List Mgmt. Trade & F/A - 2020

[Nuwanda]

I still don't get it. You like the different creative thing that they're trying. But it is what you're criticising.

Mate, to put it simply, we have already kept a number of older blokes who aren’t regular players. There is a thing about overdoing it, otherwise lets make it 18 veterans and 18 players under 30.

and of course Dunn will be a 33 yr old coming off 2 consecutive knee recos. What are the chances of him playing top footy. He is a backup only. If Roughhead goes down, don’t we have anyone else that we are willing to give a go? I’d hope he would be 3rd in line at best.

 

[Quicky]

Mate, to put it simply, we have already kept a number of older blokes who aren’t regular players. There is a thing about overdoing it, otherwise lets make it 18 veterans and 18 players under 30.

and of course Dunn will be a 33 yr old coming off 2 consecutive knee recos. What are the chances of him playing top footy. He is a backup only. If Roughhead goes down, don’t we have anyone else that we are willing to give a go? I’d hope he would be 3rd in line at best.

Assuming we bring in Dunn, we have Reid and Dunn as non best 22 senior players ('older blokes'). Depth forward and back. Add Varcoe to that group. That seems reasonable to me.

 

[sr36]

Mate, to put it simply, we have already kept a number of older blokes who aren’t regular players. There is a thing about overdoing it, otherwise lets make it 18 veterans and 18 players under 30.

and of course Dunn will be a 33 yr old coming off 2 consecutive knee recos. What are the chances of him playing top footy. He is a backup only. If Roughhead goes down, don’t we have anyone else that we are willing to give a go? I’d hope he would be 3rd in line at best.

I’m hoping they only take him if he's fully fit by the signing deadline.

 

[ClaytonM]

Why not sign him to the VFL team and a part time coach if his input is that valuable... keep him around and we get a precious list spot open to spend on someone who might actually have a future at AFL level.

Because at the end of the year when Moore goes down he may just be the ‘break glass in emergency’ option we need.

Best case scenario is that if that occurred Kelly, Keane or Tohill are ready to take on the task, but if not the no nonsense veteran is a good option.

Let’s hope he spends the entire year running around in the VFL along with Reid and Varcoe. If that occurs no doubt many will criticise it as a waste of list positions. Others will see it as good list management. Just some like to find fault wherever they can.

 

[Nuwanda]

Because at the end of the year when Moore goes down he may just be the ‘break glass in emergency’ option we need.

Best case scenario is that if that occurred Kelly, Keane or Tohill are ready to take on the task, but if not the no nonsense veteran is a good option.

Let’s hope he spends the entire year running around in the VFL along with Reid and Varcoe. If that occurs no doubt many will criticise it as a waste of list positions. Others will see it as good list management. Just some like to find fault wherever they can.

If he plays the whole season in the VFL I won’t be critical as it means we either have no injuries in the back half to KPP or one of our many younger kids are given game time and performing.
If he doesn’t play many VFL games due to injury, then I think it’s fair to say it was a lesson to be learned.
To be clear, if he hadn’t gone down last year, he is a better player than Roughhead. His kicking is so much better as a minimum. But 2 knee recos for a 33 year old is tough

 

[Quicky]

If he plays the whole season in the VFL I won’t be critical as it means we either have no injuries in the back half to KPP or one of our many younger kids are given game time and performing.
If he doesn’t play many VFL games due to injury, then I think it’s fair to say it was a lesson to be learned.
To be clear, if he hadn’t gone down last year, he is a better player than Roughhead. His kicking is so much better as a minimum. But 2 knee recos for a 33 year old is tough

Dunn's been training so I imagine we have a good handle on when we should expect him back at full fitness. The gamble is on whether his knee goes pop again and how his form is following the injury lay off.

I think there are merits either way, but i'm happy with the clubs decision if they bring him back. When you think of our list composition we have a lot of really inexperienced key position players. You don't want to try developing them without leadership and experience around them imo. Dunn offers that.

 

[Scodog10]

Probably the money. The VFL has a tight salary cap. Signing Dunn to the VFL program would severly limit the VFL players we could bring in. The football department also has a tight cap and Dunn already has coaching responsibilities with the womens team.

That’s a flimsy argument Quick. I mean who cares about those salary caps? If signing Dunn in that capacity gives us a better shot at winning an AFL premiership you do it. We can absorb losing average VFL players and the FD cap can be broken. Hawthorn have done it with Deledio and this solution still allows Dunn to be brought in mid year.

 

[Kappa]

Because at the end of the year when Moore goes down he may just be the ‘break glass in emergency’ option we need.

Best case scenario is that if that occurred Kelly, Keane or Tohill are ready to take on the task, but if not the no nonsense veteran is a good option.

Let’s hope he spends the entire year running around in the VFL along with Reid and Varcoe. If that occurs no doubt many will criticise it as a waste of list positions. Others will see it as good list management. Just some like to find fault wherever they can.

