What's going on with Carlton's list

[Fadge]

West Coast and Adelaide both had disappointing years when not making the top 8, they both made minimal changes and the next year made top 4, one with a new coach who must have "waived a magic wand"

Adelaide finished 14th in 2011 and 10th in 2010

West Coast 16th in 2010 and 11th in 2009

Carlton finished 5th 2011 before having a really bad 2012 (10th, ouch), so that says we’ve had one really bad year in 2012 following steady improvement in the years prior (something the above examples did not). So obviously we think we have the cattle to challenge and have given a new coach 12 months to see for himself, what he can get out of them instead of making rushed decisions on cutting players that he hasn’t had the chance to work with and decide if they belong on the list.

This is another funny thing about Carlton supporters. They see parallels with other clubs who have previously followed a certain path to the top 4 and honestly believe that hey will follow the same path.

Before the start of 2012, it was a parallel with Collingwood, who had played in 3 consecutive finals series befor taking all before them in 2010.

Now, it is a parallel with Adelaide and West Coast, who both leapt into the top 4 with a bullet after finishing outside the top eight the previous year/s. I had also read parallels with Geelong in 2007, who had played finals in consecutive years before having a shocker in 2006, then taking all before them in 2007.

I like your comment '10th, ouch..'. I guess 10th isn't that bad relative to your past decade.

Like many posters have tried to point out to you, we had a terrible year for injuries (especially to key players) and although you dismiss it by saying West Coast and Collingwood had more injuries, we both really know that that isn’t true; but even with that aside, our decision is to show faith in what we have; now you don’t have to agree, but that’s what we have chosen to do because we have deemed the majority of players available over the last few weeks as either not worth it, too expensive, or couldn’t get it done

Now you can huff and puff until you’re blue in the face, and try and convince us as to why you’re right, but we will patiently wait until next year before we bow down to you and thank you for your articulate assessment on our club.

Only Carlton supporters 'know' it isn't true.

 

[Monkey King]

To be pedantic, Monkey King is technically correct on this one.

Carlton had fewer injuries than West Coast and Collingwood, but were more greatly affected because they do not bat anywhere near as deep, have anywhere near as much quality, nor the winning culture as forwardflanker so rightly puts it, as do the Pies and the Eagles.

Nope! Actually had more than both teams. And more importantly, to key positions in the side. Lost our best mids in Murphy, Carrots and Simpson at various times with Judd was carrying injury throughout most of the season. But more tellingly, every key position player and their back-ups; with defenders Laidler, Henderson, Jamison gone at points and then even their replacement in McInnes doing an ACL with White holding it up coming back from injury himself; up forward with Waite, Hampson and Casboult and young fella Mitchell also being injured most of the season; as well as Krezuer and Warnock in the ruck. Carlton used more players than any other club last season. Fact! Geez, imagine Collingwood losing Cloke and Dawes up forward, and then Paine as well, with Reid, Brown, Tarrant and Goldsack for example. Collingwood's injuries weren't a shade on the Blues' and if you lost those players, perhaps you'd have a greater appreciation of your depth.

 

[Breakthelines]

To be pedantic, Monkey King is technically correct on this one.

Carlton had fewer injuries than West Coast and Collingwood, but were more greatly affected because they do not bat anywhere near as deep, have anywhere near as much quality, nor the winning culture as forwardflanker so rightly puts it, as do the Pies and the Eagles.

Yeah I agree.

Amazing how Carlton people seem to think they have a quality list, yet club Legend Robert Walls was just recently saying how rubbish it is. 2013 season will hold all the answers.

 

[Kreuz Control]

This is another funny thing about Carlton supporters. They see parallels with other clubs who have previously followed a certain path to the top 4 and honestly believe that hey will follow the same path.

Before the start of 2012, it was a parallel with Collingwood, who had played in 3 consecutive finals series befor taking all before them in 2010.

Now, it is a parallel with Adelaide and West Coast, who both leapt into the top 4 with a bullet after finishing outside the top eight the previous year/s. I had also read parallels with Geelong in 2007, who had played finals in consecutive years before having a shocker in 2006, then taking all before them in 2007.

I like your comment '10th, ouch..'. I guess 10th isn't that bad relative to your past decade.


Only Carlton supporters 'know' it isn't true.

Ohh Vadge, this is where you let yourself down; you say in one breath that there is no way we will improve, and we are dammed, yet when someone shows you that this is far from the truth (as history shows) we are then deluded as we are drawing parallels between us and other clubs.

We are trying to educate you that it has happened many, many times in the past so your assessment isn’t 100% correct, just like we can’t say with 100% conviction the other way.

Now you can act like a child and say we are stupid, deluded or just put words in our mouths and try to twist what we are saying, but the facts remain that we haven’t even started pre-season and you’re acting like your word is the gospel.

Now sit down, have a coke and chill out, because you’re starting to embarrass yourself

 

[Jeremias]

Yes, I support a team that has played in 7 of the past 11 preliminary Finals, 4 of the past 11 Grand Finals, and only getting stronger.

Only getting stronger in the sense that you've gone backwards in each of the past 3 seasons?

 

[Fadge]

Now you can act like a child and say we are stupid, deluded or just put words in our mouths and try to twist what we are saying, but the facts remain that we haven’t even started pre-season and you’re acting like your word is the gospel.

But it has been four seasons since Carlton have allegedly 'been coming', and to date they have one solitary finals win.

Thems are the cold hard facts.

 

[Fadge]

Only getting stronger in the sense that you've gone backwards in each of the past 3 seasons?

And still finished 6 positions ahead of Carlton in 2012.

 

[Pie in the Sky]

Only getting stronger in the sense that you've gone backwards in each of the past 3 seasons?

