Taylor up forward... Why?

[Partridge]

Fair enough. I rated Stoneham, but opinions are known to vary in these here parts

Not sure who I'd take tbh.

Definitely not saying he wasn't a good player - because he very clearly was. Just I don't rate him up there with Ablett or even Hocking, and I don't think he was going to get any better than he was. He wasn't this great key forward that was robbed of a career; he'd already had the best part of nine seasons before the broken leg occurred.

 

[00VicWard001]

Definitely a tantalising bunch of scenarios your pitching!!! Love it.

Think when a lot of people give our forward line s**t, they tend to forget that a lot of it is out of their control and is about the quality of the work and structures further up the ground.

We tended to hold onto the ball a lot more last year and move it slower and more precisely, we often had our forward line flooded and exposed for rebounds. In all fairness to our forward fifty, it is not easy to score when you have your front half flooded. These sort of scenarios often saw us go for options floating into holes inside 35-50m out. Your clearly not going to get Hawkins or Menzel charging out unmanned in these situations, they are the first that get covered in the flood backs. So fairness where fairness is due to our better forwards with a lot of our game style last year.

If we start to see more fast break open football with fluency from the back half, I expect to see our more dominant forwards play a more prominent role in the front half with space to work into a bit more. Could mean a bigger year for Hawkins Taylor and Menzel.

It really does depend on the architecture of the work done to get the ball into fifty that will determine a lot of our forward success and in particular which types of players the sort of entry is more suited too.

Honestly I don't think a lot of the modern ball movement into fifty has suited Hawkins, definitely not the way we have moved it anyway.

This is such a good point. I get irritated when I see posters making black and white suggestions about firing a coach or how Hawkins is terrible and no longer suited to the modern game, or Blitz 'just' guards space.

These are such one sided views that don't actually attempt to have insight into why this is happening beyond a cursory 'CS is destroying our club'.

You literally can only work with what you have and this is where CS and his team are not lauded enough. When we couldn't win ruck contests because we had no proper tap ruckman, we used our superior reading of the play to win it back at the next contest the ball was moving to. When we didn't have fast running back flankers we used precise slow movement to get it forward.

And every year, despite deficiencies from our ideal situation, we had an alternate way, that was executed by our team, and every year we ended up high on the ladder.

Now, it looks like it's clicking together nicely. Danger, Smith and Menegola are keys to ensuring the midfield wins contests. Selwood can now slot in and do what he does. Enright will be missed, but due to his abilities (and lack of pace) we designed that slow play transition. He's gone, we've replaced him with fast attacking players who win contests. Tuohy will never be Enright, but that's not his style, but he will have Enright coaching him (and he's far more like Heath Shaw who has been a revelation for the Giants). Taylor forward will help Hawkins more than Vardy or Kersten.

The outcome of this? We'll once again field a competitive team. Our look will be a lot more like Giants next year than the Swans in my opinion.

 

[catempire]

Definitely not saying he wasn't a good player - because he very clearly was. Just I don't rate him up there with Ablett or even Hocking, and I don't think he was going to get any better than he was. He wasn't this great key forward that was robbed of a career; he'd already had the best part of nine seasons before the broken leg occurred.

Bit surprised in your Stoneham views. He could get 20+ possessions, 10 marks and kick 4 goals playing as a high CHF. He was a gun.

Stoneham >> Mooney >>>>> Graham

 

[Partridge]

Bit surprised in your Stoneham views. He could get 20+ possessions, 10 marks and kick 4 goals playing as a high CHF. He was a gun.

Stoneham >> Mooney >>>>> Graham

At his best no doubt. More to the view that the 1994 injury robbed him of a career. It didn't.

 

[Bobby_]

At his best no doubt. More to the view that the 1994 injury robbed him of a career. It didn't.

He could kick 50 metres without any issues before the leg injury.
He struggled to kick the same distance when he returned.

He was smack bang in the middle of his peak as a footballer (26 yrs & 150 games).
When he returned to the game two years later, he was averaging just 3.7 marks per game which is a far cry from what he was putting up before the injury.
Simply a shell of himself but he also had the heart and courage to back it up on a footy field.

 

[Larry Donohue]

When he was capable of that, neither Demons nor Lions were in the hunt.

But none of them had cats list and clark hawk combo in the very short time were lethal (without any matthews pun intended). How quickly we forget

 

[Larry Donohue]

At his best no doubt. More to the view that the 1994 injury robbed him of a career. It didn't.

