List Mgmt. Trade & F/A - 2020

[sr36]

Another Gridiron term has entered the AFL vernacular

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Bloody memeologists.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Better than Gaz? Equal with Lethal? Pendles in rare air

Collingwood skipper Scott Pendlebury's 11th top-three finish in the B&F has him in illustrious company

www.afl.com.au

If Pendles is just an average midfielder making up the numbers then we are in dire straits. Clearly still our best midfielder, stats in this article say he is still elite. This year he was either being tagged or taking the opposition best mid at stoppages and doing a bloody good job at it.

Truly amazing how much criticm elite players get, the other amusing one is the whipping boys, Aish took over from Blair but now he's gone we'll miss him so much. Just an average footballer, don't think we'll miss him, still didn't deserve the negative comments he received.

Anyway getting back to Pendles, I have been around for awhile Daicos was the best player I have seen, Pendles I rate second. Looking forward to another consistent 2020. It's clear because he isn't explosive or if he doesn't get it 35 times he's had a bad one. I'd have Pendles 25 versus Dangerfields 35 every day of the week. Fantastic player is Dangerfield but his disposal is average. But because danger is explosive he is talked about as the best.

In closing Pendles is a gun.

Don't count me among the Aish critics. I liked him in defence and thought he displayed some courage at times for a supposedly outside player. I was with Dave on this one as a slightly less passionate Aish supporter. I won't boo him. I hope he excels because he was not given much choice other than leave. I will feel more benign towards Fremantle now he is playing with them.

I would be more inclined to be critical of Sidebottom the last few years rather than Pendlebury. He didn't seem to flourish in the pressure of GF football, unlike 2010 when he was a star in our GF appearances.

 

[Thatsmyname]

Bloody memeologists.

And they always get the weather wrong

 

[Horaceg]

I know the eyes can deceive it when I watch Scott okay live I see him being a great general.

leads, directs, plays well.
great captain from observing live.

Sets the standard off the park also.

 

[sr36]

I thought I was the only one who wasn't stupid

Sorry, but I think you're showing that you are another one who is stupid, if you think that last year's pick only had two alternatives - Beams or academy points towards Quaynor.

Here's a very feasible alternative scenario:
Last year's draft was more highly rated than this year's, plus factor in the premium for being able to use the pick immediately, I have very little doubt that we could have found a club to trade our last year's first for a future first. We could have gone into this trade period without Beams on the list, but with Pick 17 and a future first - let's say pick 12. GWS traded Pick 12 and 18 for pick 6...

I'm not criticising the trade. I'm just criticising the theory that last year's first had little value as we weren't going to take it to the draft.

If your mentality is to go as hard as possible to win now and worry about the future later, that trade was worth the punt. I personally wouldn't go that way myself, but that's a philosophy difference.

 

[Thatsmyname]

Sorry, but I think you're showing that you are another one who is stupid

 

[Nuwanda]

View attachment 768313

I wish I could double ‘like’ this

 

[cityslick1]

If I may, I’d like to say that I have mixed emotions about the clubs lack of comms since the end of season.

Whilst selfishly I’d like to know more about our list changes / delistings and trading / drafting strategy in real time and even just in general, I get the club’s desire to be meticulous and put the player first, ahead of transparency with fans. Hence waiting to be absolutely sure who can still fit in to the 2020 list / cap, given what has already - and what is still - to play out, in the coming days / weeks. Mostly re contract negotiations, and player availability in the draft.

We obv walk to the beat of our own drum, and don’t care for the timelines set by other clubs. I Dare say Walshy leads with this, who’s MO is to give as little away as possible, and keep virtually everything in house. But I do still think the club can try a bit harder to engage with the fans and give us something... without compromising our position, or disrespecting the players.

I don’t count the interview of Ned Guy as more than a token / brief non-club driven Q+A where Ned would’ve been given a high five from Walshy for giving away Nothing. So Where’s the summarizing message from the club to fans after trade week, explaining WHY we are keen to move up the draft, or happy to move up next year. Is it for points, is it linked to Reef, do we like a certain few players in this year’s draft. Is it better / worse in our eyes than previous years? Are we v happy with our developing key talls, so don’t feel the need to draft a Jenkins? Are we confident that Sier and Beams will add that inside class next year to alleviate clearance problems. Is Tyler Brown tracking v nicely, so will def feature next year? Is the development of quaynor seen as more than enough to cover Aish? Is Moore def going to continue playing back, and will de goey be trained to take on more midfield minutes, or is forward his go due to forward line chemistry and best laid plans for team structure.

