VoteCompass 2022

[Number37]

What is your number of hours a week?

Me personally?

Retired so 0.

Is the student who chooses to work 1 day a week unemployed ?

No.
The definition requires "actively looking for work".

 

[HairyO]

Me personally?

Retired so 0.




No.
The definition requires "actively looking for work".

So then you look at the under employed stat. Whi h is readily available.

Not sure what the issue is? Its at a many year low now, by the way.

Albo will be inheriting a pretty decent economy. Wont have many excuses if he screws things up.

 

[Number37]

So then you look at the under employed stat. Whi h is readily available.

Not sure what the issue is? Its at a many year low now, by the way.

Albo will be inheriting a pretty decent economy. Wont have many excuses if he screws things up.

We were in recession 5 seconds before the pandemic started.
Borrowed a trillion.
The economy is NOT in 'pretty decent' shape.
The biggest issue is still the structural budget, which has been a problem since Howard F'd it up.
Coupled with inflation, stagnant wages and debt management, there are 100 different ways we could turn into a banana republic tomorrow.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

So then you look at the under employed stat. Whi h is readily available.

Not sure what the issue is? Its at a many year low now, by the way.

Albo will be inheriting a pretty decent economy. Wont have many excuses if he screws things up.

I have issues with the underemployment stat, because the market is behaving as if it has an underemployment problem, but the data doesnt reflect it

its been years since i properly looked into it, but id be curious if the gig economy and use of contract labour is being inadvertently excluded

its a grain of salt example, but a Roy Morgan survey (i know...) had 13% of respondents indicating that they were either unemployed or underemployed

and btw this isnt a partisan issue. its a problem caused by the changing nature of employment, and the fact no govt wants to be the one to increase the level of underemployment/unemployment by updating the stat

 

[HairyO]

I have issues with the underemployment stat, because the market is behaving as if it has an underemployment problem, but the data doesnt reflect it

its been years since i properly looked into it, but id be curious if the gig economy and use of contract labour is being inadvertently excluded

its a grain of salt example, but a Roy Morgan survey (i know...) had 13% of respondents indicating that they were either unemployed or underemployed

and btw this isnt a partisan issue. its a problem caused by the changing nature of employment, and the fact no govt wants to be the one to increase the level of underemployment/unemployment by updating the stat

Its used globally. It would be silly to do it differently. And global markets would frown on it making money harder to get.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Its used globally. It would be silly to do it differently. And global markets would frown on it making money harder to get.

its not global - each country tweeks their stats in slightly different ways

remember we consider someone employed if they work a single hour for uber in an entire month

also our stats were created prior to workers being forced to be "independent contractors" and thus outside the scope of being considered PT for hours worked

 

[HairyO]

its not global - each country tweeks their stats in slightly different ways

remember we consider someone employed if they work a single hour for uber in an entire month

also our stats were created prior to workers being forced to be "independent contractors" and thus outside the scope of being considered PT for hours worked

Self employed still count as employed. And the ILO definition is used by all major countries.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Self employed still count as employed. And the ILO definition is used by all major countries.

independent contractors are not self employed when they only work for one firm, and that firm forces them to be an independent contractor

this is how stats get skewed. just because someone is a contractor it doesnt mean that they are truly independent, and it definitely doesnt mean that they are a FTE

 

[Gralin]

Consumption tax can easily be coupled with rebates for low income earners.

Nobody proposing them ever mentions this though and I don't see that happening in Australia where being poor is seen as a choice

People with kids pay no net tax up to around $60k a year. The 2 big problems are when there are rapidly rising costs and most people are simply beyond hopeless with money.

Please tell me how this 60k no tax thing works

 

[HairyO]

Nobody proposing them ever mentions this though and I don't see that happening in Australia where being poor is seen as a choice


Please tell me how this 60k no tax thing works

Im pretty sure there were a huge number of changes to benefit payments when GST was introduced. As I said, for people with kids there is zero net tax paid until you get in the $60k range. For singles its a lot lower obviously. But the cost for people with no kids is also significantly lower.

How it works (and these are all examples to explain the process, the exact numbers could be found on ATO and other govt websites):
You earn $30k
You pay $2k marginal tax
You spend $34k on things, of which $2.2k attracts GST and other taxes
You receive Family Tax A of $3k
You receive Family Tax B of $1.5k
You receive rebates on Medicare and other health things of $1k
You get a discount on your car rego of $200
You get cheap transport of anywhere up to thousands of $$$
You get 11 other things which are there for the taking
Etc.

So when you sum up what you pay in tax vs what you get from various govts. if you have 2+ kids its the $60k range before the total amount of tax you pay exceeds the total amount of money you get from various govts.

 

[Gralin]

Im pretty sure there were a huge number of changes to benefit payments when GST was introduced. As I said, for people with kids there is zero net tax paid until you get in the $60k range. For singles its a lot lower obviously. But the cost for people with no kids is also significantly lower.

How it works (and these are all examples to explain the process, the exact numbers could be found on ATO and other govt websites):
You earn $30k
You pay $2k marginal tax
You spend $34k on things, of which $2.2k attracts GST and other taxes
You receive Family Tax A of $3k
You receive Family Tax B of $1.5k
You receive rebates on Medicare and other health things of $1k
You get a discount on your car rego of $200
You get cheap transport of anywhere up to thousands of $$$
You get 11 other things which are there for the taking
Etc.

So when you sum up what you pay in tax vs what you get from various govts. if you have 2+ kids its the $60k range before the total amount of tax you pay exceeds the total amount of money you get from various govts.

