Opinion The Collingwood Versus Port Adelaide Jumper Debate continues...

[El_Scorcho]

Isn't your SANFL team representative of the club's history? They wear the prison bar strip every week.
Celebrate your SANFL history in the SANFL and your AFL history in the AFL.

It's club history, and given we've already worn them 5 times at AFL level, it's also AFL history.

The agreement never stipulated that Heritage Round would continue to be held on an annual basis, so how is the agreement in bad faith?
If the AFL wanted to change the frequency of Heritage Round from annual to it being held every 20 years, how does this make the agreement null and void?

Go and ask your year 10 legal studies teacher about bad faith.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Here come the irrelevant soccer comparisons. We all know Newcastle United, Juventus and Udinese all wear black and white vertical stripes. This is great new for Port as you can wear the prison bar strip if you enter a team in the Premier League or Serie A.

Guess what? The AFL places a greater value on the identity of its clubs than all of those soccer leagues.

What about literally every other sport?

 

[parano1a]

That's a pretty bad gotcha given members of Gen Z would have attended games in 1996.

So anyone 26 or under associates Port with teal and Collingwood with black and white? In ten years time, that age rises to 36 and so on.
Nobody is disputing that black and white stripes are associated with Port's past, but teal is your future.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

So anyone 26 or under associates Port with teal and Collingwood with black and white? In ten years time, that age rises to 36 and so on.
Nobody is disputing that black and white stripes are associated with Port's past, but teal is your future.

So what you are saying is that us wearing the bars in the AFL hasnt affected the association between Collingwood and Black and White at all.

Good to know.

 

[Suspense]

This is demonstrably false.

How so?

 

[Festerz]

Every club has changed their guernsey.

Port had no black and white originally.

Port adopted the black and white jumper 120 years ago FFS. At a time when most Aussie rules footy teams were wearing baggy caps and knickerbockers.

Haven't checked the records but pretty sure no one is alive today who saw them play in anything other than black and white until they entered the AFL. And they entered the AFL on the basis of their unrivalled success wearing the black and white prison bars.

Seriously, are we still using that BS - 'they used to wear blue and white' argument? It's juvenile.

 

[El_Scorcho]

So anyone 26 or under associates Port with teal and Collingwood with black and white? In ten years time, that age rises to 36 and so on.
Nobody is disputing that black and white stripes are associated with Port's past, but teal is your future.

Actually when Port wore the bars at AFL level for the 5th time the entire AFL world forgot Collingwood existed like Julianne Moore's child in The Forgotten. If only someone had warned us!

 

[LoungeLizard]

Port adopted the black and white jumper 120 years ago FFS. At a time when most Aussie rules footy teams were wearing baggy caps and knickerbockers.

Haven't checked the records but pretty sure no one is alive today who saw them play in anything other than black and white until they entered the AFL. And they entered the AFL on the basis of their unrivalled success wearing the black and white prison bars.

Seriously, are we still using that BS - 'they used to wear blue and white' argument? It's juvenile.

Try reading the quote I responded to, juvenile is you jumping in thinking you know what's going on.

Go read them, see how you go.

 

[Pappagallo]

Are you trying to say that your heritage should only include what everybody has seen?

So only modern heritage then?

How about black, white, teal and silver?

Classic burn!

 

[bomberclifford]

How so?

All those real world examples where it be so.

 

[Monco Matt]

If we want to talk about "Heritage" jumpers then we need to talk about AFL heritage, not VFL or SANFL or WAFL or any other state league competition.

The AFL was founded in 1990. Collingwood was a foundation AFL club, Port Adelaide was not, they joined in 1997. Collingwood came into the AFL with Black & White stripes, Port came in with some horrible, Black, Teal & White lightning bolt messy pile of puke. That is their "Heritage" jumper, so bloody well wear that crap!! Leave our stripes alone.

So, to Kochy, Dangerfield and all the muppets on SEN........piss off!

 

[jdeezy]

That's the Suns away strip and it has distinctive colours from WCE home strip.

Come on. You're one of the few Collingwood supporters I've read in this thread who is actually making their case in a sensible way and not in a "we was here first why don't youse go back to the SANFL" way, don't dilute that by genuinely trying to argue with me that Port in a Guernsey with black and white stripes creates brand confusion with Collingwood in a Guernsey with black and white stripes but Gold Coast in a mid-blue Guernsey with yellow numbers and detailing and a club logo in the centre has "distinctive colours" vs a West Coast in a mid-blue Guernsey with yellow numbers and detailing and a club logo in the centre. Christ, their name is even easily confused since they both have Coast in them. If any club was going to argue "damage to the IP" it should be them, but it's not because they clearly realise, like the rest of us, that is not an issue.



Meanwhile, the tribalism argument makes sense somewhat, but I still don't see how having a 2nd team with black and white stops this. We won't get another EPL example, so let's look to the NBA instead:

You can't genuinely argue with me that the crowds are that distinct. Yes it's a bit of a different yellow. Yes there's purple in one and blue in the other. But both are predominately yellow crowds. Both brands are doing fine - even when the actual players aren't even wearing those colours. Collingwood will survive with Port fans getting around in black and white too.

Hell, promote the hell out of Collingwood and Port matches as black and white nights. Have the losing team have to wear a proper clash guernsey for the next game (no more silver from Port, no more white on black from Collingwood). Build on the idea of two strong black and white teams from two seperate competitions coming together, don't shy away from it.

