What's wrong with the AFL ?

[greatwhiteshark]

No one begrudges interstate club success on their merits. If it's a level playing field fine. But it's not and hasn't been for a long time.

It's long been part of the AFL's strategic plan to ensure interstate clubs success. And they have been successful in doing this. And it certainly has made the comp national and grown media rights.

The competition won't be even again until the GWS concessions wash out in about decade.

Absolute garbage mate.
Victorian teams have won 19 flags since 1987, that's 19 out of 30 and including 9 of the last 11 and you think the interstate sides have a leg up??
It is cycles mate, nothing more, nothing less. The fact that some Vic clubs have not won has more to do with too many clubs in Victoria than interstate sides.
The Bulldogs just won only their second flag in their history, the Saints have won one, the poor old Tigers you talk about have won a heap.
Sorry just cannot agree with you on this.

 

[The Dodger]

I think the Rendell/Mifsud affair showed exactly what was wrong back then. Randell was made out to be a card carrying member of the KKK for clumsy statements relating to what he didn't want to see happen. Was sacked and later let back in through the back door when he had taken the fall to make the AFL look hard on racism. That story did not even need to see the light of day. He could have been disciplined behind closed doors and handled far more respectfully to all involved and therefore far more actual respect for their role in helping indigenous players.

but also as mentioned earlier the '05 and original Hall's a good bloke MRP get off was the eye opener as to what was possible.

The Essendon saga showed how far they would go to to make a profit in a nfp business, which included leaving Essendon fans in the lurch right until the last couple of weeks of the season when they decided to ban them from the finals based on **** all new information that wasn't known weeks before. They cooked a report made it sound like the devil's work and if you were to believe half of it they haven't punished Essendon/ or those involved enough. Fans still attended games right up to the last weeks thinking their side had qualified for finals only to find out that isn't the case.
I believe Essendon did a shit load wrong but the AFL treating their fans like that giving hope with Vlad cheering them from the sidelines with "yous are just jelly" and calling Kia etc was pretty bad.

Being honest with people some times costs money...a want... not a need... that the AFL doesn't believe it can afford.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

I genuinely feel for success starved fans of other clubs as GWS are almost certain to dominate the comp for the next few years.

If GWS are as successful as the AFL plan while Sydney continue to compete (missing only 3 finals series in 20 years) - there is little room for clubs like Richmond to succeed.

I've watched my 40 yr old Tiges fan brother who has been a member for twenty years see his club win 2 or 3 finals in over 30 odd years of supporting. He has had enough - he can't see light at the end of the tunnel - he just sees the AFL setting up a club that will likely win more finals in its first six or seven years than he has seen his club win in half a life time.

Dribble
Dribble
And more dribble

Richmond made the finals, what, twice between 1982 and 2011? Then my club was introduced in 2012 and after that Richmond made the finals three years in a row. Exactly how did the introduction of my team adversely affect Richmond's fortunes?

The Bulldogs won the whole kit and kaboodle this year.

What was their excuse for the 50 odd years prior to the introduction of my club? Certainly our introduction doesn't seem to have adversely affected their fortunes either. They couldn't seem to win bugger all before we existed. Now that we do, they have a Cup in their cabinet and a flag to unfurl in a couple of months.

And saying that we will dominate for the next decade ignores the obvious reality of professional sports. But hey, we live in a post-truth world now, so never let reality get in the way of a good scare campaign.

You simply can NOT blame some teams patheticness and decades long lack of success on our existence.

You just look stupid trying.

 

[BRWB]

Absolute garbage mate.
Victorian teams have won 19 flags since 1987, that's 19 out of 30 and including 9 of the last 11 and you think the interstate sides have a leg up??
It is cycles mate, nothing more, nothing less. The fact that some Vic clubs have not won has more to do with too many clubs in Victoria than interstate sides.
The Bulldogs just won only their second flag in their history, the Saints have won one, the poor old Tigers you talk about have won a heap.
Sorry just cannot agree with you on this.

