Will we see a move back to smaller mids in the future?

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Cleric

Cleric

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Oct 14, 2011
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Back in the day the smaller, in and out midfielders were quite important to the make up of every AFL team.
Players like Tony Francis, Tony McGuinness, Platten, Tony Liberatore and co were some of the stars of the competition. They were hard to tackle, they were nippy and always seemed to be able to rest in the forward line and rove off the bigger forwards and kick goals.

In the last decade we have seen a rush towards mids that are over 190cms, spurred on by the likes of Josh Kennedy, Cripps and Bont, while talented mids in the under 180cms height are often not drafted.

Now that we have a taller average midfield compared to the older days, maybe a few smaller, zippy mids could well make a comeback? They would be harder to tackle, get in and under better, and also be able to take the role small forward as well.
We are starting to see some of the small forwards like Charlie Cameron, Kosi Pickett, Izak Rankine and Josh Rochelle getting more time in the midfield, so maybe they can demonstrate the benefits of a smaller, quicker mid in the centre.

Does anyone really think that if John Platten, or Tony McGuinness were playing in 2023 they wouldn't be as good as they were back then?
 
Cleric said:
Back in the day the smaller, in and out midfielders were quite important to the make up of every AFL team.
Players like Tony Francis, Tony McGuinness, Platten, Tony Liberatore and co were some of the stars of the competition. They were hard to tackle, they were nippy and always seemed to be able to rest in the forward line and rove off the bigger forwards and kick goals.

In the last decade we have seen a rush towards mids that are over 190cms, spurred on by the likes of Josh Kennedy, Cripps and Bont, while talented mids in the under 180cms height are often not drafted.

Now that we have a taller average midfield compared to the older days, maybe a few smaller, zippy mids could well make a comeback? They would be harder to tackle, get in and under better, and also be able to take the role small forward as well.
We are starting to see some of the small forwards like Charlie Cameron, Kosi Pickett, Izak Rankine and Josh Rochelle getting more time in the midfield, so maybe they can demonstrate the benefits of a smaller, quicker mid in the centre.

Does anyone really think that if John Platten, or Tony McGuinness were playing in 2023 they wouldn't be as good as they were back then?
Click to expand...

great call

some of the greats like dougie hawkins, brent harvey and paul kelly were similar size to those you highlighted

all greats of the game and hopefully similar players aren't denied opportunities going forward
 
Cleric said:
Back in the day the smaller, in and out midfielders were quite important to the make up of every AFL team.
Players like Tony Francis, Tony McGuinness, Platten, Tony Liberatore and co were some of the stars of the competition. They were hard to tackle, they were nippy and always seemed to be able to rest in the forward line and rove off the bigger forwards and kick goals.

In the last decade we have seen a rush towards mids that are over 190cms, spurred on by the likes of Josh Kennedy, Cripps and Bont, while talented mids in the under 180cms height are often not drafted.

Now that we have a taller average midfield compared to the older days, maybe a few smaller, zippy mids could well make a comeback? They would be harder to tackle, get in and under better, and also be able to take the role small forward as well.
We are starting to see some of the small forwards like Charlie Cameron, Kosi Pickett, Izak Rankine and Josh Rochelle getting more time in the midfield, so maybe they can demonstrate the benefits of a smaller, quicker mid in the centre.

Does anyone really think that if John Platten, or Tony McGuinness were playing in 2023 they wouldn't be as good as they were back then?
Click to expand...
Generally speaking athletes are getting bigger, stronger, faster, and more athletic. I see this trend continuing, rather than going back to previous era heights and weights.

If rucks start pushing the 210cms more often, KPP start pushing 200cm, mids start pushing 190cm+, etc.

If you're running around at 175cm in the midfield, not to say you can't be effective, but when you're giving away 15cm and 15kg to an opponent, you are grossly undersized.

A gun player will always be a gun player, but I think the trend is going upwards rather than the opposite.
 

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I think it's a great point and I do think it's something that will come back in to the game somewhat. If you look at some of the better midfield performers so far this season, several are around that 180-or less cm mark:

Neale
Laird
Serong
Butters
Merrett
Warner
J. Daicos

Then there's a few other younger guys looking like serious midfielders despite their size in Gulden (175cm), Rowell (178), and Moore (176). It will interesting to see how this year's draft's likely top 10 pick Nick Watson (170) goes in the AFL. An incredibly effective small forward who has so far been just as effective, if not more so, when played as a mid.
 