 

[Monco Matt]

Or, I'm ok with Port wearing this sexy little number which apparently is their real SANFL "Heritage" jumper

 

[LoungeLizard]

Or, I'm ok with Port wearing this sexy little number which apparently is their real SANFL "Heritage" jumper


View attachment 1472183

It costs too much for the dye.

 

[Suspense]

All those real world examples where it be so.

Such as?

 

[Pappagallo]

Such as?

Amazingly Man U and Liverpool are worth about $4 Billion each despite both wearing plain red shirts. I would’ve expected one if not both to be in administration by now!

 

[Suspense]

If any club was going to argue "damage to the IP" it should be them, but it's not because they clearly realise, like the rest of us, that is not an issue.

Disagree. AFL marketing and management would definitely be hesitant in making a change that would result in two teams having black and white stripes for their home uniform.

Meanwhile, the tribalism argument makes sense somewhat, but I still don't see how having a 2nd team with black and white stops this.

It doesn't stop it - it dilutes it.

Both brands are doing fine - even when the actual players aren't even wearing those colours. Collingwood will survive with Port fans getting around in black and white too.

It's not about whether the brands are "doing fine" or whether "they will survive" - the question is - does such a change dilute the distinctiveness of the IP within the competition?

 

[Suspense]

Amazingly Man U and Liverpool are worth about $4 Billion each despite both wearing plain red shirts. I would’ve expected one if not both to be in administration by now!

That's nice but irrelevant. Any actual evidence that a change in uniform to be less distinctive results in an increase in the net value of both clubs' IP?

 

[Festerz]

If we want to talk about "Heritage" jumpers then we need to talk about AFL heritage, not VFL or SANFL or WAFL or any other state league competition.

The AFL was founded in 1990. Collingwood was a foundation AFL club, Port Adelaide was not, they joined in 1997. Collingwood came into the AFL with Black & White stripes, Port came in with some horrible, Black, Teal & White lightning bolt messy pile of puke. That is their "Heritage" jumper, so bloody well wear that crap!! Leave our stripes alone.

So, to Kochy, Dangerfield and all the muppets on SEN........piss off!

Do you really want to go down the path of the history of how and why the VFL was so desperate to create a national competition?

Why the VFL Commission was so keen to see Port Adelaide enter the expanded VFL in the first place?

The debate about Port Adelaide wearing its traditional prison bars jumper, that it has worn for 120 years in the SANFL is all about history. And why it matters. Because if the fabric of footy counts for anything then the history of the clubs, their suburbs and their people is surely worth taking account of?

Arguing that the history of one club founded in Port Adelaide 152 years ago is less worthy than one founded in Collingwood 130 years ago makes zero sense if we are serious about the AFL being a national competition.

An intelligent person would surely see that allowing Port Adelaide to wear their traditional and cherished prison bars jumper in games against their hated rival of Adelaide at Adelaide Oval poses no threat to Collingwood. In fact it elevates the history and traditions of our national game.

Finding an intelligent person at AFL House who understands the sheer logic of that seems to be the real issue here. But let's be honest. It ain't logic, commonsense or integrity of the competition that matters at AFL House is it?

 

[yodellinhank]

What's wrong with the club minimising teal? The supporters hate it, it represents the compromise foisted upon the club in the 1990s (is there a more 90s colour?) when it was teal or oblivion. It also just looks plain garbage as anything other than a minimal tertiary colour.

Why would people want a club and its supporters to wear a colour that they don't want and haven't embraced? There is some weird perverted pleasure that Victorians get from seeing Port in teal that I just don't understand. Just let our club choose how they want to be represented.

Just once a year, hey?

 

[bomberclifford]

That's nice but irrelevant. Any actual evidence that a change in uniform to be less distinctive results in an increase in the net value of both clubs' IP?

Nice attempt to flip the argument.

The evidence is that the two biggest brands in Premier League both wear red.
Clearly their brands have not been diluted.

 

[JackFlash]

They should be able to wear the prison bars in a home Showdown game once a year, incorparte some teal in some small way around the collar or arms? One thing they should definitely do is rid themselves of that horrible grey away strip they wear, why isn't that a prison bars strip with teal? Port has been a lost team for 25 years, they have not accepted the fact that they are part of the national competition and all ties with the SANFL need to be severed. They have a great home strip that Kochie is not proud of, it's bizarre how Port Adelaide is reluctant to build their AFL heritage and continue with this nonsense. The AFL should allow them to play once a year in their strip from another competition, once a year won't hurt, it's ridiculous and as long as they don't wear it in any other game, who cares?

 

[yodellinhank]

Nice attempt to flip the argument.

The evidence is that the two biggest brands in Premier League both wear red.
Clearly their brands have not been diluted.

They have. If a casual observer flicking through channels and see a soccer match, they wouldn't be able to tell you who was playing. Only people who follow it more closely can pick the crests or the sponsors. But everyone can tell you which team is Ferrari in the F1.

 

[melanChronic]

Just once a year, hey?

Not if it were up to me.

But the realities of the situation mean I understand why the club has to seek the compromise of a couple of games a year. Unfortunately, Collingwood (and many in Victoria) seem to think giving Port nothing except an alternate colour scheme is a compromise.

Port fans should be free to say what they actually want for their club without Victorian "slippery slope" insecurities then giving them nothing out of fear/spite. The club is proposing a compromise to Collingwood. They just won't even come to the table and rather slide out disingenuous solutions to the Melbourne media.

 

[tigerwill]

Contrary to popular opinion, the “Prison bar” jumper has undergone changes over the years
Fact: the prison bar jumper hasn’t been worn for 120 years as some have claimed. There have been different designs since 1902

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