Well I disagree. Here is why. No interstate team was anticipated to win a flag within five years of startup. And it takes about a decade for startup concessions to wash out.

So from 1992 - 5 years post startup for the Eagles and Bears through to 2007 - 10 years after the last interstate team (Port Power) entered - guess how many interstate flags there are in that 16 year period? 10! 6 out of 16 teams won almost two thirds of the flags on offer as part of the AFL's plan. Four of those flags went to teams with a bigger salary cap than everyone else. Oh and of the Vic teams that won flags - North got two due to having the greatest player ever; Carlton got one by cheating the cap and Essendon got two and also cheated the cap.

Yep since 2007 the concessions have washed out and balance returned. But guess what? GWS' five years are up in 2017 and they are likely set for multiple flags until their concessions wash out

And what did the AFL do when they saw how Geelong was helped significantly by getting Ablett (x2), Scarlett and Hawkins cheaply via father son? In 2007 the father son laws were tightened up to prevent such an advantage reccurring.

In 2008 Hawthorn win with innovative tactics. The AFL then introduces the rushed point rule to smack that.

Then despite these changes Hawthorn and Geelong dominate. So what happens next? Somehow Hawthorn and Geelong's best players (Franklin and Ablett) end up at interstate clubs - the plan was for both to end up at the start up clubs. Sydney abused it's COLA to spoil that plan. (And were then banned from trading by he AFL).

So actually there aren't any cycles - just who the AFL has decided will win - winning. It is a clear and documented strategy by the AFL.

IMO the rigging of a competition by a governing body has been unprecedented in world sport. The AFL don't even deny it though they use different words.

It really is quite sickening and I'm not surprised fans are dropping off.

Dribble
Dribble
And more dribble

Richmond made the finals, what, twice between 1982 and 2011? Then my club was introduced in 2012 and after that Richmond made the finals three years in a row. Exactly how did the introduction of my team adversely affect Richmond's fortunes?

The Bulldogs won the whole kit and kaboodle this year.

What was their excuse for the 50 odd years prior to the introduction of my club? Certainly our introduction doesn't seem to have adversely affected their fortunes either. They couldn't seem to win bugger all before we existed. Now that we do, they have a Cup in their cabinet and a flag to unfurl in a couple of months.

And saying that we will dominate for the next decade ignores the obvious reality of professional sports. But hey, we live in a post-truth world now, so never let reality get in the way of a good scare campaign.

You simply can NOT blame some teams patheticness and decades long lack of success on our existence.

You just look stupid trying.

The GWS concessions and their likely progression to multiple flags (and WC, Crows and Lions did it with less concessions than GWS so yeah it's likely) is just the straw that is breaking the camels back.

You can squeal drivel and imply I'm stupid all you like mate - it doesn't change the facts.

 

[SBYM]

Exactly how did the introduction of my team adversely affect Richmond's fortunes?

I heard from a physio's sister that Richmond lost the '13 EF because the playing group was miffed about GWS' concessions and couldn't concentrate.

 

[Benny78]

AFL is a closet gay sausagefest thing. If you've ever played local footy most of us get on the shard and play stacks on together in the locker room post game. AFL players take it one step further ridding all body hair to project feminine aspects towards one another. Coining such terms as "goes about it" "the boys" and "the boys".

There's nothing wrong with it. You just need to be tolerant of aussie rules and understand what you may consider controversial may simply be a way of life to others.

 

[Bokonon_]

Well I disagree. Here is why. No interstate team was anticipated to win a flag within five years of startup. And it takes about a decade for startup concessions to wash out.

So from 1992 - 5 years post startup for the Eagles and Bears through to 2007 - 10 years after the last interstate team (Port Power) entered - guess how many interstate flags there are in that 16 year period? 10! 6 out of 16 teams won almost two thirds of the flags on offer as part of the AFL's plan. Four of those flags went to teams with a bigger salary cap than everyone else. Oh and of the Vic teams that won flags - North got two due to having the greatest player ever; Carlton got one by cheating the cap and Essendon got two and also cheated the cap.

