List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 8

[_RT_]

 

[Nostradumbass]

yet you have 120,000 likes
how did you manage that ?

your going at 3 likes per post

I post a lot of shit

 

[tiger_tough]

Total hypothetical but would Tiger fans think pick 3 for Rioli and Baker (to different clubs) is reasonable if they did both want a fresh start and the Tigers wanted to get another pick at the very top of the draft?

Not a chance. Lose two great, prime age leaders for a single pick? That'd be terrible list management.

We'd get a top 10 pick plus 20 for Rioli on his own off GC, minimum.

 

[THE_GUN]

If Daniel Rioli

17

Daniel Rioli

Age

27

Ht

179cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.2

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

2.7

3star

T

3.2

5star

MG

179.2

3star

D

8.1

2star

K

4.9

2star

HB

3.3

2star

M

2.0

2star

T

2.6

4star

MG

144.9

3star

D

9.0

3star

K

3.8

2star

HB

5.2

4star

M

0.8

1star

T

3.8

5star

MG

160.2

3star

wants to leave then you trade him but milk the sh!t out of Gold Coast

said it before and will repeat it again
Dimma truly believes and with good reason he has the talent already on the list to win a flag maybe 2 in the next 7-10 years and he got a great Xmas present last year with 4 top academy kids and will get another gun kid this year
Only missing piece is that dynamic HBF like Rioli who has 5/6 years of good football ahead

GC have 2 mid range picks that would have to be the min cost to move Drioli

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Rioli worth more than pick 3? Gee that’s a hot take. I’m not going to pretend to know how he’s rated internally but I’d be surprised if that was offered. Mind you he is under contract, you can name your price.

Look, I don't go to many Eagles games, so I'm in no position to state what most of them are worth in the trade market, and I'm assuming you're the same insofar as seeing Richmond games. And there's no way I'm depending on the telly, radio and written media to evaluate a certain player's worth on the market.

But going to games and watching a bloke's role in real time is a tried and tested means of judging their impact on a footy field. Which is obviously the key ingredient, but there's also the value they bring as a clubman, a leader and a mentor to others on the playing list. For the most part us supporters are not privy to those last roles, but with Dan Rioli his influence as a leader within the club has been made abundantly clear. If you're not convinced of that, merely read the Konrad Marshall trilogy.

You're a great poster EV, and most welcome here with your rational and sensible views - you actually bring fresh eyes to the conversation on this thread. But I'd be really careful trying to assign value to our club champions mate.

Here is the history of pick 3 over the last 20 years in very rough order of merit so we can see where the median value is...



Martin
Jackson
Sheezel
Walter
Griffen
Rankine
Mills
Callaghan
McLuggage
Angus Brayshaw
S Hill
Day
Mastern
Billings
Ellis
Tyson
Hansen
Phillips
Plowman
P Dow

So your median expectation with pick 3 is a Stephen Hill-Angus Brayshaw level player. But 9 of the 20 the club taking the player would probably quite like to have a second go at picking a player.

So the question is along the lines of is Rioli and Baker together at or near their peak worth one of S Hill or Angus Brayshaw?

I would say the Tigers would want a little more than pick 3 for those 2 players. Maybe pick 3 and pick 15 or a slightly higher pick like 12 with pick 30 going back or something like that. That is a fair trade. But you don't let these guys go voluntarily just for fair value. Richmond would want something a bit above fair value, especially for the contracted Rioli.

But even many of these names are something of a misrepresentation of the worth of Pick #3, at least over the last few years as academies, compos and father/sons have made sure that particular draft selection has been diluted.

For instance, if we had Pick #3 in 2023 there's no way we get Jed Walter (academy), or even Zane Duursma at the fourth selection (compo pick). We get Pick #5 (Nick Watson) or any non-F/S/acad/compo after him.

In 2022 with Pick #3 we don't get Sheezel, as F/S Will Ashcroft taken with (#2) - we get Wardlaw and down.

In 2021 with Pick #3 we don't get Callaghan, or even Naicos at #4, as he and F/S Sam Darcy (#2) ensure we only get Andrew and down.

