Vic Clubs take $77m in Pokies revenue

Socrates2

Norm Smith Medallist
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Aug 11, 2015
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Here's the thing, AFL clubs walking away from pokies is going to change absolutely nothing in terms of the number of people losing money on pokies. It just means some corporate gremlin will be raking in that money instead. Until the government makes serious changes with root causes of gambling, like a massive mental health drive, or even reintroducing the pre-commitment scheme that Gillard floated and then abandoned 9 years ago, there's really no point in the clubs walking away. They might as well profit if the social harm is going to be done anyway.
Poor argument, it's like saying there will always be crime so become a criminal. I don't think they just on sell their licence.
 

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The_Wookie

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Poor argument, it's like saying there will always be crime so become a criminal. I don't think they just on sell their licence.
they demonstrably do so. Collingwood just have.
 

jatz14

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Here's the thing, AFL clubs walking away from pokies is going to change absolutely nothing in terms of the number of people losing money on pokies. It just means some corporate gremlin will be raking in that money instead. Until the government makes serious changes with root causes of gambling, like a massive mental health drive, or even reintroducing the pre-commitment scheme that Gillard floated and then abandoned 9 years ago, there's really no point in the clubs walking away. They might as well profit if the social harm is going to be done anyway.
An argument that can be used to justify all number of things. Investing in cigarette companies, selling truck loads of opiates into markets with much smaller 'legitimate' demand. Why not? If someone is going to profit from someone elses addiction, why not me?

The problem is, issues like this can turn quite quickly. Their illegal in WA, what if a public campaign swings public attitudes, and the Vic state government suddenly bans them. If your finances are built around them you have a big problem. I guess that is highly unlikely currently, but the politics of things like that can swing fast. Aside from that is the public attitude, even if the government doesn't ban them, public attitude to them can change enough that being in them does more damage to the club than they are worth. What if sponsors start dropping clubs that run pokies?

Time to read the room, and start heading for the exit.
 

jatz14

Norm Smith Medallist
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Someone has to own the pokies right???
It doesn't have to be clubs though. The attitude to pokies is only going to harden imop, and organisations, like football clubs, that rely on their public profile, will find that running pokies comes at an increasing cost. They are better of selling the rights to companies that do not have a real public face outside pokies, and finding alternative income. Look at BigFooty, lots of people here are opposed, and its a footy site, attitude elsewhere is worse.
 

RussellEbertHandball

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Nov 16, 2004
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An argument that can be used to justify all number of things. Investing in cigarette companies, selling truck loads of opiates into markets with much smaller 'legitimate' demand. Why not? If someone is going to profit from someone elses addiction, why not me?

The problem is, issues like this can turn quite quickly. Their illegal in WA, what if a public campaign swings public attitudes, and the Vic state government suddenly bans them. If your finances are built around them you have a big problem. I guess that is highly unlikely currently, but the politics of things like that can swing fast. Aside from that is the public attitude, even if the government doesn't ban them, public attitude to them can change enough that being in them does more damage to the club than they are worth. What if sponsors start dropping clubs that run pokies?

Time to read the room, and start heading for the exit.
State governments became addicted to pokies taxes. Its somewhere between 10-15% of their non Commonwealth government tax revenues. They wont get rid of them.

WA probably avoided them in the 80's and 90's, because of their mining royalties base. But according to the productivity commission report into gambling a few years ago, WA has the highest spend on lotteries per capita in the OECD nations.
 

jatz14

Norm Smith Medallist
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State governments became addicted to pokies taxes. Its somewhere between 10-15% of their non Commonwealth government tax revenues. They wont get rid of them.

WA probably avoided them in the 80's and 90's, because of their mining royalties base. But according to the productivity commission report into gambling a few years ago, WA has the highest spend on lotteries per capita in the OECD nations.
People do not spend 12 hours buying lottery tickets.
 

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Ned_Flanders

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Interesting article from the Age today, the 'family club' , Hawthorn have made an incredible $24 million from poker machines in 12 months. If they need to make money from the misfortune of others to survive should they consider merging to stop the destruction in the community?
It seems hypocritical that former Beyond Blue chairman Jeff Kennett has no qualms about making these massive profits.
My own team Richmond, made $5.3 million and has no plan to phase out pokies. What does the AFL stand for when sports gambling and pokies are generating massive profits at the expense of the little guy?
(The teams with an asterisk have a phase-out plan.)
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Jfyi Richmond has stated it will be selling it's pokies, time yet to be advised. That's why the club started Aligned Leisure and it's Swinburne JV, to replace the lost pokies profits.
 