Yep since 2007 the concessions have washed out and balance returned. But guess what? GWS' five years are up in 2017 and they are likely set for multiple flags until their concessions wash out

And what did the AFL do when they saw how Geelong was helped significantly by getting Ablett (x2), Scarlett and Hawkins cheaply via father son? In 2007 the father son laws were tightened up to prevent such an advantage reccurring.

In 2008 Hawthorn win with innovative tactics. The AFL then introduces the rushed point rule to smack that.

Then despite these changes Hawthorn and Geelong dominate. So what happens next? Somehow Hawthorn and Geelong's best players (Franklin and Ablett) end up at interstate clubs - the plan was for both to end up at the start up clubs. Sydney abused it's COLA to spoil that plan. (And were then banned from trading by he AFL).

So actually there aren't any cycles - just who the AFL has decided will win - winning. It is a clear and documented strategy by the AFL.

IMO the rigging of a competition by a governing body has been unprecedented in world sport. The AFL don't even deny it though they use different words.

It really is quite sickening and I'm not surprised fans are dropping off.



The GWS concessions and their likely progression to multiple flags (and WC, Crows and Lions did it with less concessions than GWS so yeah it's likely) is just the straw that is breaking the camels back.

You can squeal drivel and imply I'm stupid all you like mate - it doesn't change the facts.

WC were a virual WA state side on entry, in a state with a very strong local comp. To say they had less concessions than we did is disengenuous at best. The others it's more complicated but you cant make like for like comparisons with any.

 

[footyfan1978]

WC were a virual WA state side on entry, in a state with a very strong local comp. To say they had less concessions than we did is disengenuous at best. The others it's more complicated but you cant make like for like comparisons with any.

This myth seems to have legs on this forum and can only assume it is a looking backwards from many that were not watching league football at the time and it is a convenient assumption to make.
It is not even close to accurate.
At the end of 1986 these are some of the West Aussie players in the league at various clubs:

Wayne Blackwell (Car)
Ken Hunter (Car)
Warren Ralph (Car)
Jon Dorotich (Car)
*Peter Bosustow was trying to get a clearance back to Carlton from his WAFL club but financial terms were not agreed on so he had to stay in WAFL footy.

Michael Richardson (Coll)
Leon Baker (Ess)
Billy Duckworth (Ess)
Dean Turner (Fitz)
Simon Beasley (Foot)
Brad Hardie (Foot)
Murray Rance (Foot)
Andrew Purser (Foot)
Gary Malarkey (Geel)
Gary Buckenara (Haw)
Ken Judge (Haw)
Rod Lester-Smith (Haw)
Alan Johnson (Melb)
Jim Krakouer (Nth)
Phil Krakoeur (Nth)
Stephen McCann (Nth)
Ross Glendinning (Nth)
John Annear (Rich)
Maurice Rioli (Rich) probably originally from NT but played WAFL for long time
Phil Egan (Rich)
Phil Narkle (St.K)
Craig Holden (Syd)
John Ironmonger (Syd)

Now back in WAFL at the time there would have been guys like Brian Peake well over 30, Stephen Michael I am sure , plus others like Bosustow, Geoff Miles, Rob Wiley and Stephen Malaxos that had played a few seasons in VFL but went back home to Perth and would have been playing WAFL in 1986 and I suspect all worthy state players.

Now out of all these WA football names of this time only a handful went to West Coast Eagles in 1987, on entry into the league. Glendinning the biggest name and Annear went from Richmond to Eagles and guys like Murray Rance and Phil Narkle too. Malaxos and Miles come back to VFL but now with the WA based Eagles.