In 2020 with Pick #3 we don't get Phillips (if we're daft enough to use it on him!), as Ugle-Hagan (academy) goes at #1, ensuring we only get McDonald and down.

In 2019 it's Ash and not Jackson, and so on well back into history.

With all due respect to the possible future improvement of each of these relative youngsters from the last four years, they're unproven in the heat of finals matches, except for McDonald who has triple the number of clangers in his finals appearances than goals, and the same number of clangers as marks! As a key forward!

Ash by far the best of that crop, but I'll still settle for the next 6-8 years of Dan Rioli if it's a choice of him or Pick #3. I would want two picks inside the top ten if we're to truly value add to our list, even in the longer term.

 

[eaglevision]

Look, I don't go to many Eagles games, so I'm in no position to state what most of them are worth in the trade market, and I'm assuming you're the same insofar as seeing Richmond games. And there's no way I'm depending on the telly, radio and written media to evaluate a certain player's worth on the market.

But going to games and watching a bloke's role in real time is a tried and tested means of judging their impact on a footy field. Which is obviously the key ingredient, but there's also the value they bring as a clubman, a leader and a mentor to others on the playing list. For the most part us supporters are not privy to those last roles, but with Dan Rioli his influence as a leader within the club has been made abundantly clear. If you're not convinced of that, merely read the Konrad Marshall trilogy.

Look, you're a great poster EV, and most welcome here with your rational and sensible views - you actually bring fresh eyes to the conversation on this thread. But I'd be really careful trying to assign value to our club champions mate.

That’s the point I was making, on face value (footballing), pick 3 for Rioli seems like a good deal to me but I’m not privy to the intangibles he brings to the club. His leadership for the indigenous boys for example. At the eagles we knew internally what Lewis Jetta brought for Liam Ryan and Willie Rioli and there’s no draft pick you could assign that measured that worth. They’ve both had their issues and Jetta’s influence and guidance may have been the difference between them turning into really good footballers or making some poor choices and being delisted.

I mentioned earlier Rioli is a contracted player, if he wants to leave then the Tigers set the price. Not the Suns, not the media and certainly not me.

 

[Noidnadroj]

GC need a running half back. We should strongly recommend Short heads there. He’s 14-months older than Rioli. Has also had a few soft tissue niggles in recent years. But at 29yo start of 2025 he would fit into the beginning of GC’s finals / flag window.

Get one of GC’s first rounders, and give them Short plus a few picks in the 40-50’s for points.

Win/win. We get overs in a trade and free up another $600k in the cap, we retain Rioli, and GC get points and the running half back they need.



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[Lacustrus]

I’m starting the thread now. If Dan Rioli stays make him captain. Could not think of a better choice

I don’t mind it ..,

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Look, I don't go to many Eagles games, so I'm in no position to state what most of them are worth in the trade market, and I'm assuming you're the same insofar as seeing Richmond games. And there's no way I'm depending on the telly, radio and written media to evaluate a certain player's worth on the market.

But going to games and watching a bloke's role in real time is a tried and tested means of judging their impact on a footy field. Which is obviously the key ingredient, but there's also the value they bring as a clubman, a leader and a mentor to others on the playing list. For the most part us supporters are not privy to those last roles, but with Dan Rioli his influence as a leader within the club has been made abundantly clear. If you're not convinced of that, merely read the Konrad Marshall trilogy.

You're a great poster EV, and most welcome here with your rational and sensible views - you actually bring fresh eyes to the conversation on this thread. But I'd be really careful trying to assign value to our club champions mate.


But even many of these names are something of a misrepresentation of the worth of Pick #3, at least over the last few years as academies, compos and father/sons have made sure that particular draft selection has been diluted.

For instance, if we had Pick #3 in 2023 there's no way we get Jed Walter (academy), or even Zane Duursma at the fourth selection (compo pick). We get Pick #5 (Nick Watson) or any non-F/S/acad/compo after him.

In 2022 with Pick #3 we don't get Sheezel, as F/S Will Ashcroft taken with (#2) - we get Wardlaw and down.

