The POOP thread: Players Out Of Position

[Bunk Moreland]

Does this happen at all clubs? I dunno, it just seems to me like we have an inordinate number of players who we’re trying to screw into unnatural positions.

Hooker - AA back moved because we had key forward issues

Langford - seems to play his best as a mobile marking forward, yet we persist with him as a midfielder

Stringer - AA forward who for some reason we’re trying to play in the midfield.

And it’s something that seems to have happened a fair bit in our recent history.

Hurley - was persisted as a forward for some time despite looking best down back for limited periods

Carlisle - looked uttery dominant at CHB at times, so we moved him forward (and even into the ruck ffs). Left.

Ryder - spent a few years at CHB and as a key forward before finally being played where he should have been, in the ruck.

Cummings - a gun young forward, who could forget Sheedy playing him at CHB. Left to become a Coleman Medallist.

Salmon - a very, very good forward but Sheedy flatly refused to give him time in the ruck. Left to become a very good ruckman.

The only player I can really think of who was thrown around with success was Scott Lucas, who was very good both back and forward.

I know there is a fair element of trusting the coaches, but s**t it’s frustrating as a fan. I’d love to just see all our players put into their best positions and we could just see what happens - if it doesn’t work... ok, we tried it.

Any other examples? Is this a uniquely Essendon thing?

 

[eDPS]

Not sure if Houli qualifies, he mostly played midfield for us im pretty sure

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Not sure if Houli qualifies, he mostly played midfield for us im pretty sure

Yep, good one - not really a winner of his own ball so wasn’t an effective mid.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

Alwyn Davey at CHF, right?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Alwyn Davey at CHF, right?

Haha, yep I nearly added that.

 

[Doss]

Ryder barely qualifies to be honest. He was tried at CHB a little bit very early on, and very occasionally pinch-hit there later (I remember him blanketing Cloke a couple of times, when he was impossible to beat one-on-one), but he always played most of his time as a ruck.

 

[eDPS]

Ryder barely qualifies to be honest. He was tried at CHB a little bit but he always played most of his time as a ruck.

Thought he was pretty decent down back as well

 

[Zach Package]

Thought he was pretty decent down back as well

Ryder could have been all Australian at either end, unfortunately he’s a pea hearted mental midget

 

[Gumby2Hurley]

Would love seeing Stringer get the 3rd or 4th best defender in a forwardline of Walla/Raz/Hooker/Stewart/Daniher.

 

[boncer34]

Ryder barely qualifies to be honest. He was tried at CHB a little bit very early on, and very occasionally pinch-hit there later (I remember him blanketing Cloke a couple of times, when he was impossible to beat one-on-one), but he always played most of his time as a ruck.

And to be fair Hille was a good ruckman before the knee.

 

[Rack Watts]

Scott Lucas at CHB

 

[Doss]

Scott Lucas at CHB

He was a gun at CHB though.

 

[Rack Watts]

He was a gun at CHB though.

Still out of position, all of his passes from CHB were just shots at goal.

 

[CBombers17]

Didn't we move on Cummings to get Lloyd?

 

[JDavey]

Does this happen at all clubs? I dunno, it just seems to me like we have an inordinate number of players who we’re trying to screw into unnatural positions.

Hooker - AA back moved because we had key forward issues

Langford - seems to play his best as a mobile marking forward, yet we persist with him as a midfielder

Stringer - AA forward who for some reason we’re trying to play in the midfield.

And it’s something that seems to have happened a fair bit in our recent history.

Hurley - was persisted as a forward for some time despite looking best down back for limited periods

Carlisle - looked uttery dominant at CHB at times, so we moved him forward (and even into the ruck ffs). Left.

Ryder - spent a few years at CHB and as a key forward before finally being played where he should have been, in the ruck.

Cummings - a gun young forward, who could forget Sheedy playing him at CHB. Left to become a Coleman Medallist.