Furthermore have a look at all the WA recruits to Vic based clubs in 1987 in same year Eagles entered.
Mark Bairstow to Geelong, Nicky Winmar to St.Kilda, Earl Spalding to Melbourne, Warren Dean to Melbourne, Richard Dennis to Carlton, Peter Sartori to Carlton, Michael Mitchell to Richmond, Peter Wilson to Richmond, Paul Harding to Hawthorn, Cronan to St.Kilda and Wayne Henwood to Sydney.

There is just no way when you properly look at it we can call West Coast Eagles a state side entry in 1987.

Way too many other WA quality players spread across the league in 1987 for it to be anything like a state side.

If Eagles had got Buckenara, Winmar, Hunter, Baker, Judge, Bairstow, Hardie, Johnson, Rioli, Malarkey, Duckworth, Blackwell and a few more, it might had some half truth to such a myth.

 

[Bokonon_]

This myth seems to have legs on this forum and can only assume it is a looking backwards from many that were not watching league football at the time and it is a convenient assumption to make.
It is not even close to accurate.
At the end of 1986 these are some of the West Aussie players in the league at various clubs:

Wayne Blackwell (Car)
Ken Hunter (Car)
Warren Ralph (Car)
Jon Dorotich (Car)
*Peter Bosustow was trying to get a clearance back to Carlton from his WAFL club but financial terms were not agreed on so he had to stay in WAFL footy.

Michael Richardson (Coll)
Leon Baker (Ess)
Billy Duckworth (Ess)
Dean Turner (Fitz)
Simon Beasley (Foot)
Brad Hardie (Foot)
Murray Rance (Foot)
Andrew Purser (Foot)
Gary Malarkey (Geel)
Gary Buckenara (Haw)
Ken Judge (Haw)
Rod Lester-Smith (Haw)
Alan Johnson (Haw)
Jim Krakouer (Nth)
Phil Krakoeur (Nth)
Stephen McCann (Nth)
Ross Glendinning (Nth)
John Annear (Rich)
Maurice Rioli (Rich) probably originally from NT but played WAFL for long time
Phil Egan (Rich)
Phil Narkle (St.K)
Craig Holden (Syd)
John Ironmonger (Syd)

Now back in WAFL at the time there would have been guys like Brian Peake well over 30, Stephen Michael I am sure , plus others like Bosustow, Geoff Miles, Rob Wiley and Stephen Malaxos that had played a few seasons in VFL but went back home to Perth and would have been playing WAFL in 1986 and I suspect all worthy state players.

Now out of all these WA football names of this time only a handful went to West Coast Eagles in 1987, on entry into the league. Glendinning the biggest name and Annear went from Richmond to Eagles and guys like Murray Rance and Phil Narkle too. Malaxos and Miles come back to VFL but now with the WA based Eagles.

Furthermore have a look at all the WA recruits to Vic based clubs in 1987 in same year Eagles entered.
Mark Bairstow to Geelong, Nicky Winmar to St.Kilda, Earl Spalding to Melbourne, Warren Dean to Melbourne, Richard Dennis to Carlton, Peter Sartori to Carlton, Michael Mitchell to Richmond, Peter Wilson to Richmond, Paul Harding to Hawthorn, Cronan to St.Kilda and Wayne Henwood to Sydney.

There is just no way when you properly look at it we can call West Coast Eagles a state side entry in 1987.

Way too many other WA quality players spread across the league in 1987 for it to be anything like a state side.

If Eagles had got Buckenara, Winmar, Hunter, Baker, Judge, Bairstow, Hardie, Johnson, Rioli, Malarkey, Duckworth, Blackwell and a few more, it might had some half truth to such a myth.

It isn"t a myth. I was always aware and was watching footy at the time.
I didn't mention players playing in the VFL it's true As for the Crows the players playing interstate or contras cted to didn't come home.
It's also true they had the entire playing group of the WAFL to select from. They were a much more frightening proposition entry that we were.

