Welcome to the Bulldogs Jordan Croft

[Libbaaaa]

I remember his 5 against Richmond R1 1994 at the Western Oval

Game winning rushed behind by him too I believe?

 

[Dogs 13]

Game winning rushed behind by him too I believe?

I’ll have to trust your memory

 

[Hoges64]

Game winning rushed behind by him too I believe?

Can't comment on that either, but we won by 2 points, with Chris Grant kicking a lazy 4.5.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Can't comment on that either, but we won by 2 points, with Chris Grant kicking a lazy 4.5.

So, no goal-kicking coach back then either

 

[Bulldogs85]

 

[TiAn_]

I remember his 5 against Richmond R1 1994 at the Western Oval

I was at that game behind the Barkly St goals and just remember Richo killing us.

 

[Libbaaaa]

I’ll have to trust your memory

As in the Tigers were pressing in their forward 50 with few seconds left and Crofty just took it over the line like he was Billy Slater to kill the last few seconds. Sort of a controversy as back then that more frowned upon?

 

[TiAn_]

As in the Tigers were pressing in their forward 50 with few seconds left and Crofty just took it over the line like he was Billy Slater to kill the last few seconds. Sort of a controversy as back then that more frowned upon?

I’m pretty sure I remember that from the Hot Dogs season video

 

[Mantra]

No to playing him down back.

 

[Libbaaaa]

Looking at footage of him he is so quick, will definitely need to balance keeping that speed with adding too much size.

 

[Mr. Walker]

No to playing him down back.

Interested in why you say that.
Dogs have a bit of history in playing guys in defence for the first year or so (Ryan Griffen, Nathan Brown). Admittedly they are not KPDs. I always remember John Longmire going to North as a KPF and the Roos playing him as a FB for the first year as a way of learning forward craft. That method turned out ok in that instance.

 

[Mantra]

Interested in why you say that.
Dogs have a bit of history in playing guys in defence for the first year or so (Ryan Griffen, Nathan Brown). Admittedly they are not KPDs. I always remember John Longmire going to North as a KPF and the Roos playing him as a FB for the first year as a way of learning forward craft. That method turned out ok in that instance.

Just sick of promising young players being developed in non-natural positions to to accommodate bogus Beveridge gameplans.

If he turns out to be better suited to defence like Liam Jones, that's fine, no problems there. However his junior level coaches believed forward was his best position, and his selection in the first round is reflected by his output as forward. Taking this into account, he should be trained as a forward until it becomes apparent that he's not good enough to play forward at AFL level.

Yeah you can cite some examples of players starting off in defence, Matthew Pavlich is another one. The problem is, the coach cannot be trusted. He started off playing Ed Richards up forward for the first 3 years of his career and it was a complete waste of time. He thought Josh Bruce could seamlessly transition to defence coming off a knee reconstruction. He kept trying to play Josh Dunkley as a second ruck. He seems to love imposing his unorthodox football philosophies on the squad, and he's the type to continually double down even when things aren't working.

 

[Bulldogs85]

Just sick of promising young players being developed in non-natural positions to to accommodate bogus Beveridge gameplans.

If he turns out to be better suited to defence like Liam Jones, that's fine, no problems there. However his junior level coaches believed forward was his best position, and his selection in the first round is reflected by his output as forward. Taking this into account, he should be trained as a forward until it becomes apparent that he's not good enough to play forward at AFL level.

Yeah you can cite some examples of players starting off in defence, Matthew Pavlich is another one. The problem is, the coach cannot be trusted. He started off playing Ed Richards up forward for the first 3 years of his career and it was a complete waste of time. He thought Josh Bruce could seamlessly transition to defence coming off a knee reconstruction. He kept trying to play Josh Dunkley as a second ruck. He seems to love imposing his unorthodox football philosophies on the squad, and he's the type to continually double down even when things aren't working.

You do realise that Croft played in the backline right through Junior’s

 

[Mantra]

You do realise that Croft played in the backline right through Junior’s

Even if he did at some point, that isn't why he was selected in the first round. His form up forward is what counted.