Salmon - a very, very good forward but Sheedy flatly refused to give him time in the ruck. Left to become a very good ruckman.

The only player I can really think of who was thrown around with success was Scott Lucas, who was very good both back and forward.

I know there is a fair element of trusting the coaches, but s**t it’s frustrating as a fan. I’d love to just see all our players put into their best positions and we could just see what happens - if it doesn’t work... ok, we tried it.

Any other examples? Is this a uniquely Essendon thing?

Lots of teams towards the bottom of the ladder force 'best 22' in by playing them out of position. We have done that a tonne during the last 15 years of squalor, maybe more so then most due to circumstance or coaching style. We had excess KPP that were all talented so we'd force them in the side by playing them out of their optimal position. You'll see other clubs do the same this year - a great example will be Preuss who will be played as a forward despite clearly destined to be a #1 ruck. Collingwood has moved Moore down back (although they are stuffed at both ends TBH). Cats played Taylor in the forward line all last year.

The best example for us was Hooker, Hurley, Carlisle - all should be in our best 22, all should've been at CHB. Something has to give.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Lots of teams towards the bottom of the ladder force 'best 22' in by playing them out of position. We have done that a tonne during the last 15 years of squalor, maybe more so then most due to circumstance or coaching style. We had excess KPP that were all talented so we'd force them in the side by playing them out of their optimal position. You'll see other clubs do the same this year - a great example will be Preuss who will be played as a forward despite clearly destined to be a #1 ruck. Collingwood has moved Moore down back (although they are stuffed at both ends TBH). Cats played Taylor in the forward line all last year.

The best example for us was Hooker, Hurley, Carlisle - all should be in our best 22, all should've been at CHB. Something has to give.

I would’ve loved to have seen Hooker, Hurley and Carlisle in the backline. Two beast key backs and one rebounding, which they’re all capable of. I dunno, guess I’m missing something.

 

[blitzer]

Does this happen at all clubs? I dunno, it just seems to me like we have an inordinate number of players who we’re trying to screw into unnatural positions.

Hooker - AA back moved because we had key forward issues

Langford - seems to play his best as a mobile marking forward, yet we persist with him as a midfielder

Stringer - AA forward who for some reason we’re trying to play in the midfield.

And it’s something that seems to have happened a fair bit in our recent history.

Hurley - was persisted as a forward for some time despite looking best down back for limited periods

Carlisle - looked uttery dominant at CHB at times, so we moved him forward (and even into the ruck ffs). Left.

Ryder - spent a few years at CHB and as a key forward before finally being played where he should have been, in the ruck.

Cummings - a gun young forward, who could forget Sheedy playing him at CHB. Left to become a Coleman Medallist.

Salmon - a very, very good forward but Sheedy flatly refused to give him time in the ruck. Left to become a very good ruckman.

The only player I can really think of who was thrown around with success was Scott Lucas, who was very good both back and forward.

I know there is a fair element of trusting the coaches, but s**t it’s frustrating as a fan. I’d love to just see all our players put into their best positions and we could just see what happens - if it doesn’t work... ok, we tried it.

Any other examples? Is this a uniquely Essendon thing?

It does have to be noted that some of these examples are exactly what the players themselves want plus team needs are important. If you have 3 gun key position players but they are all defenders and all your forwards are crap then I bet there's not a coach alive that wouldn't contemplate converting one of them into a forward.

Hooker has publically said he wants to play forward and considering he kicked approximately 40 goals last year he's certainly doing pretty well up forward. I agree he might be a bit better down back but he's no mug up forward either. That was with a very limited preseason too - could easily be better this year.

Hurley up forward was a mistake although not as big of one as some people make it out to be. Hurley actually had a fair degree of success at times playing forward early in his career. In his first year he kicked 4 goals to help us beat the Hawks to get into the finals. He never got back his strong marking after his wrist injuries. I think it was certainly worth a go and at the time we only really had Hooker, Carlisle, Hurley as options with Joe really young and before he was even on the list.