 

[footyfan1978]

It isn"t a myth. I was always aware and was watching footy at the time.
I didn't mention players playing in the VFL it's true As for the Crows the players playing interstate or contras cted to didn't come home.
It's also true they had the entire playing group of the WAFL to select from. They were a much more frightening proposition entry that we were.

nah, first off , nothing like a state side and not scary at all. There is just no way you can call Eagles 87 start up squad a state side when you look properly at it like I just done. Absolute myth.
Take a look at those players of the period. Bloody hell, if Eagles had of got Buckenara, Winmar, Baker, Bairstow and others, then it would have been scary. Nevertheless They were well set up for sure but not the same made to order concessions GWS got that they have handled beautifully. GWS genuinely have got a squad to be in 5 or 6 grand finals and win multiple premierships if they manage their players well. They have managed their list very well to this point. It is not given they win 4 or 5 premierships as some try to make out but they are the team and club as the benchmark to beat for the premierships to end of this decade and start of the next.

 

[Bokonon_]

nah, first off , nothing like a state side and not scary at all. There is just no way you can call Eagles 87 start up squad a state side when you look properly at it like I just done. Take a look at those players of the period. Bloody hell, if Eagles had of got Buckenara, Winmar, Baker, Bairstow and others, then it would have been scary. Nevertheless They were well set up for sure but not the same made to order concessions GWS got that they have handled beautifully. GWS genuinely have got a squad to be in 5 or 6 grand finals and win multiple premierships if they manage their players well. They have managed their list very well to this point. It is not given they win 4 or 5 premierships as some try to make out but they are the team and club as the benchmark to beat for the premierships to end of this decade and start of the next.

I didn't ever call it a state of origin squad.
They were able to select a balanced squad from day one. It took the club, which was a new creation, some time to get it's act together. That's hardly surprising, when it did a major motivation to create Freo was to dilute the talent available long term so they didn't dominate in perpetuity.
I was around at the time and am in no doubt they were a more frightening proposition. Our concessions are start up only, excluding the academies. The fact we have a stream of takent coming from them goes to my original point of the club administration exceeding expectations

 

[footyfan1978]

I didn't ever call it a state of origin squad.

I know. You called them a virtual state side on entry. That is where it is a total myth.
They were nothing like a state side. Seriously, look at all those players I listed that Eagles did not have that were West Aussie footballers then. They had nothing like a state side themselves. They had a decent club side and nothing more or less.

 

[Bokonon_]

I know. You called them a virtual state side on entry. That is where it is a total myth.
They were nothing like a state side. Seriously, look at all those players I listed that Eagles did not have that were West Aussie footballers then. They had nothing like a state side themselves. They had a decent club side and nothing more or less.

Think we're going to have to disagree on this one. I agree they had lost a lot of talent from the WAFL, and pushed really hard to join the VFL so they could keep them home. They still had a high standard competition to recruit from, and did. The Crows had the same but a far from unified SA league, and a much more difficult birth.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Think we're going to have to disagree on this one. I agree they had lost a lot of talent from the WAFL, and pushed really hard to join the VFL so they could keep them home. They still had a high standard competition to recruit from, and did. The Crows had the same but a far from unified SA league, and a much more difficult birth.

You need to do a bit more research, the WAFL clubs hated the Eagles and would not let them near a league ground to even train, they trained in parks with no change rooms, trainers operating out of vans. They had no club other than a name. Then when they played in melbourne the nice clubs there gave them cold showers, took wind socks down etc. they had to play home finals in Melbourne. The Eagles did not do it easy at all.
Yes there was enough talent to be competitive out of the WAFL but you must remember when the VFL accepted there license in 86 they then went and got all the best players out of the WAFL one last time.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Well I disagree. Here is why. No interstate team was anticipated to win a flag within five years of startup. And it takes about a decade for startup concessions to wash out.

So from 1992 - 5 years post startup for the Eagles and Bears through to 2007 - 10 years after the last interstate team (Port Power) entered - guess how many interstate flags there are in that 16 year period? 10! 6 out of 16 teams won almost two thirds of the flags on offer as part of the AFL's plan. Four of those flags went to teams with a bigger salary cap than everyone else. Oh and of the Vic teams that won flags - North got two due to having the greatest player ever; Carlton got one by cheating the cap and Essendon got two and also cheated the cap.