There’s plenty of insight that the club can give, without over-stepping the Mark. But as the world moves to be more interactive, transparent and social media savvy, we seem to be stubbornly happy to regress...

 

[sr36]

View attachment 768313

I may have gone a bit hard with that opening line. Apologies jsdsgn

 

[sr36]

If I may, I’d like to say that I have mixed emotions about the clubs lack of comms since the end of season.

Whilst selfishly I’d like to know more about our list changes / delistings and trading / drafting strategy in real time and even just in general, I get the club’s desire to be meticulous and put the player first, ahead of transparency with fans. Hence waiting to be absolutely sure who can still fit in to the 2020 list / cap, given what has already - and what is still - to play out, in the coming days / weeks. Mostly re contract negotiations, and player availability in the draft.

We obv walk to the beat of our own drum, and don’t care for the timelines set by other clubs. I Dare say Walshy leads with this, who’s MO is to give as little away as possible, and keep virtually everything in house. But I do still think the club can try a bit harder to engage with the fans and give us something... without compromising our position, or disrespecting the players.

I don’t count the interview of Ned Guy as more than a token / brief non-club driven Q+A where Ned would’ve been given a high five from Walshy for giving away Nothing. So Where’s the summarizing message from the club to fans after trade week, explaining WHY we are keen to move up the draft, or happy to move up next year. Is it for points, is it linked to Reef, do we like a certain few players in this year’s draft. Is it better / worse in our eyes than previous years? Are we v happy with our developing key talls, so don’t feel the need to draft a Jenkins? Are we confident that Sier and Beams will add that inside class next year to alleviate clearance problems. Is Tyler Brown tracking v nicely, so will def feature next year? Is the development of quaynor seen as more than enough to cover Aish? Is Moore def going to continue playing back, and will de goey be trained to take on more midfield minutes, or is forward his go due to forward line chemistry and best laid plans for team structure.

There’s plenty of insight that the club can give, without over-stepping the Mark. But as the world moves to be more interactive, transparent and social media savvy, we seem to be stubbornly happy to regress...

With your final line, I'd question the word transparent. A lot more communication is occurring in the modern world, but I'd suggest it's less trustworthy and transparent than it used to be, it's much more managed and shaped than ever before..

Communication by a footy club to fans is an interesting one. Whereas businesses have increased communication and interaction to win over customers, us footy fans are the most loyal customers that a business could have. I'm not sure if they would or should see much benefit from increasing their communication - outside of the standard fluff pieces.

I'd also suggest that in terms of trade and draft, the period is not over yet. We may very well still be trying to trade picks, so it might not yet be the time to lay out strategy before they've finished trying to achieve it. I daresay after the draft, we'll get a short wrap up, but I won't be trusting it's transparency. It's pretty likely to be a Hine style nonsensical ramble about trading out future picks in order to increase flexibility with future academy kids... or some other classic gobbledygook.

 

[Hairydawg]

With your final line, I'd question the word transparent. A lot more communication is occurring in the modern world, but I'd suggest it's less trustworthy and transparent than it used to be, it's much more managed and shaped than ever before..

Communication by a footy club to fans is an interesting one. Whereas businesses have increased communication and interaction to win over customers, us footy fans are the most loyal customers that a business could have. I'm not sure if they would or should see much benefit from increasing their communication - outside of the standard fluff pieces.

I'd also suggest that in terms of trade and draft, the period is not over yet. We may very well still be trying to trade picks, so it might not yet be the time to lay out strategy before they've finished trying to achieve it. I daresay after the draft, we'll get a short wrap up, but I won't be trusting it's transparency. It's pretty likely to be a Hine style nonsensical ramble about trading out future picks in order to increase flexibility with future academy kids... or some other classic gobbledygook.

