Weird Hills to die on (main board edition)

[footyfan1978]

Bulldoze Docklands...

 

[lumpinee]

Supporters of premiership teams know more about football and winning premierships than supporters of bottom-dwelling rabbles.

geez you guys have come along way in 9 months ya little virgins,yas remind of the nerd that couldnt pull a pimple in high school cos yous were too busy doin ya homework, and finally once you got a taste of it on ya wedding night, then,and only then did it dawn on you what the rest had been doing for decades
Its was 57 years Candy

 

[Cursed Cat]

Hahaha...good question!

Always Voss, Hird, Buckley though, innit?

Never Voss, Hird, Buckley, McLeod.

Loved watching Andrew McLeod in action, skilfull jet who got it done in September.
I remember him casually bouncing the ball left-handed, right-handed, left-handed, right-handed while running down a wing; supreme talent.

 

[Wallaby]

Bachar Houli should've won the 2017 Norm Smith. The voters bought into the Dusty hype and gave too much weight to his performance when the game was already won.

I definitely agree that the Norm Smith voters tend to favour the 'Big Names' in the GF - in 2017, I would say, as well as Dusty and Houli, Edwards, Rance and Lambert were all in contention (at least for Richmond). You can make an argument for any of those. 2019 - similar - could have been any of 3-4. In those cases, I think the voters don't want to risk being 'controversial', and so (unconsciously) go for the 'safe' option - ie the big name. There's also a bit of theatre - 'It's the most important game, and the most important award - it has to be won by a top player'. And Martin was the biggest name in those years, so if he played well, he was going to get it.

For example, I don't think KB was the obvious stand-out in 1980 - but with his final series (breaking the games record in the QF, kicking 8 & 6 goals in the first two finals, being 150 years old and the 'media darling' at that time), I reckon he would have got the Norm even if he had only kicked 3 or 4 goals.

 

[FrustratedTiger]

Sydney were the best team in 2017, and internally the club would see that as a blown opportunity more than losing the 2016 GF.

There is a lot of revisionism but Richmond weren't really that good, Adelaide were miles better across the season - Sydney beat both, away.

The 0-6 start was just a bridge too far, the injury toll (and obv some poor form) was also not properly recognised, because "the Swans always find a way"

Go even 1-5 (making top 4) and I have no doubt Sydney win the comp.

I don't think anyone thinks we were the best team in the home & away season, but a case could be mounted that we were in the finals in 2017 and we won when it counted, unlike Sydney or Adelaide that year. We were by far the best team in the 2018 home & away season but lost when it counted. It means we were not the best team that year.

 

[FrustratedTiger]

Bachar Houli should've won the 2017 Norm Smith. The voters bought into the Dusty hype and gave too much weight to his performance when the game was already won.

I'd mount an arguement for Alex Rance. Rance won the first half. Didn't see enough of the ball in the backline in the second half because of Dusty but without Rance's first half, the game would've been out of our reach by half time.

 

[PhatBoy]

If I had to choose Martin’s least NS worthy performance it would have been the GWS game. Every Richmond player won their position as Martin’s influence on the result was no greater than anyone else’s.

Against Adelaide, Houli kept Richmond in the game. Martin won it for them.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Bachar Houli should've won the 2017 Norm Smith. The voters bought into the Dusty hype and gave too much weight to his performance when the game was already won.

Has happened a number of times. You can’t expect much better when you have media nuffies voting for the award.

 

[yamborghinidream]

Has happened a number of times. You can’t expect much better when you have media nuffies voting for the award.

I think after Kennedy was overlooked in 2016 they may as well come out and say no player can win it in a losing team again - at least that would be honest.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I think after Kennedy was overlooked in 2016 they may as well come out and say no player can win it in a losing team again - at least that would be honest.

I don’t know how anybody could possibly have watched the 2008 GF and not recognised Ablett was the best individual player on the ground. He was the best by the length of the Flemington straight and it’s stupidly obvious. You’d have to be drunk or a rabid, one-eyed Hawthorn supporter to think otherwise.

Hodge was good but just is one of those players that footy types get a boner about.