Yep since 2007 the concessions have washed out and balance returned. But guess what? GWS' five years are up in 2017 and they are likely set for multiple flags until their concessions wash out

And what did the AFL do when they saw how Geelong was helped significantly by getting Ablett (x2), Scarlett and Hawkins cheaply via father son? In 2007 the father son laws were tightened up to prevent such an advantage reccurring.

In 2008 Hawthorn win with innovative tactics. The AFL then introduces the rushed point rule to smack that.

Then despite these changes Hawthorn and Geelong dominate. So what happens next? Somehow Hawthorn and Geelong's best players (Franklin and Ablett) end up at interstate clubs - the plan was for both to end up at the start up clubs. Sydney abused it's COLA to spoil that plan. (And were then banned from trading by he AFL).

So actually there aren't any cycles - just who the AFL has decided will win - winning. It is a clear and documented strategy by the AFL.

IMO the rigging of a competition by a governing body has been unprecedented in world sport. The AFL don't even deny it though they use different words.

It really is quite sickening and I'm not surprised fans are dropping off.



The GWS concessions and their likely progression to multiple flags (and WC, Crows and Lions did it with less concessions than GWS so yeah it's likely) is just the straw that is breaking the camels back.

You can squeal drivel and imply I'm stupid all you like mate - it doesn't change the facts.

Mate I am not calling you stupid at all but seriously the VFL is dead, it is a national comp and yearly the flag will not be won by a Vic club. They win there fair share and so they should just as sides from outside of Victoria do.
So how did the Hawks win 3 in a row against all these odds? Or Geelong do so well?
There is no guarantee GWS will win even one flag let alone multiple. You are holding on to an era that is long gone.
I agree with you the AFL is corrupt and many things you say but these are not the reasons every Victorian club is not sharing in premierships. The AFL is pro Victorian clubs, if it wasn't then a few of them would be gone by now.
Sometimes I sit there and wish the WAFL was king in my state, but it's not and we have anational comp now. New clubs must have concessions to start, yes some are to much but it is what it is.
If GWS or GoldCoast win the next 5 flags between them then I will come back and agree with you.
But it won't happen

 

[Bokonon_]

You need to do a bit more research, the WAFL clubs hated the Eagles and would not let them near a league ground to even train, they trained in parks with no change rooms, trainers operating out of vans. They had no club other than a name. Then when they played in melbourne the nice clubs there gave them cold showers, took wind socks down etc. they had to play home finals in Melbourne. The Eagles did not do it easy at all.
Yes there was enough talent to be competitive out of the WAFL but you must remember when the VFL accepted there license in 86 they then went and got all the best players out of the WAFL one last time.

Fair enough
I've never professed a great knowledge of the WAFL. I know your a serious poster, as is footyfan78, and will defer on a topic you know more than me.
What would you say on my primary point that the WC entry was scarier to the rest of comp than the Giants?

Edit: I wasn't aware of the shower or the windsock things. That was interesting to read.It might even make my point about the VFL clubs being threatened. Dont think resentment of us has approached that level yet.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Fair enough
I've never professed a great knowledge of the WAFL. I know your a serious poster, as is footyfan78, and will defer on a topic you know more than me.
What would you say on my primary point that the WC entry was scarier to the rest of comp than the Giants?

The Vics were shit scared of it but it never panned out that way, Sheedy thought it was a monster and they did what they could to keep it at bay. They were scary because it was a strong footy state, as were the Crows but they were lucky enough to have seen the Eagles be Guinea pigs and learnt a bit.

 

[Bokonon_]

The Vics were shit scared of it but it never panned out that way, Sheedy thought it was a monster and they did what they could to keep it at bay. They were scary because it was a strong footy state, as were the Crows but they were lucky enough to have seen the Eagles be Guinea pigs and learnt a bit.