You earn 30k....
Minimum wage is 40k
Family tax A benefit requires family income to be 80k or less
For a lot of people there is no change to tax or payments from having kids

 

[HairyO]

You earn 30k....
Minimum wage is 40k
Family tax A benefit requires family income to be 80k or less
For a lot of people there is no change to tax or payments from having kids

Yes they would be the ones who are earning more than $60k who pay more than they get. If you have 3 kids I think its up to about $100k where the money decreases, but there are some payments which go up to about $150k.

Howard wanting tax splitting for married people, the Senate didnt, but they did say yes to Family Tax B - which is basically the same thing as what Howard wanted.

Im a single parent with 1 child and get no benefits. But I earn reasonable money so shouldnt be getting anything. Welfare for rich people is disgusting, and both Labor and Liberal are too gutless to stop it. The idea that someone on $150k a year needs a handout is just plain wrong.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Yes they would be the ones who are earning more than $60k who pay more than they get. If you have 3 kids I think its up to about $100k where the money decreases, but there are some payments which go up to about $150k.

Howard wanting tax splitting for married people, the Senate didnt, but they did say yes to Family Tax B - which is basically the same thing as what Howard wanted.

Im a single parent with 1 child and get no benefits. But I earn reasonable money so shouldnt be getting anything. Welfare for rich people is disgusting, and both Labor and Liberal are too gutless to stop it. The idea that someone on $150k a year needs a handout is just plain wrong.

That was my pet hate in the 80s growing up.

With two working parents, we didn't qualify for austudy, but kids who's dad's were dentists, accountants, business owners and so on did (because they were burying the income via various instruments). And to make matters worse, the parents gave it 100% to the kids who just spent it all at Timezone

 

[Kram]

That was my pet hate in the 80s growing up.

With two working parents, we didn't qualify for austudy, but kids who's dad's were dentists, accountants, business owners and so on did (because they were burying the income via various instruments). And to make matters worse, the parents gave it 100% to the kids who just spent it all at Timezone

lol there's no way that someone could 'bury' a dentist's income and claim Austudy.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

lol there's no way that someone could 'bury' a dentist's income and claim Austudy.

80s mate. It was before FBT and a lot of the current laws

 

[HairyO]

That was my pet hate in the 80s growing up.

With two working parents, we didn't qualify for austudy, but kids who's dad's were dentists, accountants, business owners and so on did (because they were burying the income via various instruments). And to make matters worse, the parents gave it 100% to the kids who just spent it all at Timezone

Yep. Its disgraceful. Expected from a party for rich people, but particularly bad for a supposedly labour party. I would be quite happy to lower the tax rates a little and then ban all deductions.

I think tradies buying a $35k car every 2 years, getting $20k from the govt, then selling it for $20k after those 2 years and making $5k profit is a particularly obscene one. But for sure super rich people getting their million dollar salaries down to basically nothing is just plain wrong.

I'd also make the CGT discount be 10 years not 1 year. To encourage actual investment (whether shares, houses, whatever).

 

[Gralin]

Yep. Its disgraceful. Expected from a party for rich people, but particularly bad for a supposedly labour party. I would be quite happy to lower the tax rates a little and then ban all deductions.

I think tradies buying a $35k car every 2 years, getting $20k from the govt, then selling it for $20k after those 2 years and making $5k profit is a particularly obscene one. But for sure super rich people getting their million dollar salaries down to basically nothing is just plain wrong.

I'd also make the CGT discount be 10 years not 1 year. To encourage actual investment (whether shares, houses, whatever).

lol 35k car, you're living in the past if you think that's what they're spending

 

[Carringbush2010]

But prior to Covid, we’ve had a government use the unemployment level to keep wages down…… keeping the level over 5%. That’s hardly fair on those wanting a job.

Wages aren't regulated by government, there's laws that set a minimum wages and that's where it ends. Governments don't determine rate of pay, just the minimum as a law.

 

[nut]

Wages aren't regulated by government, there's laws that set a minimum wages and that's where it ends. Governments don't determine rate of pay, just the minimum as a law.

Immigration can control the unemployment level, which can control competition for jobs, which can control wages…
Keeping unemployment high can help keep wages down …

 

[HairyO]

lol 35k car, you're living in the past if you think that's what they're spending

Again its an example. They make a profit buying a ute/Ranger every 2 years so that the Libs can win all the seats in the Hills District (I assume most cities have similar rich/blue colour suburbs).

 

[Carringbush2010]

Immigration can control the unemployment level, which can control competition for jobs, which can control wages…
Keeping unemployment high can help keep wages down …

Yes but that's market driven, not a deliberation by govt. which you were alluding.

 

[nut]

Yes but that's market driven, not a deliberation by govt. which you were alluding.

Who controls immigration? Reece plumbing?

 

[Donakebab]

Thread is for vote compass pics so we can judge you on a pretty arbitrary graph, not for discussion argy bargy.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Who controls immigration? Reece plumbing?

Immigration is a necessity, it's not like the govt. says to themselves 'immigration to keep wages down and keep poor people poor'.

You seem to have a theory that all the politicians are conspiring to keep the poor poor.

Please explain how this is the intentional aim of our pollies? If that is what you're alluding.

 

[nut]

Immigration is a necessity, it's not like the govt. says to themselves 'immigration to keep wages down and keep poor people poor'.

You seem to have a theory that all the politicians are conspiring to keep the poor poor.

Please explain how this is the intentional aim of our pollies? If that is what you're alluding.

…

The LNP is on record saying they want to keep wages down.

Virtually no immigration the last 2 years has seen a massive drop in the unemployment level.