 

[Captain_Bender]

I don’t know how anybody could possibly have watched the 2008 GF and not recognised Ablett was the best individual player on the ground. He was the best by the length of the Flemington straight and it’s stupidly obvious. You’d have to be drunk or a rabid, one-eyed Hawthorn supporter to think otherwise.

Hodge was good but just is one of those players that footy types get a boner about.

Ablett in 2008 reminds me of the Crouch brothers in 2017, sure they got a lot of the ball, but they had little impact as their team was well beaten

 

[BloodySwan]

Umpires robbed the Swans the 2016 premiership and the greater AFL community is happy about it. Not because the Dogs were the more deserving team but:
1. Dog were the underdog and everyone likes a feel good story
2. People were still upset the Swans got Tippet and Buddy and people didn't want to see us be rewarded
3. People were tired of seeing Sydney succeed
4. Too many people complain about poor umpiring when a team losses so this argument is lost on many regardless of how valid the argument is

 

[lumpinee]

Umpires robbed the Swans the 2016 premiership and the greater AFL community is happy about it. Not because the Dogs were the more deserving team but:
1. Dog were the underdog and everyone likes a feel good story
2. People were still upset the Swans got Tippet and Buddy and people didn't want to see us be rewarded
3. People were tired of seeing Sydney succeed
4. Too many people complain about poor umpiring when a team losses so this argument is lost on many regardless of how valid the argument is

you forget that ppl remember Demitriou & Co gifting you guys 2005 after Hall bashed Maguire 60 mtrs off the ball and was allowed to play
Karma's a bitch hey ? Stop yas whingeing,yous have a severe case of selective memory u lot

 

[Mofra]

As a Victorian, I think the northern academies are fantastic and have lead to more players choosing AFL over other sports.
If they don't make it to the AFL, many keep playing at lower leagues which raises the standard of those competition in NSW & Queensland.

 

[PhatBoy]

Ablett in 2008 reminds me of the Crouch brothers in 2017, sure they got a lot of the ball, but they had little impact as their team was well beaten

I dont really have a problem with Hodge getting the medal but Ablett was clearly the best player on the field and conversion (and yes I know the rushed behinds made it look worse but even without rushed behinds we still had more scoring shots than hawthorn) was the only thing that impacted on his influence. He sent the ball inside 50 more than any player on the field (8), had more clearances than any player on the field (8), kicked two goals himself and had the most contested possessions on the field.

There’s nothing more he could have done

 

[yamborghinidream]

As a Victorian, I think the northern academies are fantastic and have lead to more players choosing AFL over other sports.
If they don't make it to the AFL, many keep playing at lower leagues which raises the standard of those competition in NSW & Queensland.

What most people miss in the academy discussion is that there are literally no other elite pathways to develop AFL talent here.

Easily missed if the footy bubbles of VIC/SA/WA are all you know.

There is no TAC Cup or getting coached by an ex-AFL superstar at your private school of choice - you just slog it out at Premier Division and maybe get a run with the Rams for 3 weeks.

 

[Muddiemoose]

What most people miss in the academy discussion is that there are literally no other elite pathways to develop AFL talent here.

Easily missed if the footy bubbles of VIC/SA/WA are all you know.

There is no TAC Cup or getting coached by an ex-AFL superstar at your private school of choice - you just slog it out at Premier Division and maybe get a run with the Rams for 3 weeks.

I don’t have a problem with the academy’s but I think the access it gives the clubs the run them is probably a little bit to much

But it’s more a failing of the AFL not running them in the first place and essentially forcing the clubs to do the job they should be doing

So more of a gripe with the afl than the interstate clubs making the most of the system

 

[Blackhawk42]

I don’t know how anybody could possibly have watched the 2008 GF and not recognised Ablett was the best individual player on the ground. He was the best by the length of the Flemington straight and it’s stupidly obvious. You’d have to be drunk or a rabid, one-eyed Hawthorn supporter to think otherwise.

Hodge was good but just is one of those players that footy types get a boner about.

I don't mind people thinking Ablett was best on ground, but it's a far smaller gap than you're suggesting.

Hodge and Dew had far more impact on the result of that game than anybody else on the ground.