In 2021 with Pick #3 we don't get Callaghan, or even Naicos at #4, as he and F/S Sam Darcy (#2) ensure we only get Andrew and down.

In 2020 with Pick #3 we don't get Phillips (if we're daft enough to use it on him!), as Ugle-Hagan (academy) goes at #1, ensuring we only get McDonald and down.

In 2019 it's Ash and not Jackson, and so on well back into history.

With all due respect to the possible future improvement of each of these relative youngsters from the last four years, they're unproven in the heat of finals matches, except for McDonald who has triple the number of clangers in his finals appearances than goals, and the same number of clangers as marks! As a key forward!

Ash by far the best of that crop, but I'll still settle for the next 6-8 years of Dan Rioli if it's a choice of him or Pick #3. I would want two picks inside the top ten if we're to truly value add to our list, even in the longer term.

Good points there GoJJ. I wonder if we did a similar exercise with say pick 4 what the median player would look like.

Providing Gibcus come good as an elite key defender, we probably need 3 key players at least, like top end guys who can play key forward and or midfield, in order to build our future team. We should end up with 3 first round picks this year, 1-2 next year and plenty of cap space to lure a free agent. You would be hoping that we get our 3 key guys from that lot whether through the draft, trades or free agency.

 

[Cleansweep17]

In regards to Dan Rioli he’s 27 years old and as hard as it is to say he will not be part of the next flag in fact no anybody above 25 years old will be.

I say trade anybody that we can get good value out of.

Baker
Rioli
Short
Graham

Are the only candidates really, everybody else will be worth a packet of chips. Which is not a bad thing as it means we still have plenty of decent players/good leaders at the club.

 

[Muddiemoose]

In regards to Dan Rioli he’s 27 years old and as hard as it is to say he will not be part of the next flag in fact no anybody above 25 years old will be.

I say trade anybody that we can get good value out of.

Baker
Rioli
Short
Graham

Are the only candidates really, everybody else will be worth a packet of chips. Which is not a bad thing as it means we still have plenty of decent players/good leaders at the club.

Don’t agree with that statement at all personally

We don’t know when our next flag will be and to say we won’t be in contention again in 5 years is hyperbolic

Similar things were said in 2016 about a lot of our players and I said the same about a lot of Pies and Geelong players in recent seasons and have had to eat my words

 

[GhostofJimJess]

In regards to Dan Rioli he’s 27 years old and as hard as it is to say he will not be part of the next flag in fact no anybody above 25 years old will be.

I disagree. Dan Rioli may well be a massive part of our next flag. Just like Chris Newman and Ivan Maric were significant parts of our 2017/19/20 flags.

 

[Bojangles17]

I disagree. Dan Rioli may well be a massive part of our next flag. Just like Chris Newman and Ivan Maric were significant parts of our 2017/19/20 flags.

With the plan to bring in a swag of top end talent ,they need to be lead by qty to develop the right way otherwise your paddling

 

[sregit]

With the plan to bring in a swag of top end talent ,they need to be lead by qty to develop the right way otherwise your paddling

Agree with you totally. Unless GC were to come up with a godfather deal it would be pointless. Rather keep him and if he was to walk as a free agent next year we’d probably end with early compo next year. Ask for the world if he wants to leave or get the world next year.

 

[juss]

Don’t agree with that statement at all personally

We don’t know when our next flag will be and to say we won’t be in contention again in 5 years is hyperbolic

Similar things were said in 2016 about a lot of our players and I said the same about a lot of Pies and Geelong players in recent seasons and have had to eat my words

There isn't any player on our list within a country mile of a Dusty, Riewoldt, Rance or Cotchin in their primes.

We are a long, long, long way off a flag.

 

[The Mighty]

No campaigners are coming to the RFC by the time this season is ended we will have players pushing for an exit

 

[mctiger33]

After watching this effort tonight, Blair and co. need to accept we’re not going to be near finals for 5 years and trade/draft accordingly. Stock up on picks for the next 3 drafts before Tassie control picks 1-5. We’re going to have to give up players to get top line talent in, we have gaps and problems all over the park. Baker is likely gone and if Rioli wants out, we have to consider it if we could get 2 picks inside first round out of GC. Lot of pain on field coming but the list is in awful shape.