He could have been as good as carey without it. It certainly did rob him of his potential. A more mobile carey.

 

[Partridge]

He could have been as good as carey without it. It certainly did rob him of his potential. A more mobile carey.

Nup. Sorry, no way. Carey was easily his superior.

 

[Seeds]

Bit surprised in your Stoneham views. He could get 20+ possessions, 10 marks and kick 4 goals playing as a high CHF. He was a gun.

Stoneham >> Mooney >>>>> Graham

But he only ever kicked 39 goals in a season like graham. Wasn't average the term you used for that?

 

[Pollywaffle]

Bit surprised in your Stoneham views. He could get 20+ possessions, 10 marks and kick 4 goals playing as a high CHF. He was a gun.

Stoneham >> Mooney >>>>> Graham

Yep. injury definitely cruelled his career. I don't think he was 'done 'at all when it happened. Very mobile for a KPP. Afterwards had the turning circle of the QE2 and couldn't kick over a traffic cone.

Disagree on one point..I would have Graham above Mooney.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

Definitely not saying he wasn't a good player - because he very clearly was. Just I don't rate him up there with Ablett or even Hocking, and I don't think he was going to get any better than he was. He wasn't this great key forward that was robbed of a career; he'd already had the best part of nine seasons before the broken leg occurred.

I'll say it......he wasn't a good player, and if the stories I've heard over the years are remotely true, he wasn't welcoming to youngsters on his day either

 

[Partridge]

I'll say it......he wasn't a good player, and if the stories I've heard over the years are remotely true, he wasn't welcoming to youngsters on his day either

I'd say good to very good, little inconsistent, absolute gun on his day. Wasn't consistently a major goalkicker though.

He may not have been overly welcoming to youngsters (first I've heard of it), but he wouldn't have been alone in that era.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

He may not have been overly welcoming to youngsters (first I've heard of it), but he wouldn't have been alone in that era.

Indeed. That particular group weren't the greatest bunch of blokes

 

[Larry Donohue]

Nup. Sorry, no way. Carey was easily his superior.

Yes as i said. However, Baz was cut very short. Great hands. Played brilliantly back and forward and in ruck, which wayne the anthony stevens drain could not do. He was a dominant force who never reaced his potential was Barry. Mobility, marking power, a strong kick, and a redhead. The only thing red on carey was his neck.
Carey overrated. Never had the skill of gaz snr.
Plus he is a very ordinary individual.
Big and strong and skilled and bone headed doesnt cut it for mine

 

[Partridge]

Yes as i said. However, Baz was cut very short. Great hands. Played brilliantly back and forward and in ruck, which wayne the anthony stevens drain could not do. He was a dominant force who never reaced his potential was Barry. Mobility, marking power, a strong kick, and a redhead. The only thing red on carey was his neck.
Carey overrated. Never had the skill of gaz snr.
Plus he is a very ordinary individual.
Big and strong and skilled and bone headed doesnt cut it for mine

I'd love to know what being a redhead has to do with football output. Utterly irrelevant. I'd love to know what kind of person they are has to do with football output. Even more irrelevant.

Carey overrated? Now I've heard it all. Stoneham's highest number of goals in a season was 39. Carey exceeded that eight times. And in seven of them he kicked 60 goals or more, from centre half forward too. But yeah, he's overrated.

I'll take big, strong, and skilled every day of the week with Carey's output. In a heartbeat.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Stoneham was a good player - but take him out and put Carey at CHF for the Cats and ..........

Geelong flag 92 - would have been 6 goals up at half time - and wouldnt have fallen in a heap in the 2nd half

Geelong 93 flag - would have romped it in - in a very weak year comp wise

Geelong flag 97 - again not a strong year

1989 - was Carey about in 89 - if he was - then another Geelong flag

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

Wowee, I'm all for rose tinted glasses when discussing Geelong players, but Carey was that far ahead of Stoneham it's not funny. This is a guy that is almost unanimously rated in the top 5 to ever play the game; and quite often at number 1. I liked and rated Stoneham, but Carey was on another level completely.

Also, in terms of Ablett vs Carey, I'm not sure I'd go down the 'ordinary individual' path (which is irrelevant to their footballing ability anyway). I'll leave that there, but I think most would see where I'm headed with this..