AFL will always have exceptions, some small players that can dominate in the midfield e.g., Neale.

But with the way the game is going bigger & stronger players will always have an advantage.

Smaller mid types that can play other positions are more likely to be picked up.
 
Rotayjay said:
Footy is a tall man's game - in fact almost every sport is a tall man's game - and these days 190 cm plus blokes are a dime a dozen. People are getting taller.
Click to expand...

Tennis rugby golf cricket and Soccer are all major sports which are largely dominated by normal sized men.
 
The game is more congested so it is harder to break away from stoppages purely with speed. Now you also need power.
So if you aren’t that good, it helps to be tall and strong. If Buddy was drafter today, his club would be trying to make him a mid. And he he were a 15 year old kid today, he would be striving to be a mid. That makes it hard for the little fellas.
 
This constant narrative of “ big bodied mid” or “ inside “Bull” crap is ridiculous.

Mids need super quick hands on both sides, genuine pace and endurance and have supreme kicking skills.

If you go back to our last heyday in 2000 with the greatest premiership side of all time we had a highly skilled small to medium size midfield with Mercuri, Misiti, Caracalla, Heffernan, Jason Johnson, Blumfield with Hird the tallest and biggest body.

Would they dominate nowadays against modern midfields today?

Most definitely they would.

Comes down to how well the mid group at any club works together and how hood their ruckman is.
 
Rotayjay said:
Footy is a tall man's game - in fact almost every sport is a tall man's game - and these days 190 cm plus blokes are a dime a dozen. People are getting taller.
Click to expand...

Bingo.... In the 1990s, hell even in the early 2000s, there were some short blokes at 175 cm or shorter as inside mids. Tony Libertore was one of them.

One of my favourite dockers players was Hayden ballantyne and he was only 171 cm. He played in the forward pocket.

Blokes that are 180cm or shorter can still play AFL. But they have to have pace and skills. Also they are limited to certain areas of the ground such as on a wing or forward flanks or forward pockets.

Izzak Rankine is 181 cm. He can play on a wing and forward flank.
 

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Cleric said:
Back in the day the smaller, in and out midfielders were quite important to the make up of every AFL team.
Players like Tony Francis, Tony McGuinness, Platten, Tony Liberatore and co were some of the stars of the competition. They were hard to tackle, they were nippy and always seemed to be able to rest in the forward line and rove off the bigger forwards and kick goals.

In the last decade we have seen a rush towards mids that are over 190cms, spurred on by the likes of Josh Kennedy, Cripps and Bont, while talented mids in the under 180cms height are often not drafted.

Now that we have a taller average midfield compared to the older days, maybe a few smaller, zippy mids could well make a comeback? They would be harder to tackle, get in and under better, and also be able to take the role small forward as well.
We are starting to see some of the small forwards like Charlie Cameron, Kosi Pickett, Izak Rankine and Josh Rochelle getting more time in the midfield, so maybe they can demonstrate the benefits of a smaller, quicker mid in the centre.

Does anyone really think that if John Platten, or Tony McGuinness were playing in 2023 they wouldn't be as good as they were back then?
Click to expand...
Wierd OP to mention Rankine and Rachelle and leave out Neale and Butters.

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
The one advantage shorter mids have is a lower centre of gravity, hence better balance. This is an asset in a contested contact sport. The great shorter players have all had great balance and were hard to knock off their feet- Baldock, Skilton, Stewart, GAJ, Diesel, Lethal, Mitchell, Dale Weightman etc. To me, this will always keep little guys as valuable midfielders.
 
If you have genuine talent, you can make it in the AFL regardless of your height, just ask Caleb Daniel.
 
Shane Heard said:
This constant narrative of “ big bodied mid” or “ inside “Bull” crap is ridiculous.

Mids need super quick hands on both sides, genuine pace and endurance and have supreme kicking skills.