I do not believe for a second there isn't a mature kpp in a state league somewhere who can do better than what a 33 year old Dunn coming off 2 recos can do

 

[TradeDraft]

I do not believe for a second there isn't a mature kpp in a state league somewhere who can do better than what a 33 year old Dunn coming off 2 recos can do

Like Riccardi

 

[sr36]

I do not believe for a second there isn't a mature kpp in a state league somewhere who can do better than what a 33 year old Dunn coming off 2 recos can do

From a purely senior playing perspective, id agree. But depth players don't usually contribute that much to the senior team. They contribute off field and in the VFL. You want someone who can help others develop and cover in the AFL in case of emergency. If his knee is fine come February, he's pretty ideal.

 

[jmac70]

From a purely senior playing perspective, id agree. But depth players don't usually contribute that much to the senior team. They contribute off field and in the VFL. You want someone who can help others develop and cover in the AFL in case of emergency. If his knee is fine come February, he's pretty ideal.

He’s a popular guy. Good for team moral.

 

[Thatsmyname]

Mate, to put it simply, we have already kept a number of older blokes who aren’t regular players. There is a thing about overdoing it, otherwise lets make it 18 veterans and 18 players under 30.

and of course Dunn will be a 33 yr old coming off 2 consecutive knee recos. What are the chances of him playing top footy. He is a backup only. If Roughhead goes down, don’t we have anyone else that we are willing to give a go? I’d hope he would be 3rd in line at best.

Don't think you can go by chronological age with the Dunny can, he seems to defy it, if he's good to go (and that's the only way we'll pick him) then he's more important to us than any VFL hacks

And there is no number 2, we go with midsize defenders on keys after Roughy or maybe give Keane a go but he's untried at that level

 

[Quicky]

That’s a flimsy argument Quick. I mean who cares about those salary caps? If signing Dunn in that capacity gives us a better shot at winning an AFL premiership you do it. We can absorb losing average VFL players and the FD cap can be broken. Hawthorn have done it with Deledio and this solution still allows Dunn to be brought in mid year.

I don't mind the idea of keeping the flexibility to bring Dunn in mid year. I just don't think it's a big deal if we do it early either and there are merits to doing that. He's a good one to have on the track and on the field with our developing keys and can offer better depth than anything we're likely to find elsewhere imo.

 

[legendstatus]

Anyone thinking Dunn is not list worthy don’t know anything about the game !


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[Pragmatic Shill]

Separate to the argument about whether we should re-sign Dunn, I don't really understand why we're waiting until the SSP to sign Dunn given it seems a fait accompli anyway because he was included in the jumper number video and no other eligible player is training with us.

He's going to be signed, so what's the reason for the pissing and fartarsing around? If he does his knee again he goes back on to the LTI list and we take another state leaguer in the mid-season draft.

 

[Black_White]

Separate to the argument about whether we should re-sign Dunn, I don't really understand why we're waiting until the SSP to sign Dunn given it seems a fait accompli anyway because he was included in the jumper number video and no other eligible player is training with us.

He's going to be signed, so what's the reason for the pissing and fartarsing around? If he does his knee again he goes back on to the LTI list and we take another state leaguer in the mid-season draft.

You need to understand how CFC works.
Re-signing Dunn is a feel good story.
A story you put out a couple of days after a negative story about CFC is published.
Feel good stories always trump scandal.
And so we wait.

 

[Nuwanda]

Anyone thinking Dunn is not list worthy don’t know anything about the game !


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I love these statements.
A timely reminder we have ‘greats’ among us!

 

[Scodog10]

I don't mind the idea of keeping the flexibility to bring Dunn in mid year. I just don't think it's a big deal if we do it early either and there are merits to doing that. He's a good one to have on the track and on the field with our developing keys and can offer better depth than anything we're likely to find elsewhere imo.

I’ll come at it another way.

There’s been a few justification posts of what happens if Roughead and Moore go down what then? The real question needs to be what if the guy that lasted 20 minutes into his last comeback from an ACL goes down a week after the close of the SSP in his first pre-season match? How long will it take for him to get up to speed? Generally it’s 12 months post the return from an ACL before a league footballer is “back”. Are we just going to carry him as a reserves player on the senior list for a year?

I’m ok with Dunn getting a spot in 2020 and we will unfortunately suffer a LTI at some point so it should be in the mid season draft that he comes in. I also think it’s average list management to effectively lock it in for him now without at least having a head to head for the spot. Especially when he’ll be 5th to 6th in line when he returns and unlikely to go past the 4 in front of him (Moore, Roughead, Murphy and Keane).

Separate to the argument about whether we should re-sign Dunn, I don't really understand why we're waiting until the SSP to sign Dunn given it seems a fait accompli anyway because he was included in the jumper number video and no other eligible player is training with us.

He's going to be signed, so what's the reason for the pissing and fartarsing around? If he does his knee again he goes back on to the LTI list and we take another state leaguer in the mid-season draft.

They’re holding off in case he goes down prior to the close of the SSP, which he won’t, but if he does I expect we’ll sign one of the VFL boys training with us.