If Ablett had 40 and kicked 3 Geelong still don't win it. I'm pretty firm in the belief that it's more important a Norm Smith medal winner impact the contest the greatest. Hence why I don't mind it always going to a player from the winning side.

I also thought Houli was the best player on the ground in 2017 for that reason. Without him in the first half are Richmond behind at the main break? The Tigers would have won that Grand Final even if Dusty only had 20 touches and kicked 1.

 

[BloodySwan]

you forget that ppl remember Demitriou & Co gifting you guys 2005 after Hall bashed Maguire 60 mtrs off the ball and was allowed to play
Karma's a bitch hey ? Stop yas whingeing,yous have a severe case of selective memory u lot

Yeah, this just goes under point 3. People were tired of Sydney success so were happy to turn an eye

 

[PhatBoy]

I don't mind people thinking Ablett was best on ground, but it's a far smaller gap than you're suggesting.

Hodge and Dew had far more impact on the result of that game than anybody else on the ground.

If Ablett had 40 and kicked 3 Geelong still don't win it. I'm pretty firm in the belief that it's more important a Norm Smith medal winner impact the contest the greatest. Hence why I don't mind it always going to a player from the winning side.

I also thought Houli was the best player on the ground in 2017 for that reason. Without him in the first half are Richmond behind at the main break? The Tigers would have won that Grand Final even if Dusty only had 20 touches and kicked 1.

No they wouldn’t have. He won them the game

 

[Partridge]

Go back and watch games from the 70s and 80s and there were some outright bewildering decisions made. When Kelvin Templeton kicked 15 against the Saints, he held on to his last mark for less than a second but it was paid.

I think there exists a curious phenomenon with umpires in footy, and with now lower scoring and really big bags being extremely rare it pops up a lot less, but I think umpires definitely get sucked in by the moment when a player has kicked a huge bag. I can think of three games off the top of my head when that happened. Templeton as shown above, from memory when Dunstall kicked 12 against us once, and when Ablett kicked 14 against Essendon (his last mark was really just a juggle). Must be the combination of knowing that player has kicked so many goals already, and crowd anticipation.

The same thing unfortunately now causes them to pay deliberate out of bounds based on apparently nothing but crowd reactions.

 

[Partridge]

I don't mind people thinking Ablett was best on ground, but it's a far smaller gap than you're suggesting.

Hodge and Dew had far more impact on the result of that game than anybody else on the ground.

If Ablett had 40 and kicked 3 Geelong still don't win it. I'm pretty firm in the belief that it's more important a Norm Smith medal winner impact the contest the greatest. Hence why I don't mind it always going to a player from the winning side.

I also thought Houli was the best player on the ground in 2017 for that reason. Without him in the first half are Richmond behind at the main break? The Tigers would have won that Grand Final even if Dusty only had 20 touches and kicked 1.

I actually reckon it was much closer than people realise. It's not like Martin had a quiet first half, he was very good from the start.

The story or the profile of the player has overtaken true merit in Norm Smith voting for years now. You'll never convince me that Chapman or Scarlett weren't every bit as good as Steve Johnson in 2007, but the whole redemption thing meant we all knew who would be getting it.

 

[PhatBoy]

I actually reckon it was much closer than people realise. It's not like Martin had a quiet first half, he was very good from the start.

The story or the profile of the player has overtaken true merit in Norm Smith voting for years now. You'll never convince me that Chapman or Scarlett weren't every bit as good as Steve Johnson in 2007, but the whole redemption thing meant we all knew who would be getting it.

A defender was never going to get it that year because of the scoreline. And I can understand that: look at a 20 goal thrashing and try and make a case that a fullback was the most important player. You can’t, even if he was on merit ‘the best.’ Johnson kicked 3 of the first 6 cats goals before Chapman had scored in 07 though so I don’t really have a problem with him getting the medal even though Chapman and also Bartel were very good

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Geelong's losing 90s Grand finals teams were a better team with better players than the recent Hawk and Tiger triple premiership teams of the last decade (and probably every other flag winner since 2012 onwards)

AFLMVP would be a bigger honour for a player to win than the Brownlow.

Full nuffie

 

[Bianconeri]

Andrew Krakouer’s mark deserved mark of the year and was much better than Walker’s.