 

[dogwatch]

Am I the only one who thinks Croft is a tiny bit overrated? I'd have thought he was a 20-25 range pick.

Since we got a points discount we probably did OK. We ended up using the points equivalent of pick 20.

Anyway there's no rush with the kid. He might not even debut this year, so he's got plenty of time to prove me wrong.

 

[flipper83]

Am I the only one who thinks Croft is a tiny bit overrated? I'd have thought he was a 20-25 range pick.

Since we got a points discount we probably did OK. We ended up using the points equivalent of pick 20.

Anyway there's no rush with the kid. He might not even debut this year, so he's got plenty of time to prove me wrong.

Based on form he definitely should have gone later but looking at his athletic profile and mindset he has a lot of desirable traits that give him a lot of scope to develop into a very good player.

 

[Here we go dogs]

I’ve watched about 5 minutes of his footage. His repeat efforts and speed is unreal for his size.

Not much of him taking contested marks?

Looks more like a defender in how he plays or even a tall winger given his speed.

His competitiveness will give him a good chance to make it.

 

[doggies ftw]

Am I the only one who thinks Croft is a tiny bit overrated? I'd have thought he was a 20-25 range pick.

Since we got a points discount we probably did OK. We ended up using the points equivalent of pick 20.

Anyway there's no rush with the kid. He might not even debut this year, so he's got plenty of time to prove me wrong.

Based on what though? He’s been firmly rated in the first round by literally every draft ‘expert’ in the country for the past season and then was bid on at 15 by a recruiter from another team? I’d suggest that would cement that he’s pretty much exactly as projected, ie a mid-late first round prospect with some serious attributes and a lot to work on to make the grade

 

[dogwatch]

Based on what though? He’s been firmly rated in the first round by literally every draft ‘expert’ in the country for the past season and then was bid on at 15 by a recruiter from another team? I’d suggest that would cement that he’s pretty much exactly as projected, ie a mid-late first round prospect with some serious attributes and a lot to work on to make the grade

They are all opinions and all those self appointed experts are entitled to them. As are you, of course. Mine is only slightly different (but in BF’s black and white world I guess that makes me a hater )

I hope he succeeds and I’m sure he’ll make some sort of a footballer. I’m just not that excited by him.

He’s also not filling an immediate need unless we can fashion him into a KPD. If he wasn’t a FS and we had pick 15 or 20 I wonder whether we would have selected him?

 

[flipper83]

They are all opinions and all those self appointed experts are entitled to them. As are you, of course. Mine is only slightly different (but in BF’s black and white world I guess that makes me a hater )

I hope he succeeds and I’m sure he’ll make some sort of a footballer. I’m just not that excited by him.

He’s also not filling an immediate need unless we can fashion him into a KPD. If he wasn’t a FS and we had pick 15 or 20 I wonder whether we would have selected him?

I think that's the plan.
Key defenders usually play 100% game time and he has elite endurance coupled with speed that would allow him to keep up with the more explosive forwards.
At 200cm and with a good leap he should be able to get a spoil in on the taller forwards and he attacks packs well and is competitive so has the mindset and aggression to apply himself to shutting down an opposition player.
He is also very quick to recover from marking contests and very agile so will be good when the ball hits the ground.

His profile should make for an elite lockdown defender at the least but obviously then there is the understanding of how to play the role which is something that he will have to develop.

His weaknesses are his contested marking, which I think is more to do to his strength than anything else. His hands are pretty sticky but he sometimes struggles to get 2 hands to the ball in a pack. Hopefully this improves as his strength improves.

His other weakness is his kicking can be inconsistent. I think it could be a bit of a focus/composure thing and hopefully that can improve as well.

 

[scooter600x]

Am I the only one who thinks Croft is a tiny bit overrated? I'd have thought he was a 20-25 range pick.

Since we got a points discount we probably did OK. We ended up using the points equivalent of pick 20.

Anyway there's no rush with the kid. He might not even debut this year, so he's got plenty of time to prove me wrong.