 

[juss]

Rioli is contracted so his situation is a win-win. Either we get a godfather offer or we keep Rioli.

If Dimma wants Rioli, as we know he loves the kid, the Suns cough up two first rounders, and one of them needs to be decent not accepting 2 late teens picks.

Baker is the one that worries me if he leaves we get unders.

Graham we just accept the FA compo.

Listen to offers for every other player if clubs ask the question.

 

[lizard man]

We are going to have to overpay to bring in an above average key forward …… we can’t keep going on just kicking it long to the options we have available ….. the coaches aren’t playing Ryan or Kosi even when we desperately need them so don’t think they rate them as highly as we like. Perhaps the coaches do rate Ryan but more as our next ruckman and not a forward but I’m not even confident of that either

 

[juss]

We are going to have to overpay to bring in an above average key forward …… we can’t keep going on just kicking it long to the options we have available ….. the coaches aren’t playing Ryan or Kosi even when we desperately need them so don’t think they rate them as highly as we like. Perhaps the coaches do rate Ryan but more as our next ruckman and not a forward but I’m not even confident of that either

Ryan is 3-5 more kgs from being a good AFL player. Kid has enough ability just needs a bit more to his frame as he can get worked out of it a bit and pushed around.

 

[NZ_Tiger]

Our forward line is also the worst in the competition with Lynch out.

Plenty of money in the kitty if we can get someone to sign.

The draft is the cleapest test to get talent, we’ve wasted our picks on unathletic shit mids and small forwards.


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[SplintWhisky]

Here is how I would be looking at it.

Untouchables as leaders: Baker, Taranto, Lynch, Vlastuin, Broad, D.Rioli

Those are the players I think we need to keep as leaders of the club that can guide and move the next generation through.

Hard Conversation players: Bolton, Graham, Short.

I am going back to the well on Bolton. I just don't think he will be able to hack the absolute shit we are going to be dishing up. We would get something insane for him that would really help set us up for the future.

Graham and Short we could probably get second rounders through FA compo or just pure trades. Again if we can get those picks this year to start the stockpile we really should.

We need to be pulling in all the kids we can for the next few years from the top 30 in the drafts prior to Tasmania coming in.

SCOUTS ARE NEEDED TO FIND VALUE. We need to pick the eyes out of the COVID drafts. They say they are about 2 years behind so we need to start trying to front run and pull the unseen value where we can.

TRADING IN: We will need to trade in some experience around the 25-28 year old range. It isnt going to be sexy but we need to find some clubmen and hard workers that can help set the standards for the kids.

PEOPLE WANT TO COMPARE US TO 2010 - WE ARE AT THE STAGE OF 07.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Realistically say a club came knocking... What do you kents reckon it would take to get Bolton out of Punt Rd?

U've all seen how dogshite our small forwards are, it would be the best trade since Judd for us even if we had to fork up a lot of picks.

 

[THE_GUN]

Realistically say a club came knocking... What do you kents reckon it would take to get Bolton out of Punt Rd?

U've all seen how dogshite our small forwards are, it would be the best trade since Judd for us even if we had to fork up a lot of picks.

Bolton would absolutely go ballistic under Harry & Charlie
too bad you will never get him (not for a long while anyway)
2 x top 10 picks but you have 0 chance to fit him in the carlton salary cap

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Bolton would absolutely go ballistic under Harry & Charlie
too bad you will never get him (not for a long while anyway)
2 x top 10 picks but you have 0 chance to fit him in the carlton salary cap

Not unless we move some non spuds on which unfortunately I can't see our list manager doing, he's very conservative from what we've seen.

 

[THE_GUN]

Not unless we move some non spuds on which unfortunately I can't see our list manager doing, he's very conservative from what we've seen.

Which Carlton players can you move to open up $1.5 mil over 6/7 years

You guys are tapping out with all the signings and will be back ending Wietering

Carlton have 5-6 years to snag a flag after that its back to rebuild territory as that window passes very very quickly