Banter Who will be better in 2024? Carlton or Collingwood? Part 2

[GoPies1]

Generated a culture at all the clubs he's been where players take less then market value to keep the team together. Weitering spoke about this in a recent interview.

So far we haven't lost anyone to another club we've really wanted to keep and aren't paying any players to play for other clubs. Hopefully it continues.

That line was used at Geelong, but the land deals and innuendo have carried on since the late 2000’s down there.
Brisbane of the three peat was questioned as well.
I’m just putting out a theory I came about recently when reviewing their list build and timing.

 

[GoPies1]

Landing Brian Cook was one of Carlton's best recruitment moves of the past 30 years.

As it was for Geelong. And West Coast.

West Coast - the drug era?
They did win a flag though.
You are right- it’s the single best thing they have done to break away from the Jack Elliott legacy of financial planning

 

[Mr Meow]

West Coast - the drug era?
They did win a flag though.
You are right- it’s the single best thing they have done to break away from the Jack Elliott legacy of financial planning

Under Cook's leadership West Coast quadrupled membership, won two flags and made another grand final while cementing themselves as a serious club and having massive revenue. As a CEO I'd say that's a tick. He helped make them probably the only interstate team that could be considered a "big club".

Then turned Geelong from a basket case into a serious club.

Carlton are relevant and ominous once again now and should be challenging for flags for a while.

Oh but "there's innuendo". My bad. He's a fraud and a criminal then.

 

[manicpie]

Ashcroft is an outstanding mid also Kiddy Coleman very crucial. Had extended injuries to Bailey and Stacevich, Also Gardiner Dodee and Mccarthy. Lets not pretend they arent hit hard.

Big deal. Fmd, enough with the Brisbane sob stories. We've had major players out all year and we've still only lost once in the last 9 weeks. Dodee was a risk who hasn't even played a game. McCarthy is just an average player as is Gardiner. Coleman and Bailey are the only ones of any note.

 

[Worm4]

I’m interested / have a theory in the turnaround at Carlton since they got Cook!
They were a Basket case of late trying to work out how to win without salary cap cheating as they did until caught in 2002.
Cookie comes in and all the high profile players are signed up on longterm large $ contracts.
Very similar to the Geelong model but we all knew how good he was at property speculation back then.
There are some very powerful businesses associated with Carlton- will come to light eventually.

Hope you enjoyed your little holiday
Are you insinuating that Carlton are doing dodgy deals again?

 

[carlton_99]

Big deal. Fmd, enough with the Brisbane sob stories. We've had major players out all year and we've still only lost once in the last 9 weeks. Dodee was a risk who hasn't even played a game. McCarthy is just an average player as is Gardiner. Coleman and Bailey are the only ones of any note.

You know recognising other team's injury issues doesn't minimise the injury issues your club has?

 

[Robertio]

West Coast - the drug era?
They did win a flag though.
You are right- it’s the single best thing they have done to break away from the Jack Elliott legacy of financial planning

All this has what to do with the thread title?

 

[Worm4]

I've loved their performances for most of my adult life.

You're an adult ?

 

[GoPies1]

All this has what to do with the thread title?

Yes!
It’s about on ground performance of these 2 teams and team and player management is paramount to the discussion.
Look how Carlton crumbled after getting caught in 2002!
There were years of speculation up until that point.
Now they are back competing again suddenly ?

 

[Holden Megroin]

You know recognising other team's injury issues doesn't minimise the injury issues your club has?

Especially dismissing Ashcroft being out as no big deal.

 

[carlton_99]

Yes!
It’s about on ground performance of these 2 teams and team and player management is paramount to the discussion.
Look how Carlton crumbled after getting caught in 2002!
There were years of speculation up until that point.
Now they are back competing again suddenly ?

You did not just say "suddenly"...

 

[manicpie]

Especially dismissing Ashcroft being out as no big deal.

Go back to Brisbane. You ain't fooling anyone with your fake account. Brisbane were too shit to beat us in the grand final and are still sulking. Ashcroft, lol.

 

[GoPies1]

You did not just say "suddenly"...

Yeah, 2022 and 2023!
9 yrs before that was nothing.
I’m granting 2022 because the played a half year of decent footy, same as 2023!
Which is what they have done so far in 2024

 

[Robertio]

Yes!
It’s about on ground performance of these 2 teams and team and player management is paramount to the discussion.
Look how Carlton crumbled after getting caught in 2002!
There were years of speculation up until that point.
Now they are back competing again suddenly ?

Oh so we must be cheating the salary cap again because you think so, rightio Tiger any chance you have proof?

 

[manicpie]

Oh so we must be cheating the salary cap again because you think so, rightio Tiger any chance you have proof?

Not sure if old mate is taking the piss or not but I seriously doubt anyone is cheating the cap. The AFL have well and truly put an end to that

 

[GoPies1]

Oh so we must be cheating the salary cap again because you think so, rightio Tiger any chance you have proof?

yeah mate
Im an investigative banker!
Seriously- it’s a theory based on what’s occurring

 

[carlton_99]

Yeah, 2022 and 2023!
9 yrs before that was nothing.
I’m granting 2022 because the played a half year of decent footy, same as 2023!
Which is what they have done so far in 2024

Sanctions in 2002 you said. Carlton finally having some success 21 years later in 2023 and that's "sudden" to you?

 

[GoPies1]

Not sure if old mate is taking the piss or not but I seriously doubt anyone is cheating the cap. The AFL have well and truly put an end to that

No way it’s been put to bed!
These organisations only get better at hiding it.

Do you think the NRL is clean?

It’s just who does it better, and Carlton have some amazing business acumen behind it, including all the pokies income to fund

 

[GoPies1]

Sanctions in 2002 you said. Carlton finally having some success 21 years later in 2023 and that's "sudden" to you?

Yes , to go from nothing to where they sit in a cpl of years!
That’s the definition I think - it’s definitely not incremental is it

 

[carlton_99]

Yes , to go from nothing to where they sit in a cpl of years!
That’s the definition I think - it’s definitely not incremental is it

Yep quickest rebuild I can remember...

 

[Robertio]

yeah mate
Im an investigative banker!
Seriously- it’s a theory based on what’s occurring

So that's a no then? You're just throwing stones from the back row of the peanut gallery.

 

[manicpie]

No way it’s been put to bed!
These organisations only get better at hiding it.

Do you think the NRL is clean?

It’s just who does it better, and Carlton have some amazing business acumen behind it, including all the pokies income to fund

Bro, Carlton have been bad for the last decade and are the recipients of quite a few high draft picks, sooner or later these picks start to blossom. Add a few quality recruits and that's the reason why they are starting to flourish

 

[Robertio]

Sanctions in 2002 you said. Carlton finally having some success 21 years later in 2023 and that's "sudden" to you?

Just a lazy 22 years have gone by lol.

 

[Fadge]

Sanctions in 2002 you said. Carlton finally having some success 21 years later in 2023 and that's "sudden" to you?

Two comments:

1. What 'success' is Carlton having?
2. 'Success' 21 years post salary cap breach is much sooner than I would have liked.

 

[Robertio]

Bro, Carlton have been bad for the last decade and are the recipients of quite a few high draft picks, sooner or later these picks start to blossom. Add a few quality recruits and that's the reason why they are starting to flourish

Add to that

De Koning pick 30
Cincotta pre season pick
Boyd mid season draft pick
E Hollands future 3rd round pick
Hewett free agent
Saad who cost us a first round pick

See folks this is why we are 2nd on the ladder.