talent. they need decent (not state league) mid tier talent so that those young players arent getting flogged each week and want to leave.