Don't think we went backwards in 2010.

 

[Jeremias]

And still finished 6 positions ahead of Carlton in 2012.

I'm aware of that.

Please tell me how Collingwood are "only getting stronger". Really, I'm quite intrigued to read that. Because if we deal with the 'cold hard facts' as you seem hell-bent on doing in this thread rolleyes it would seem that Collingwood are going backwards at a steady rate, rather than getting stronger as you seem to believe.

 

[Jeremias]

Don't think we went backwards in 2010.

Indeed. Clearly I meant since then. Apologies, I can't count.

 

[Kreuz Control]

But it has been four seasons since Carlton have allegedly 'been coming', and to date they have one solitary finals win.

Thems are the cold hard facts.

But it has been four seasons since Carlton have allegedly 'been coming', and to date they have one solitary finals win.

Thems are the cold hard facts.

Correct, but again that's not what we were talking about was it?

 

[Corrosion]

The link below provides an analysis of teams injury lists to the date of July 25th for those of you debating from both sides of the fence. I'm not sure what ours or Collingwood's injury list was after July 25th, but both suffered greatly, along with West Coast (Moreso than Essendon in fact) throughout the entire season.

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=142503

 

[Stamos]

Carlton's injury was significantly less than both WC and Collingwood. This was well documented. Carlton are not a top four side - never were.

Collingwood's was in the same realm no doubt, but West Coast's wasn't even close

 

[chunkylover53]

Out of all the teams best 22 that were unavailable throughout the year. Collingwood, WCE and Carlton would all be on par. Collingwood slightly worse than others. However, Collingwood had decent depth players to come in and step up.
Carltons depth players were injured.

 

[mehow2g]

Carlton has no heart.

A player who has the best genetics and talent named Gibbs does nothing he has no heart at all, then guy got a better player but a far far far less talented player called Robinson charging at the ball and commiting 110% every match.

You're forward line only fires when it doesnt matter all junk time goals Betts and Garlett never step up and lift the team.

The only hope is if Mick can change the mind set of these heartless gutless players.

 

[chunkylover53]

Carlton has no heart.

A player who has the best genetics and talent named Gibbs does nothing he has no heart at all, then guy got a better player but a far far far less talented player called Robinson charging at the ball and commiting 110% every match.

You're forward line only fires when it doesnt matter all junk time goals Betts and Garlett never step up and lift the team.

The only hope is if Mick can change the mind set of these heartless gutless players.

Tend to agree. I think Betts cops it a bit harsh on here. He was one of Carlton's only consistent players this year. His mates Garlett and Yarran though.....

 

[Pat_Footy]

Collingwood's was in the same realm no doubt, but West Coast's wasn't even close

You're kidding right? The quality that Carlton lost wouldn't even make the West Coast best 22.

 

[Kreuz Control]

You're kidding right? The quality that Carlton lost wouldn't even make the West Coast best 22.

You're taking the piss right?

 

[calman]

You're kidding right? The quality that Carlton lost wouldn't even make the West Coast best 22.

and which west coast midfielder would you like to nominate getting a game ahead of marc murphy

 

[Monkey King]

You're kidding right? The quality that Carlton lost wouldn't even make the West Coast best 22.

... junk time goals Betts ...

Wow! You're a pretty provincial lot out west huh?

 

[mediumsizered]

and which west coast midfielder would you like to nominate getting a game ahead of marc murphy

Don't assume Pat's Footy is a West Coast supporter. His post history suggests otherwise.

 

[harmesy 37]

Carlton are mid table cloggers. Mentally fragile, not enough in close toughness, not enough quality finishers in front of goal other than Eddie Betts. Just an overrated list. It is tough watching them and in fact I missed a lot of games in 2012 as I just couldn't bear it any longer.


The media will talk them up again next year as it sells papers. It sells papers because people still care about Carlton despite them being a rubbish team for over 10 years. Carlton could be nearly as big as Collingwood if they won stuff, but i give them no hope in 2013. Might scrape into 6-8th position....and that is with luck on their side.

Relies on people like Waite- who hasn't delivered anything worthwhile on a consistent basis in over 5 years. Getting rid of some of the fringe players such as Bower (who got a lot of games in 2012 for what reason i do not know) was a good start though.

 

[LordLucifer]

Carlton are mid table cloggers. Mentally fragile, not enough in close toughness, not enough quality finishers in front of goal other than Eddie Betts. Just an overrated list. It is tough watching them and in fact I missed a lot of games in 2012 as I just couldn't bear it any longer.


The media will talk them up again next year as it sells papers. It sells papers because people still care about Carlton despite them being a rubbish team for over 10 years. Carlton could be nearly as big as Collingwood if they won stuff, but i give them no hope in 2013. Might scrape into 6-8th position....and that is with luck on their side.

Relies on people like Waite- who hasn't delivered anything worthwhile on a consistent basis in over 5 years. Getting rid of some of the fringe players such as Bower (who got a lot of games in 2012 for what reason i do not know) was a good start though.

Nothing wrong with what is written there in my opinion.

 

[Pat_Footy]

Don't assume Pat's Footy is a West Coast supporter. His post history suggests otherwise.

I say it how it is. I am not bound by some imaginary "West Coast" code.

 

[forwardflanker]

Nope apparently anyone who has criticized Carlton in this thread is a closet Collingwood supporter. I even hear that some Blues supporters, angered at his recent criticism, are claiming that Robert Walls played a game for the Collingwood u19's in the late 1960's. It's all a broader Collingwood conspiracy who have become obsessed with Carlton since their defeats at the hands of the mighty Gold Coast and Port Adelaide.