4THAWN

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Mar 25, 2019
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It doesn't have to be clubs though. The attitude to pokies is only going to harden imop, and organisations, like football clubs, that rely on their public profile, will find that running pokies comes at an increasing cost. They are better of selling the rights to companies that do not have a real public face outside pokies, and finding alternative income. Look at BigFooty, lots of people here are opposed, and its a footy site, attitude elsewhere is worse.
i find clubs owning pokies far less dangerous than the AFL's support of gambling in general.
 

NoobPie

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Sep 21, 2016
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Jfyi Richmond has stated it will be selling it's pokies, time yet to be advised. That's why the club started Aligned Leisure and it's Swinburne JV, to replace the lost pokies profits.
Richmond signalled it was going to be getting out of pokies.....but then it went and extended its existing licences

I reckon an Eddie Maguire led Collingwood would have received a more cynical response to what Richmond got away with
 

Kwality

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Its not that simple any more. The clubs have no control over much of their revenue, and expenses.

1. No fair draw.
2. Centralised AFL stadium deals means Victorian clubs have almost no ability to negotiate their own venue arrangements - particularly true if you are a lower drawing club like the Roos, Bulldogs and Saints.
3. Playing at Docklands over the MCG - these same 3 clubs. For whatever reason, the Victorian football public prefers the MCG over Docklands.
4. The AFL and MCC directly competing for members with the clubs. While the AFL has always offered a club support option, the MCC hasnt until recently.
5. Compulsory spending on player wages - up to 95% of the cap must be spent.

Then theres the struggle to maintain parity with your neighboring clubs or interstate clubs with deeper pockets than youve ever had, because the league had favoured them with fixturing decisions (see: Blockbusters, marquee timeslots, venues) or being unable to compete with fiercely parochial non victorian clubs.
Its not that simple any more. The clubs have no control over much of their revenue, and expenses.

1. No fair draw.
2. Centralised AFL stadium deals means Victorian clubs have almost no ability to negotiate their own venue arrangements - particularly true if you are a lower drawing club like the Roos, Bulldogs and Saints.
3. Playing at Docklands over the MCG - these same 3 clubs. For whatever reason, the Victorian football public prefers the MCG over Docklands.
4. The AFL and MCC directly competing for members with the clubs. While the AFL has always offered a club support option, the MCC hasnt until recently.
5. Compulsory spending on player wages - up to 95% of the cap must be spent.

Then theres the struggle to maintain parity with your neighboring clubs or interstate clubs with deeper pockets than youve ever had, because the league had favoured them with fixturing decisions (see: Blockbusters, marquee timeslots, venues) or being unable to compete with fiercely parochial non victorian clubs.
Yep, all of the above & the only revenue stream accessible is what the AFL banks IMHO. How would be the debate.
What does the past 3 or 5 years look without pokies in clubland?
What could be cut from the AFL spending in corresponding years?

You'd need a review about what can be done, the naysayers will look to protect their own.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Richmond signalled it was going to be getting out of pokies.....but then it went and extended its existing licences

I reckon an Eddie Maguire led Collingwood would have received a more cynical response to what Richmond got away with
Of course they were going extended. We want to sell them and make money, and you do that by having something of value.

Id be livid if we just renounced the licences and sold the Wantirna club at a lesser value
 

Bunk Moreland

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Sep 22, 2011
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they demonstrably do so. Collingwood just have.
What’s more, they sell the license for an enormous amount due to the revenue the pokies will continue to earn their new owners.

Clubs exiting the pokies are just taking a huge whack of cash now rather than a slow influx of revenue each year in future.

Honestly, it’s such horses**t. I remember clubs actually holding press conferences to announce they’re out of pokies, like they’re doing the community some favour. It’s garbage. They’re taking in a huge profit.

Want to get out of pokies? Good for you, go ahead. But don’t ******* dress it up like some act of of service.

Wanna actually do some good? Keep the machines and switch em off. Yeah, didn’t think so!
 

Thegibbsgamble

I beg to meg
Oct 28, 2017
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The big issue is even if the clubs rid themselves of the pokies, this issue will still be the same. The only difference is someone else will be profiting of others misfortune.
You don't think that the administration and players appearing in television and radio against pokie machines and the damage they do to people struggling, will have any effect?
 

Ned_Flanders

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What’s more, they sell the license for an enormous amount due to the revenue the pokies will continue to earn their new owners.

Clubs exiting the pokies are just taking a huge whack of cash now rather than a slow influx of revenue each year in future.

Honestly, it’s such horses**t. I remember clubs actually holding press conferences to announce they’re out of pokies, like they’re doing the community some favour. It’s garbage. They’re taking in a huge profit.

Want to get out of pokies? Good for you, go ahead. But don’t ******* dress it up like some act of of service.

Wanna actually do some good? Keep the machines and switch em off. Yeah, didn’t think so!
Agree clubs should not get sanctimonious on this, but not about selling them. Their obligation is to maximize the financial investments they make with members coin, not make losses for a one off press release
 
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