I agree entirely. Is he any different to Archer Reid who went pick 30?
I get he can run and is agile, but he doesn’t seem to ‘grab’ the ball when he marks. Stewy Loewe used to almost squeeze the air out of the ball, Croft lets the ball ‘nestle’ into his hands (much like Josh Schache does). It’s really easy to spoil, all it takes is some body pressure.
Maybe he is a good chance as a defender where he doesn’t have someone trying to spoil him every time.

 

[stefoid]

Am I the only one who thinks Croft is a tiny bit overrated? I'd have thought he was a 20-25 range pick.

Since we got a points discount we probably did OK. We ended up using the points equivalent of pick 20.

Anyway there's no rush with the kid. He might not even debut this year, so he's got plenty of time to prove me wrong.

what picks did we use? adding up a bunch of s**t picks to match the points of a better pick is still a great deal. A gift basically.

We simply dont have room for him up forward. We have too many great tall forwards (god, that still sounds unnatural) So why play him there in the twos? His dad was turned into a defender and he will be turned into a defender. Plus shave his head.

 

[dogwatch]

I think that's the plan.
Key defenders usually play 100% game time and he has elite endurance coupled with speed that would allow him to keep up with the more explosive forwards.
At 200cm and with a good leap he should be able to get a spoil in on the taller forwards and he attacks packs well and is competitive so has the mindset and aggression to apply himself to shutting down an opposition player.
He is also very quick to recover from marking contests and very agile so will be good when the ball hits the ground.

His profile should make for an elite lockdown defender at the least but obviously then there is the understanding of how to play the role which is something that he will have to develop.

His weaknesses are his contested marking, which I think is more to do to his strength than anything else. His hands are pretty sticky but he sometimes struggles to get 2 hands to the ball in a pack. Hopefully this improves as his strength improves.

His other weakness is his kicking can be inconsistent. I think it could be a bit of a focus/composure thing and hopefully that can improve as well.

Thanks flipper. It's good to get a positive read on the kid as a defender rather than what we've been seeing repeatedly in the media - the analysis of him as a prospective KPF.

So the questions will be (1) will he accept/embrace the different role? and (2) how well will he fit that role?

You'd hope and expect he'd fit into any role assigned him at the Dogs even if it is not his first preference. We don't need princesses anywhere on the list. Also he has played a bit as a defender in earlier seasons and his Dad was a defender for most of his Bulldogs career, so the idea shouldn't be new to Jordan.

You've identified his skinny frame and that's a legitimate issue right now, but there's no rush, even if it takes until 2025 or 2026 for him to really show some muscle. His Dad ended up being a pretty chunky sort of player so there's every reason to expect he'll fill out.

Kicking can be a paradox sometimes. Players who have poor DE% as midfielders or poor accuracy shooting for goal can look transformed in defence where they have time to get balanced and don't have the pressure of converting set shots. Many of us were alarmed that Matthew Boyd was going to be HBF but once he was out of the midfield pressure-cooker he had time (and admittedly the experience) to make most of his disposals count. His DE% was suddenly fine.

tl, dr; Croft may be a very different proposition if we develop him as a defender. We'll just need to sit back and see. And be patient.

 

[maddog37]

I agree entirely. Is he any different to Archer Reid who went pick 30?
I get he can run and is agile, but he doesn’t seem to ‘grab’ the ball when he marks. Stewy Loewe used to almost squeeze the air out of the ball, Croft lets the ball ‘nestle’ into his hands (much like Josh Schache does). It’s really easy to spoil, all it takes is some body pressure.
Maybe he is a good chance as a defender where he doesn’t have someone trying to spoil him every time.

His attack on the ball and the man is absolutely chalk and cheese compared to Schache. They are tall and skinny. Comparison ends there.

 

[weltschmerz]

So the questions will be (1) will he accept/embrace the different role? and (2) how well will he fit that role?

You'd hope and expect he'd fit into any role assigned him at the Dogs even if it is not his first preference. We don't need princesses anywhere on the list. Also he has played a bit as a defender in earlier seasons and his Dad was a defender for most of his Bulldogs career, so the idea shouldn't be new to Jordan.

One thing about Jordan as opposed to our other draftees is that he had the chance to sit down and discuss before committing to us. If he was told he’d be used as a defender, and he nominated for us, that’s a good sign.