 

[Quicky]

I’ll come at it another way.

There’s been a few justification posts of what happens if Roughead and Moore go down what then? The real question needs to be what if the guy that lasted 20 minutes into his last comeback from an ACL goes down a week after the close of the SSP in his first pre-season match? How long will it take for him to get up to speed? Generally it’s 12 months post the return from an ACL before a league footballer is “back”. Are we just going to carry him as a reserves player on the senior list for a year?

I’m ok with Dunn getting a spot in 2020 and we will unfortunately suffer a LTI at some point so it should be in the mid season draft that he comes in. I also think it’s average list management to effectively lock it in for him now without at least having a head to head for the spot. Especially when he’ll be 5th to 6th in line when he returns and unlikely to go past the 4 in front of him (Moore, Roughead, Murphy and Keane).



They’re holding off in case he goes down prior to the close of the SSP, which he won’t, but if he does I expect we’ll sign one of the VFL boys training with us.

If Dunn is fit and playing in the two's, which seems reasonable by round 1 given the training he is doing, I don't think Dunn is behind Keane or Murphy. I'm not sure the club even see's Murphy as a key defender yet.

You're right that one of the risks is Dunn's form when he returns. It's a challenge when player's return from a long injury layoff. I seems to get widely accepted to just write-off a players 1st year after returning from ACL's. I'm not sure I buy that. I think you can get back and play decent footy.

My bigger concern with another key position on the list is more about how we develop them all in the two's. If they're all fit it'll be difficult. But thinking that through they rarely ever are all fit so maybe that's not a big deal. I actually think in terms of list profile we have more speculative developing keys than is ideal, but it seems we're casting a wide net in the hope one or two come through.

 

[TradeDraft]

Separate to the argument about whether we should re-sign Dunn, I don't really understand why we're waiting until the SSP to sign Dunn given it seems a fait accompli anyway because he was included in the jumper number video and no other eligible player is training with us.

He's going to be signed, so what's the reason for the pissing and fartarsing around? If he does his knee again he goes back on to the LTI list and we take another state leaguer in the mid-season draft.

I think to see how his Knee Goes after the ACL Injury. Comes up Good then Put Him On IF Not then might be someone else

 

[TradeDraft]

You need to understand how CFC works.
Re-signing Dunn is a feel good story.
A story you put out a couple of days after a negative story about CFC is published.
Feel good stories always trump scandal.
And so we wait.

Same with Grundy's Re-Signing

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

I’ll come at it another way.

There’s been a few justification posts of what happens if Roughead and Moore go down what then? The real question needs to be what if the guy that lasted 20 minutes into his last comeback from an ACL goes down a week after the close of the SSP in his first pre-season match? How long will it take for him to get up to speed? Generally it’s 12 months post the return from an ACL before a league footballer is “back”. Are we just going to carry him as a reserves player on the senior list for a year?

I’m ok with Dunn getting a spot in 2020 and we will unfortunately suffer a LTI at some point so it should be in the mid season draft that he comes in. I also think it’s average list management to effectively lock it in for him now without at least having a head to head for the spot. Especially when he’ll be 5th to 6th in line when he returns and unlikely to go past the 4 in front of him (Moore, Roughead, Murphy and Keane).



They’re holding off in case he goes down prior to the close of the SSP, which he won’t, but if he does I expect we’ll sign one of the VFL boys training with us.

I didn't think the SSP allowed for state leaguers to be signed? I thought it was for delisted players.

 

[35Daicos]

I didn't think the SSP allowed for state leaguers to be signed? I thought it was for delisted players.

As long as a player has previously nominated for the draft (or been on an AFL list*) they can be signed via the SSP.

Cottrell and Gibbons (Carlton), Lockhart (Melbourne) and Stack (Richmond) were (along with a few others) taken a year ago, and hadn't previously been listed players.

* With the exception of players who retire or delist themselves - those players must nominate for that year's draft and be overlooked, or sit out an AFL season to be eligible for the SSP.

 

[swoop42]

I know it's currently the most boring period on the football calendar with little to keep people engaged but I honestly don't see a need for such focus on Dunn.

He's likely to fill our last (or near enough to it) list spot for 2020 and I'd be surprised if any player in such circumstances would have a major role to play in their sides premiership chances.

At best he's an experienced key position defender (on a modest salary) to call upon should the need be required at AFL level. Most likely he'll spend his time in the VFL where his experience and guidance will be valuable for the bunch of young and raw key position types we have.

At worst he's a well liked and respected leader within the playing group who sets good examples.

If you want to look for some bigger meaning then I would suggest that if you expect loyalty from the likes of Grundy, de Goey, Moore and for them to remain and reject larger financial offers then demonstrating that Collingwood will in turn remain committed to loyal servants of the club at the very end of their career is a pretty smart selling tool when in negotiations.

 

[HFF]

Anyone thinking Dunn is not list worthy don’t know anything about the game !


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I'm officially dumber for having read this comment.