Autopsy Why don't Collingwood have better key forwards?

[LittleG]

Moore is an excellent CHB. He should be being played there. He isn't strong enough to play KPF and the fact that he is played there is a Buckley size error. He may become a great CHF but why destroy his confidence up forward.
The midfield delivery is poor in most teams, it isn't the reason he needs to play back. Moore was great u18 as a CHB, so it isn't like he doesn't know the position.

Pies should have got rid of Buckley and kept Cloke. Washed up Cloke under the right game plan is far better than White or anyone else on the Pies list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JoondalupJ]

If Nathan Buckley's future at Collingwood does indeed depend on playing finals this season, Collingwood's lack of genuine forwardline targets may be the end of him.

This year, they've played Jesse White at CHF and young Darcy Moore at FF. They've kicked six goals between them from four games each so far. Moore is of course talented and has great athleticism but he's having very little impact and may have been burdened with too much responsibility too soon. And White remains a very limited player prone to jarring lapses. If these guys are Collingwood's key forwards all season, finals are a pipe dream. And that, theoretically, will be the end of Buckley.

My question is: how did it get to this point?

Collingwood have been aggressive in recruiting readymade players and they have a great group of midfielders/running defenders as a result. They've brought in Adams, Treloar, Aish, Greenwood, Hoskin-Elliott, Howe, Varcoe and Crisp, with varying degrees of success. But generally those additions have paid off. And then they recruited Mayne and Wells as free agents. You could argue Mayne's arrival was designed to spread the load in attack but even at his best he wasn't a genuine key forward. He was never going to be more than a 30-goal mid-sizer.

In light of that willingness to top up with readymade players, how did Collingwood end up with such a gaping hole in attack?

Cloke was struggling for a few seasons and his exit came as no great surprise. But why wasn't there a more concerted effort to replace him?

It's not like it came out of the blue. Fasolo led their goal-kicking in 2016 with just 25 goals. In 2015, it was Elliott with 35.

So they're going to need to pull a rabbit out of the hat. Can Goldsack or Reid be repurposed as that extra F50 target? Do they try again with Cox?

The recruiting through the midfield has paid off, but wouldn't Collingwood have been better off snagging a readymade tall forward instead of another runner?

The failure to do that seems likely to end Buckley's career.

I think that the delivery to the forwards is the problem , too many waiting and indecision, this game now you have to be ready and someone has to be available for you, to just move the ball on, if you can't, every one is covered pretty quickly, that is the roboticness of the game now, and a precision trained highly skilled team with the plan in EVERYONES' head, can win for a long long time, Hawthorn learnt that and practised its precision, now each club is doing the same, keepings off , and when it stuffs up, the turnovers are terrible, then you get the 5 million ball ups inside the fifty, where packs of wrestlers roll about until another ball up is called. Skull Murphy would have had a ball, imagine the claw holds of Killer Kowalski in an AFL pack! Or Mark Lwein putting the sleeper hold on Razor Ray!!! WOW.
And it looks like British Bulldog, or a kick goes out and comes straight back because the defending team has 300 Spartans in the back line, no one up front or its deliberate?????????
And their forward line is like a bugs bunny cartoon scene when every thing is vanished and you can only hear a cricket making noise, this is the game now, we need to go back to positions so scrum is a word never heard.
And contesting is allowed, and collision injuries are less?
I'd like to see that!

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I note Ben Reid has been named at CHF this week, with Lynden Dunn and Henry Schade holding down the key defensive posts.

What is this, if not an acknowledgement that the pre-season blueprint has failed and now been abandoned?

It's still only R8, so it might seem like that's happened early. But for Buckley, it may actually be seven weeks too late.

Meanwhile, Chris Pelchen has skewered Collingwood's list management strategy.

In a nutshell: "Collingwood are undoubtedly a proud and successful club but desperate decisions will inevitably cause fragile outcomes and I believe the Magpies have misread their ambitions compared to their abilities, primarily out of loyalty to their coach."