Ryder down back wasn't a mistake at all. He was a young ruck that wasn't ready to play in the ruck full time yet, so they let him develop for a year at CHB. He did great, didn't he finish like second in the rising star that year? So yeah not a mistake, just part of his early development before he was physically ready to play ruck.

Langford wants to be a midfielder I'm sure. He's just not that good at the role. He also probably won't make the best 22 as a forward right now (debatable).

Can't call Stringer in the midfield a mistake until we actually try it. If he can regularly get 4-5 clearances, kick 2 goals and grab 15 possessions each game mixing it between forward and midfield I think he can still be really useful through the midfield. Don't think he's on the path to becoming the next Dangerfield or Ablett but that doesn't mean he can't improve an area of weakness for us.

 

[Yoda_]

Ryder could have been all Australian at either end, unfortunately he’s a pea hearted mental midget

I want to re visit this comment at years end

 

[eth-dog]

Langford is 100% a midfielder. Hooker also kicked 40 goals as a key forward last year, and even when we were down to only Hartley and Hurley down back he stayed as a forward. Why would he move to defence now that we have Ambrose and Brown back there on top of that? Is it because we have Stringer? Hell no, Jake isn't a key forward.

 

[monty1104]

Aaron Henemann on the field...

 

[DERO]

Joel Reynolds on Fevola.

 

[jmoo wan]

hehe. poop.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Langford is 100% a midfielder. Hooker also kicked 40 goals as a key forward last year, and even when we were down to only Hartley and Hurley down back he stayed as a forward. Why would he move to defence now that we have Ambrose and Brown back there on top of that? Is it because we have Stringer? Hell no, Jake isn't a key forward.

Langford 100% isn’t a midfielder.

Ambrose is decent but undersized to take the main key forward. Brown isn’t up to it as a key back.

Stringer is far closer to a key forward than any other position. That’s exactly where he’s played his best footy and has an AA to his name. To say he isn’t a key forward is ridiculous.

 

[eth-dog]

Langford 100% isn’t a midfielder.

Ambrose is decent but undersized to take the main key forward. Brown isn’t up to it as a key back.

Stringer is far closer to a key forward than any other position. That’s exactly where he’s played his best footy and has an AA to his name. To say he isn’t a key forward is ridiculous.

Langford played his best football last season and the season before as a midfielder. Is it any surprise that when he was out of form and got dropped early, he was playing as a forward? That's what got me confused about the "Langford must only play as a forward" brigade. He's played better playing as a midfielder than as a forward, not the reverse that you seem to think.

Ambrose can't take the Hawkins of the world, however Hartley can and Brown is good depth. Ambrose is best used against the likes of Tom Lynch, Jack Riewoldt et al.

His AA year was when he was playing as a 3rd tall, either Redpath or Boyd were playing the role you seem to want Stringer to take and in the past 2 years that's what the Bulldogs have wanted him to do, and lo and behold he struggled in it. To say he is a key forward is ridiculous.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Langford played his best football last season and the season before as a midfielder. Is it any surprise that when he was out of form and got dropped early, he was playing as a forward? That's what got me confused about the "Langford must only play as a forward" brigade. He's played better playing as a midfielder than as a forward, not the reverse that you seem to think.

Ambrose can't take the Hawkins of the world, however Hartley can and Brown is good depth. Ambrose is best used against the likes of Tom Lynch, Jack Riewoldt et al.

His AA year was when he was playing as a 3rd tall, either Redpath or Boyd were playing the role you seem to want Stringer to take and in the past 2 years that's what the Bulldogs have wanted him to do, and lo and behold he struggled in it. To say he is a key forward is ridiculous.

A team can’t have more than one key forward? Of course we’d play him alongside Daniher.

A third tall? Boyd and Redpath were bit-part players in 2015 and played about half a season each. Stringer spent most of the season deep forward, isolated with his opponent as a marking, one-out target. If you don’t want to label that a key forward then that’s for you.