True - why give away information when you don’t have to, when you know you can open the doors in 2020 and the customers will flood back in? Any information can and will be used against you - eg lowering the market value of players who are seen to be victims of ‘salary squeeze.’ The Chinese walls frustrate me too, big time, but I can see why they are there. We should all just get a life and enjoy the off season and stop analysing stuff, but we can’t, because this is an addiction. We are pumping our veins full of AFL until it makes our foreheads bulge and our partners hate us, and pity us, for not having an off switch. Even Marley Williams has an off switch.

 

[sr36]

True - why give away information when you don’t have to, when you know you can open the doors in 2020 and the customers will flood back in? Any information can and will be used against you - eg lowering the market value of players who are seen to be victims of ‘salary squeeze.’ The Chinese walls frustrate me too, big time, but I can see why they are there. We should all just get a life and enjoy the off season and stop analysing stuff, but we can’t, because this is an addiction. We are pumping our veins full of AFL until it makes our foreheads bulge and our partners hate us, and pity us, for not having an off switch. Even Marley Williams has an off switch.

Is that a euphemism for handcuffs?

 

[ZEV]

Not sure about that Dave.

Cripps smashed him this year and I just don’t like him being a negating type of player.

If they don’t think he is good enough on ball find another position for him in 2020.

For all the good Cripps did smashing Pendles, Pendles did ok the other way, Phillips Sidey and Treloar sliced up their other mids and we came from behind after last break to kick seven goals in the final term....

 

[sr36]

True - why give away information when you don’t have to, when you know you can open the doors in 2020 and the customers will flood back in? Any information can and will be used against you - eg lowering the market value of players who are seen to be victims of ‘salary squeeze.’ The Chinese walls frustrate me too, big time, but I can see why they are there. We should all just get a life and enjoy the off season and stop analysing stuff, but we can’t, because this is an addiction. We are pumping our veins full of AFL until it makes our foreheads bulge and our partners hate us, and pity us, for not having an off switch. Even Marley Williams has an off switch.

Not only are we addicted to the game, but even more addicted to the brand and even if we wanted to change brands - it's socially unacceptable: "I'm no longer barracking for the Pies, they're not communicating well enough - too old-fashioned, I'm switching to Carlton, because I love their interactive way of communicating,- so much more modern."

 

[dansa]

I can’t believe people still mention the Beams trade as a disaster ——without understanding the mechanics.

We would have had to use our first pick on Isaac Quaynor had we kept it meaning it would have gone to waste.

Effectively Beams really only cost us our first pick this year of which will most likely be almost pick 20 when it’s done.
Fremantle got pick 23 as compo for Mayne——let this sink in.

Beams’ Year was ruined with that hip injury.
At the end of 2020 we will know where we stand on the Beams deal but to say it’s failed without taking into account that we still ended up having essentially pick 11 in the same draft and pick 29...whilst adding a player who was coming off a brilliant season 2018—we’d do that deal again.

I can't believe people still assert that our first pick could either have gone to Beams or it was wasted.

There are many players and trade scenarios that are worth 2 first round picks.

Beams past his prime was definitely not one of them.

 

[TW Sherrin]

Their 1st year numbers were almost identical, Lynch ave 2 more disposals and played 4 more games.

Tom Lynch and Darcy Moore AFL Stats Comparison

Tom Lynch and Darcy Moore AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Their 2nd year both played 17 games, Lynch had higher disp 1 more mark per game but less ave goals, less shots on goal, less in50 marks, less inside 50s and lower DE then Moore.

Tom Lynch and Darcy Moore AFL Stats Comparison

Tom Lynch and Darcy Moore AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Year 3 all Moores numbers were trending up, Lynch had injury year playing 8 games but in those was statistically6 inferior to Moores averages.

Tom Lynch and Darcy Moore AFL Stats Comparison

Tom Lynch and Darcy Moore AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

He then got moved to defence.

How many games did suns win in his first 2 years? Wayne Carey wouldve struggled in their forward line.

Moore is a genuine superstar back and I've said that for at least 2 years. He is average as a forward and wasted talent.

 

[frizzle]

How many games did suns win in his first 2 years? Wayne Carey wouldve struggled in their forward line.

Moore is a genuine superstar back and I've said that for at least 2 years. He is average as a forward and wasted talent.

short memories some folks.