 

[Jeremias]

I note Ben Reid has been named at CHF this week, with Lynden Dunn and Henry Schade holding down the key defensive posts.

What is this, if not an acknowledgement that the pre-season blueprint has failed and now been abandoned?

I legitimately can't tell if you're being serious or not.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I legitimately can't tell if you're being serious or not.

What's your confusion?

The preseason blueprint has failed, hasn't it? That goes for Plan A (Jesse White) and Plan B (Mason Cox). And Buckley has now resorted to moving his best key defender to CHF. Assuming he plays there.

That is an unqualified admission of strategic defeat. You can only wonder why the penny didn't drop earlier.

 

[adammania9]

Their recruiting has been idiotic to say the least since Buckley became coach. I understand the likes of Beams needed replacing but it's like they totally lost their way.

Buckley came in and clearly wanted to exert his influence over the list, was more than happy to break up the Rat pack and go young with players he could mould to play to his standards. It hasn't worked like they expected it to which happens. What I'm completely bemused about is the pickups of Wells and Mayne. They were more than happy to walk out the likes of Heath Shaw out of the club because he apparently didn't fit their age profile and had been painful for Buckley. Yet very clearly their team has lacked leaders and talents like him (I know he wasn't a great leader at Collingwood). So then they go and basically admit they've made some mistakes and bring in two old blokes. It's like they abandoned their recruitment strategy totally because of outside pressure to get wins on the board this year. Wells belongs on a team like Adelaide or GWS gunning for a flag.

The Mayne pickup is just baffling. They need proper key position players. Not a classic Ross Lyon plug a gap player which is what Mayne is.

Yes, key forwards don't grow on trees but they could have drafted Peter Wright and went with De Goey instead. There's no point having a stacked midfield if you've got nobody to kick it to. Yes, they've recruited a lot of blokes with shit disposal but even the ball gets into the forward 50 more than enough for the Pies to hit the scoreboard more than they do. Watching them against my team on Saturday it was clear they make poor decisions going into the forward 50. Doesn't help though when your tall targets are an American import who I think is rubbish and Darcy Moore who at this stage in his career isn't good enough to be relying so heavily on. Carlton as a result let Marchbank play off his man and totally dominate the game in the air as Collingwood tried to kick to short people like Elliot and Fasolo or Moore who isn't going to beat a well structured defence.

Losing Beams and Swan ageing/retiring hurt their midfield but that's no reason to totally ignore such a vital area of the ground. Putting all of their faith in a young Darcy Moore is just unfair on the kid. I watched him last year and thought he looked like a genuine talent. This year he looks devoid of all confidence in his ability. You'd just hope he can bounce back because some kids never do. It took Jack Watts years to recover from the huge confidence hit he took playing in that joke of a Melbourne side where nobody supported him.

Well that is usually what you do when you make a mistake

 

[The Dr]

James Stewart looked really lively for the Bombers tonight vs. Geelong. Makes you wonder why the Pies didn't want to grab him on the cheap as a father-son.

 

[Great8]

James Stewart looked really lively for the Bombers tonight vs. Geelong. Makes you wonder why the Pies didn't want to grab him on the cheap as a father-son.

A lot of Collingwood fans didn't rate him and laughed when we got him.
Will probably never be a superstar but there was a fair bit to like about him tonight and reckon he could be very handy for us as it allows Hooker to go back more

 

[sonnywalters]

Lynden Dunn needs to play every single week down back.
Leave Reid fwd.
Then throw absolutely everything at recruiting a Schache or McCartin.
But Buckley is not smart.
He has had years to something about the fwd line.
What was he thinking?

 

[The Dr]

A lot of Collingwood fans didn't rate him and laughed when we got him.
Will probably never be a superstar but there was a fair bit to like about him tonight and reckon he could be very handy for us as it allows Hooker to go back more

Yeah for sure - he doesn't scream 'superstar' but his height and athleticism make him a pretty handy role player as a KPP at the very least.