Tks
That was pretty much my pèrception but yours is a lot more knowleagable. Strange that Sheedy, who will always be in our hall of fame, was the traditionalist in that one.

 

[Bokonon_]

Mate I am not calling you stupid at all but seriously the VFL is dead, it is a national comp and yearly the flag will not be won by a Vic club. They win there fair share and so they should just as sides from outside of Victoria do.
So how did the Hawks win 3 in a row against all these odds? Or Geelong do so well?
There is no guarantee GWS will win even one flag let alone multiple. You are holding on to an era that is long gone.
I agree with you the AFL is corrupt and many things you say but these are not the reasons every Victorian club is not sharing in premierships. The AFL is pro Victorian clubs, if it wasn't then a few of them would be gone by now.
Sometimes I sit there and wish the WAFL was king in my state, but it's not and we have anational comp now. New clubs must have concessions to start, yes some are to much but it is what it is.
If GWS or GoldCoast win the next 5 flags between them then I will come back and agree with you.
But it won't happen

I agree on this BTW, we have a chance to be competitive, long way from there to multiple flags. I'm sure we'ĺl be trying though.

 

[Percel]

Yeah...what was it he did again? For us less informed types...

It was a non-AFL sanctioned version of the electric boogaloo.

 

[BRWB]

Mate I am not calling you stupid at all but seriously the VFL is dead, it is a national comp and yearly the flag will not be won by a Vic club. They win there fair share and so they should just as sides from outside of Victoria do.
So how did the Hawks win 3 in a row against all these odds? Or Geelong do so well?
There is no guarantee GWS will win even one flag let alone multiple. You are holding on to an era that is long gone.
I agree with you the AFL is corrupt and many things you say but these are not the reasons every Victorian club is not sharing in premierships. The AFL is pro Victorian clubs, if it wasn't then a few of them would be gone by now.
Sometimes I sit there and wish the WAFL was king in my state, but it's not and we have anational comp now. New clubs must have concessions to start, yes some are to much but it is what it is.
If GWS or GoldCoast win the next 5 flags between them then I will come back and agree with you.
But it won't happen

Agree to disagree on some stuff..

The Hawks largely won three in a row because of a confluence of events. 1 - The greatest coach I've seen; 2 - Free Agency coming in that allowed higher clubs to stay up longer; and most importantly 3 - Every club's list builds were essentially stalled for three years while the new clubs entered

IMO The motivation for the AFL is neither pro Victorian or pro Interstate - it is pro money, which when combined with largely self regulation is a recipe for corruption. But long ago the AFL determined that having a strong national competition - ie ensuring the success of non Vic clubs was the best way to maximise revenue. And on money terms they were right. The collateral damage is that more than a few supporters were disheartened due to the non level playing field for many years while these clubs entered with concessions and then waiting a decade for them to wash out. The GWS story is just the cherry on top of that cake of discontent.

Sure its fantastic we have a few new supporters of these latest start up teams and the associated increased media rights. But the cost of that is many fans find it hard to see how their club can actually win a flag any time soon.

Ironically, the Dogs are the exception that proves the rule. We were incredibly smart/lucky from getting Wallis and Libba via father son in a compromised draft, drafting guns via the rookie draft, lucky that our few high picks were all guns and mostly injury free, and then hiring a novice coach who turned out to be a gun.

We will wait and see but I will be very surprised if GWS don't win at least two of the next five flags.

 

[vozzon]

Agree to disagree on some stuff..

The Hawks largely won three in a row because of a confluence of events. 1 - The greatest coach I've seen; 2 - Free Agency coming in that allowed higher clubs to stay up longer; and most importantly 3 - Every club's list builds were essentially stalled for three years while the new clubs entered

IMO The motivation for the AFL is neither pro Victorian or pro Interstate - it is pro money, which when combined with largely self regulation is a recipe for corruption. But long ago the AFL determined that having a strong national competition - ie ensuring the success of non Vic clubs was the best way to maximise revenue. And on money terms they were right. The collateral damage is that more than a few supporters were disheartened due to the non level playing field for many years while these clubs entered with concessions and then waiting a decade for them to wash out. The GWS story is just the cherry on top of that cake of discontent.