 

[Larry Donohue]

I'd love to know what being a redhead has to do with football output. Utterly irrelevant. I'd love to know what kind of person they are has to do with football output. Even more irrelevant.

Carey overrated? Now I've heard it all. Stoneham's highest number of goals in a season was 39. Carey exceeded that eight times. And in seven of them he kicked 60 goals or more, from centre half forward too. But yeah, he's overrated.

I'll take big, strong, and skilled every day of the week with Carey's output. In a heartbeat.

You work yourself up p. I enjoy you on a passionate rant.
Surely you see the Geelong redhead relationship and can see the redneck humour re wayne. His paddock would have given gaz 200 per year.
Stonehams career would have been revered had he not been injured.
But by all means fire up again.

 

[Larry Donohue]

Wowee, I'm all for rose tinted glasses when discussing Geelong players, but Carey was that far ahead of Stoneham it's not funny. This is a guy that is almost unanimously rated in the top 5 to ever play the game; and quite often at number 1. I liked and rated Stoneham, but Carey was on another level completely.

Also, in terms of Ablett vs Carey, I'm not sure I'd go down the 'ordinary individual' path (which is irrelevant to their footballing ability anyway). I'll leave that there, but I think most would see where I'm headed with this..

Best 5 In my view
1. ABLETT Snr
2. LEIGH MATTHEWS
3. IAN STEWART
4. POLLY FARMER
5. BOBBY SKILTON

WOULD ALSO PLACE OTHERS AHEAD OF CAREY
WHITTEN
HARVEY
VOSS
HIRD
QUINLAN

to name a few

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

Best 5 In my view
1. ABLETT Snr
2. LEIGH MATTHEWS
3. IAN STEWART
4. POLLY FARMER
5. BOBBY SKILTON

WOULD ALSO PLACE OTHERS AHEAD OF CAREY
WHITTEN
HARVEY
VOSS
HIRD
QUINLAN

to name a few

Disagree with a few there and didn't get to see a few others, but each to their own and all that

 

[DanA]

Best 5 In my view
1. ABLETT Snr
2. LEIGH MATTHEWS
3. IAN STEWART
4. POLLY FARMER
5. BOBBY SKILTON

WOULD ALSO PLACE OTHERS AHEAD OF CAREY
WHITTEN
HARVEY
VOSS
HIRD
QUINLAN

to name a few

I'd have Carey, Jnr & Plugga as 3, 4 & 5 on that list.

 

[Partridge]

I'd have Carey, Jnr & Plugga as 3, 4 & 5 on that list.

I'd probably work Greg Williams in there somewhere too.

 

[Partridge]

You work yourself up p. I enjoy you on a passionate rant.
Surely you see the Geelong redhead relationship and can see the redneck humour re wayne. His paddock would have given gaz 200 per year.
Stonehams career would have been revered had he not been injured.
But by all means fire up again.

Much less than you think.

What is enjoyable is watching Stoneham and the other buffoon in Brownless try and excuse their non-achievements now. Try and play a drinking game around the words "Eagles" and "state team", you'll be hammered very quickly.

 

[Cataholic]

Much less than you think.

What is enjoyable is watching Stoneham and the other buffoon in Brownless try and excuse their non-achievements now. Try and play a drinking game around the words "Eagles" and "state team", you'll be hammered very quickly.

Trying the word 'powder' might be interesting too.........

 

[Seeds]

He would not have made any difference as our problems were never up forward, it was down back where we constantly allowed big forwards to kick bags in finals and grand finals. Carey was never a typical defender, he would drift down there to lend support but guys like Sumich, Kernahan and then some truly brilliant rovers like Williams, Matera . . . they always tore us a new one and turned games in the space of a quarter. Ablett & Brownless, it didn't get much better than that as a combo.

Problem was after 1990 Ablett, stoneham and brownless rarely played as a forward combo. In 1991 Ablett retired and was a shadow of himself on return. 1992 was probably the only other season although Ablett spent a lot of time up the ground and on the ball. 1993 stoneham was playing injured for most of it (save for his devastating last four games) and brownelss had a form slump that saw him in the seconds for a lot of the season. 1994 stoneham missed the first 12 weeks and then only played a handball of games before breaking his leg. 1995 stoneham out with a broken leg. 1996 stoneham back but a shadow of his former self and brownless and Ablett both on their last legs.