 

[branedotorg]

watching moore run reasonable leading patterns while being ignored summed it up to me.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Some chat about Collingwood making a play for Sam Reid from Sydney as a FA.

I wonder if that would solve the problem or be another source of frustration?

 

[Gibbsy]

watching moore run reasonable leading patterns while being ignored summed it up to me.

Can't fault his endeavour. The bloke makes 50 leads a game and might get hit 5 times.

 

[Dicky Fitzwell]

Missed out on Moore black cox

And the VD special - Moore Green Cox

On SM-N910G using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Dicky Fitzwell]

Chris Mayne can fix everything

On SM-N910G using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Rack Watts]

Really impressed by James Stewart tonight.

 

[Orange Agent]

Really impressed by James Stewart tonight.

Really amazing that Pies supporters were quite vocal during trade week that he was rubbish and would play all season in the VFL. Has already topped alleged superstar Darcy Moore's biggest goal haul for the season.

 

[Our Game]

Collingwood are not heading in the right direction under Buckley and the football management The game against GWS was a shocker as GWS played poorly all night and still they managed to win.
Why would you recruit hacks from other clubs like Geeenwood,Lyndan Dunn,Hosken Elliott and Daniel Wells who clearly is not up seniors standard anymore Mayne is also a problem as well and is only a shadow of the player he was.
I think it starts at the top and Eddie cant or dosent want confront the problems starting with Buckley and the football department and maybe its time he also stepped aside and gave someone else a go at the top job.If big changes are not made soon the Woods will have a few more lean years for sure.

 

[Kappa]

James Stewart looked really lively for the Bombers tonight vs. Geelong. Makes you wonder why the Pies didn't want to grab him on the cheap as a father-son.

And exactly how could we grab him "on the cheap" when he was drafted at pick 27...

If he had of slid to a 3rd round back then (which is where he deserved to go but GWS had no more picks after 27) then it might be a different story.

Either way he's just an okay tall forward, not someone to build a forward line around.

 

[Xenthor]

James Stewart is the GOAT

 

[adammania9]

Some chat about Collingwood making a play for Sam Reid from Sydney as a FA.

I wonder if that would solve the problem or be another source of frustration?

He's an upgrade on Jesse White but for a likely 3-4 year, 400-500k p/y deal, I'd rather not. We just need to hit the draft and stop trying to patch over our massive holes.

 

[adammania9]

Collingwood are not heading in the right direction under Buckley and the football management The game against GWS was a shocker as GWS played poorly all night and still they managed to win.
Why would you recruit hacks from other clubs like Geeenwood,Lyndan Dunn,Hosken Elliott and Daniel Wells who clearly is not up seniors standard anymore Mayne is also a problem as well and is only a shadow of the player he was.
I think it starts at the top and Eddie cant or dosent want confront the problems starting with Buckley and the football department and maybe its time he also stepped aside and gave someone else a go at the top job.If big changes are not made soon the Woods will have a few more lean years for sure.

With all due respect, they would all be in your best 22, maybe except Dunn. There are players to point the finger at but they certainly aren't them.

 

[Rack Watts]

James Stewart is the GOAT

His disrespect towards Luke Darcy has him up there for me also.

 

[Dicky Fitzwell]

Bucks says Collingwood can be proud of its game last night. What a peanut

On SM-N910G using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[La Dispute]

And exactly how could we grab him "on the cheap" when he was drafted at pick 27...

If he had of slid to a 3rd round back then (which is where he deserved to go but GWS had no more picks after 27) then it might be a different story.

Either way he's just an okay tall forward, not someone to build a forward line around.

Didn't they have to nominate him? aka they didn't even rate him a national draft selection.

I always liked him at GWS. Had good pace for a big guy and a pretty accurate set shot. Was kind of one-dimensional but played his role and only lost his spot because Rory Lobb came on quickly, could ruck and was better around the ground.

Big discrepancy in how GWS rated him compared to the Collingwood recruiting team.