If you go back to our last heyday in 2000 with the greatest premiership side of all time we had a highly skilled small to medium size midfield with Mercuri, Misiti, Caracalla, Heffernan, Jason Johnson, Blumfield with Hird the tallest and biggest body.

Would they dominate nowadays against modern midfields today?

Most definitely they would.

Comes down to how well the mid group at any club works together and how hood their ruckman is.
Click to expand...
James Hird and a VFL midfield. Oh yeah, they'd dominate out at the Hangar.
 
Wardlaw is 182cm and he scopes to be one of the more physically imposing mids of the next decade with his elite speed, power, strength and how hard he hits the man and contest.

Rowell doesn't have Wardlaw's physical profile, but hits as hard, is ridiculously strong through his core and is as manic in the contest at 178cm.

It's not all height.

It's a combination of many factors.


One could argue, with the right strength/power smaller mids with their balance and lower center of gravity are actually a much harder proposition than even the elite taller midfielders. As with the rate exception, they are generally faster and more agile than the taller mids.
 
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I often wonder if some of the champions of past eras who were terrific footballers but maybe not athletes would have been drafted these days

Does an 18 yr old Darren Jarman get drafted today? Does the Tony Lockett of the 80s get drafted?
 
Shorter players could and should continue to feature in modern midfields, providing they are good enough.

There are plenty still around and to be honest, always have been.

As a society we are getting taller so average heights in all positions continues to rise (and you'll get the occassional freak size mids like Cripps and Bont) but shorter players still feature in most teams midfields and still have plenty to offer.
 
radiojake said:
I often wonder if some of the champions of past eras who were terrific footballers but maybe not athletes would have been drafted these days

Does an 18 yr old Darren Jarman get drafted today? Does the Tony Lockett of the 80s get drafted?
Click to expand...

Sheezel is pretty much an 18 year old Darren Jarman. I often think he's the player he most reminds me of.

He's not particularly quick, in fact you might consider him slow in his 20m testing times (it was certainly a criticism of him leading into last years draft, questioning whether he could get separation off AFL defenders) he's just got an elite tank along with off the page footy IQ and skills.

No part of his game relies at all on athleticism.


Jarman was kind of similar. Both of them would kill it in any position on the ground if they were required to.


Most of those guys would have been far fitter and physically prepared had they come through the current u/18 system.

A young Tony Lockett was a physical juggernaut, he'd absolutely go at the pointy end of any draft in any era.
 
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On a related note - I've noticed for some time the amount of people that bemoan the 'unfair advantages' that taller players get.

People always talk about the number of guys who are tall and perhaps less skilled that stay on lists forever, etc.

Many people seem to believe that if they were just taller, they would have had a much better career/been playing AFL/etc.

Whilst there are obvious advantages to being tall to play Aussie Rules, people seem to miss all the disadvantages that being tall or tall very tall has.

It is no coincidence that midfielders can typically be impactful straight away while key position players take longer and rucks often until their mid 20's.

It is also no conincidence that gun rucks are very rare but gun mids are everywhere. Nor is it a coincidence that most rucks are slower and less skillful than their shorter counterparts. There is a reason the old adage of "never handball to a ruckman" typically rings true. Do people think it is because they train less? or don't do skill work?

The fact of the matter is that growing tall typically comes with a number of compromises. Your muscles are much longer and typically much "slower twitch". This makes you slower, less agile, less explosive and not able to jump as high. Obviously ground ball work is much harder with a much higher centre of gravity. Coordination is also more difficult with longer limbs and skill excecution is compromised as the ball takes longer to go from hand to foot (slowing your disposal) and more can go wrong with the added time and distance.

Before you next wish you were taller or look at an AFL journeyman who has survived on a list longer than the shorter guys, remember that being that tall almost always means that every other part of their game (or your game of you were taller) has been compromised (excluding the very, very rare freak athlete).
 
Shane Heard said:
This constant narrative of “ big bodied mid” or “ inside “Bull” crap is ridiculous.
Click to expand...
I do find the narrative funny when the last two dynasties Hawks and Richmond won with mostly average sized midfields compared to the rest of the comp.

I remember the talk of Freo’s and Sydney’s mids would be too big for Hawthorn before the 2013/14 grand finals and look how that turned out.
 
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