 

[cityslick1]

Sorry, but I think you're showing that you are another one who is stupid, if you think that last year's pick only had two alternatives - Beams or academy points towards Quaynor.

Here's a very feasible alternative scenario:
Last year's draft was more highly rated than this year's, plus factor in the premium for being able to use the pick immediately, I have very little doubt that we could have found a club to trade our last year's first for a future first. We could have gone into this trade period without Beams on the list, but with Pick 17 and a future first - let's say pick 12. GWS traded Pick 12 and 18 for pick 6...

I'm not criticising the trade. I'm just criticising the theory that last year's first had little value as we weren't going to take it to the draft.

If your mentality is to go as hard as possible to win now and worry about the future later, that trade was worth the punt. I personally wouldn't go that way myself, but that's a philosophy difference.

I’ll criticize the trade then...

 

[ClaytonM]

short memories some folks.

I don’t doubt he would make a very good KPF. However I do doubt given our current list the team would be better place with Moore playing as a KPF. If we had a Reid (in his prime) alternative to Moore then I would love to see Moore go forward.

Unfortunately we don’t have one. Don’t think the kids who have been in the system 12 months are ready. In a year or two maybe, but not right now.

 

[DWil6]

How many games did suns win in his first 2 years? Wayne Carey wouldve struggled in their forward line.

Moore is a genuine superstar back and I've said that for at least 2 years. He is average as a forward and wasted talent.

It’s legitimately surprising that some think Moore is an average forward given he hasn’t had a chance to prove otherwise. His development as a footballer has been good and it would be hard to believe he couldn’t perform forward or back with success. Mobile and strong marking and a decent kick. If he didn’t have injuries...

 

[frizzle]

I don’t doubt he would make a very good KPF. However I do doubt given our current list the team would be better place with Moore playing as a KPF. If we had a Reid (in his prime) alternative to Moore then I would love to see Moore go forward.

Unfortunately we don’t have one. Don’t think the kids who have been in the system 12 months are ready. In a year or two maybe, but not right now.

Here is the conundrum isn't it? He is our best defender & our best forward.
However one is a lot harder to come by than the other from a list point of view. I don't think they will transfer him forward, but we would be a hell of a lot more dangerous with him forward that's for sure.

 

[loki04]

Here is the conundrum isn't it? He is our best defender & our best forward.
However one is a lot harder to come by than the other from a list point of view. I don't think they will transfer him forward, but we would be a hell of a lot more dangerous with him forward that's for sure.

It's funny as soo many responses tend to rate the defender higher then the forward in importance, yet how many defenders are on over a mil per season and how many fwds. There lies the answer to industry rating of the 2 positions.

Forwards win games defenders save them. Darcy plays as a fwd in our last GF and Mcgovern doesn't mark vs a non compete degoey and we win the flag hell we likely have a bigger score on the board and aren't even in that position.

Defensively we can still be a top 4 unit without darcy as proven when he is out injured, but offensively we are quite a dour side in 19 many 50,60s and 70s points in games rarely at that 90s and 100+.

 

[loki04]

How many games did suns win in his first 2 years? Wayne Carey wouldve struggled in their forward line.

Moore is a genuine superstar back and I've said that for at least 2 years. He is average as a forward and wasted talent.

In Lynchs first 4 years they won, 3, 3, 8 and 10 games.

3 wins isn't any different from what most bottom 2 teams manage each year. In fact iirc they were worse this year in terms of 100+ beltings and only won 3 games.

 

[sr36]

The elephant in the room is if Moore goes forward and performs as well as he did in defence, it'd change our whole attacking system. Do we really want a forward line built around a bloke sho hasn't shown he can stay on the park? As a defender, Howe can slot into his place and Langdon info Howe's.

 

[Johno9911]

Still think Brand (DFA from Hawthorn) would be a solid a pick up for us. 198cm KPD, who while doesn't have the intercepting ability of a Darcy Moore, but provides a solid lock-down option in the event Roughead goes down or needs to be shifted into a ruck/fwd role, should there be other injuries around the ground.

At worse would provide good cheap KPD depth, while the likes of Kelly and Keane continue to develop.