Sure its fantastic we have a few new supporters of these latest start up teams and the associated increased media rights. But the cost of that is many fans find it hard to see how their club can actually win a flag any time soon.

Ironically, the Dogs are the exception that proves the rule. We were incredibly smart/lucky from getting Wallis and Libba via father son in a compromised draft, drafting guns via the rookie draft, lucky that our few high picks were all guns and mostly injury free, and then hiring a novice coach who turned out to be a gun.

We will wait and see but I will be very surprised if GWS don't win at least two of the next five flags.

Great call and 2nd everything you mentioned. Luck is always involved but you would think people behind the scenes running the clubs helped with outcome.

Also Hunter was a good F/S recruit as well. You guys are the last of the teams to really benefit from the old F/S rules.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Agree to disagree on some stuff..

The Hawks largely won three in a row because of a confluence of events. 1 - The greatest coach I've seen; 2 - Free Agency coming in that allowed higher clubs to stay up longer; and most importantly 3 - Every club's list builds were essentially stalled for three years while the new clubs entered

IMO The motivation for the AFL is neither pro Victorian or pro Interstate - it is pro money, which when combined with largely self regulation is a recipe for corruption. But long ago the AFL determined that having a strong national competition - ie ensuring the success of non Vic clubs was the best way to maximise revenue. And on money terms they were right. The collateral damage is that more than a few supporters were disheartened due to the non level playing field for many years while these clubs entered with concessions and then waiting a decade for them to wash out. The GWS story is just the cherry on top of that cake of discontent.

Sure its fantastic we have a few new supporters of these latest start up teams and the associated increased media rights. But the cost of that is many fans find it hard to see how their club can actually win a flag any time soon.

Ironically, the Dogs are the exception that proves the rule. We were incredibly smart/lucky from getting Wallis and Libba via father son in a compromised draft, drafting guns via the rookie draft, lucky that our few high picks were all guns and mostly injury free, and then hiring a novice coach who turned out to be a gun.

We will wait and see but I will be very surprised if GWS don't win at least two of the next five flags.

So can you tell me how you would start a new side?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The competition won't be even again until the GWS concessions wash out in about decade.

Assuming the academies wash out too

Completely agree with your first point

 

[footyfan1978]

Think we're going to have to disagree on this one. I agree they had lost a lot of talent from the WAFL, and pushed really hard to join the VFL so they could keep them home. They still had a high standard competition to recruit from, and did.

We will disagree on the status of Eagles start up entry squad.
Ha ha had a moment just then of looking up the first game I went to against Eagles.
Brings back good memories of the Dominator 7 goals in this game.
See a young Silvagni too in his teenage years.


They did have a good standard competition to recruit from. It is why despite not having anything like a state side in 1987, they managed to build a list over 5 years to play in their first grand final in 1991.
All those youngsters still developing like Chris Lewis and Worsfold that were teenagers when Eagles started up and the ones to come into their list in coming seasons would develop into a quality team and premiership contenders. They had good concessions as they should have to build their team up over 3 or 4 seasons of mostly the best teenagers coming up through West Australia in mid to late 80's. The kicker was it just happened to be good timing there was a really good batch coming through at right time of Sumich, Worsfold, Matera, Kemp, Pyke, Langdon, McKenna, Lewis, Evans and Heady.

Will make a good comparison in years to come with Giants teenagers in their first few years of Cameron, Shiel, Greene, Smith, Patton, Coniglio, Haynes, Tomlinson, Whitfield and Kelly.
A Steve Johnson suspension was probably the only thing stopping Giants equalling Eagles of reaching a grand final in their 5th season.