News Willie Rioli: tampered with drug testing sample; tests positive for cannabis

[zeggie]

Willie must have had freedom to tamper with his sample that the other guys say they didn't have. Pretty clear I thought.

The tester's job is not to prevent tampering.

 

[Max zero]

Here's the fun bit. Where has ASADA or AFL confirmed this?

No where yet although several reporters have discussed it.

Of course if it does come out that there was a second sample where does that leave ASADA policy?

 

[blue harvest]

Jordan Lewis explained the process. He did it just two months ago.

Its impossible for Rioli to do what is said he did, he said. T shirt lifted up, pants and undies dropped to your knees. A guy/girl (from ASADA) stands in front of you while you provide the specimen, after you do it, they check for colour, temp and one or two other things at the time, before sealing it away.

The Eagles lawyers are going to have a field day and tear ASADA a new one.

Maybe impossible without getting caught, which apparently he was.

But in the end we don't know what happened. It will be in the official report.

 

[Corkintheocean]

A Club can give all the education that is required, but that still does not stop the occasional player being stupid unfortunately.

This is always going to be true but I doubt the players are explicitly told; "IF you have taken social drugs THEN just test positive. Don't try and shirk the test."

They would likely work off a zero tolerance basis imo.

(Apologies for the Damo posting format)

 

[Tim Evans Beard]

My understanding is that the first sample forms part of the alleged breech and thus becomes evidence. An experienced tester wouldn't raise flags there and then, that's not their job. The would take the sample with them as evidence and report their observations.

True - it does depend on the sequence of events. Two samples (commonly referred to as ‘a’ and ‘b’) samples are taken for blood samples. A single urine sample is generally only taken. Commonly only a urine sample is taken as it is cheaper and quicker, although not as sensitive as blood testing. Multiple urine samples are problematic to procure as the sample should be the ‘middle’ stream (piss in toilet, hold, piss in cup, hold, finish in toilet - middle collection) Follow-up blood tests often occur as targeted testing after a flagged tribe sample.

An ASADA agent has an obligation to request the athlete complies to standards if the athlete is observed to be in breech. The breech is still recorded and the second, complying action is recorded (including requests for compliance by the agents).

This is really messy - even for a preliminary, initial release.

 

[Ok Boomer]

If this happened at the time, the bombshell would have been released weeks ago IMO.

Eagles also would have prepared for it as they would have known about it as well.

Not necessarily, maybe they need the tainted sample to confirm the eye witness account?

 

[zeggie]

No where yet although several reporters have discussed it.

Of course if it does come out that there was a second sample where does that leave ASADA policy?

Read section 2.2

Where does that leave Rioli?

 

[KM00]

generally - if you are trying to pull one over the testers, you arent going to look them in the eye and do it in front of them. It involves some subterfuge.

My speculation is - at home, after training whatever ... he panicked as he knew he had something, so feigned some trouble producing a sample and requested a drink or two. Kept some in his mouth, and turned/distracted/some other method of subterfuge got his drink into his urine. Remember that sometimes producing a sample can take a long time ... especially if he says he has some difficult being watched.

The tampering is 100% his responsibility and not the fault of the tester who cant physically restrain him.


The notion of a 2nd (unaltered) test - I am not sure where this story is coming from???? Is that real or substantiated or just something Robbo has made up? If he knew there was a problem with the test, surely he would have said something to somebody and not been so completely surprised by this?

if he travelled with the team, it seems to me that he wasnt expecting this ... and therefore wasnt observed, or at least thought that he wasnt observed tampering with his sample. Its only when the results have come out that everyone has found out that he is a complete moron.

 

[Max zero]

True - it does depend on the sequence of events. Two samples (commonly referred to as ‘a’ and ‘b’) samples are taken for blood samples. A single urine sample is generally only taken. Commonly only a urine sample is taken as it is cheaper and quicker, although not as sensitive as blood testing. Multiple urine samples are problematic to procure as the sample should be the ‘middle’ stream (piss in toilet, hold, piss in cup, hold, finish in toilet - middle collection) Follow-up blood tests often occur as targeted testing after a flagged tribe sample.

An ASADA agent has an obligation to request the athlete complies to standards if the athlete is observed to be in breech. The breech is still recorded and the second, complying action is recorded (including requests for compliance by the agents).

This is really messy - even for a preliminary, initial release.

So as far as the bolded part is that standard procedure?

 

[Ok Boomer]

The now/why did they get a second unaltered sample?

I don't think this second sample has been confirmed to exist.

 

[Alesana]

The tester's job is not to prevent tampering.

Do the tester's have to witness the urine leaving the body and entering the receptacle?

 

[Visions]

Really struggling to see how Rioli thought he was going to get away with it.

Basically you have someone watching you at all times from when you are notified of being selected to do the test.

The process is as follows:

Notification. Athlete then has to provide sample as soon as possible. Can be delayed temporarily for valid reasons that are approved but will be followed by chaperone. When ready to provide sample, will do it with someone watching them pee into a cup. Athlete then chooses a random sample kit from a selection, takes the two containers A and B out of the kit. Athlete then pours majority of sample into container A and remaining amount into sample B, screws the lids closed on both containers, puts the containers into the box and tapes the box up themselves, all in view of the doping control officer who does not touch the samples at any stage.

I seriously don’t know what went through his mind? Especially with not one but two officers watching him.

 

[Scotland]

Some interesting takes on the responsibilities of drug testers ITT.

 

[zeggie]

Do the tester's have to witness the urine leaving the body and entering the receptacle?

I've linked the guidelines and the legislation. You tell me.

 

[The wily weagle]

Definite narrative possibility.

However I would think Simpson would be the kind of coach to stand him down, just leave him out of the team with a niggling complaint etc.

Nah no way

If there is one thing Simpson has always done, it's back players in

If the coach had any prior awareness of this incidemt, its far more likely he's told Willie just keep playing footy until any sanctions come down

Or worse, Rioli knew the potential blowback from a dodgy test was coming. And though he had no legal obligation to, he failed to inform the club. This may legitimately be the first they have heard of the situation. And if that turns out to be true, Willie has a bit to answer for

 

[Hawk_francais]

If the allegation from Asada was unfounded and completely rejected by Rioli, WCE would certainly be appealing the suspension before trial. The only real question is: if he was caught tampering with a drug sample in August, how on earth could he have been allowed to play the ensuing matches?

 

[Max zero]

I don't think this second sample has been confirmed to exist.

Both he and the Herald Sun think it does.

So why did the testers get a second sample?

 

[Scotland]

This is always going to be true but I doubt the players are explicitly told; "IF you have taken social drugs THEN just test positive. Don't try and shirk the test."

They would likely work off a zero tolerance basis imo.

(Apologies for the Damo posting format)

I posted earlier which numbnuts Carlton guy was all over but I'm pretty sure ASADA help educate players on this stuff. Clubs would do their best but they aren't experts in it. Players left to their own devices would have no idea.

 

[zeggie]

I won't directly quote they poster because they are obviously upset, but there's no "interesting" takes on the responsibilities of drug testers.

The onus is always on the athletes to do the right thing. The legislation and code says so.

They receive education and sit through a boring presentation every single year about it.

Blaming a/the tester is a cop out.

Players left to their own devices with half a brain surely don't think allegedly putting some energy drink in their urine sample is acceptable, normal and/or above board.

 

[kaiserchief13]

The athlete has control of the receptacle at all times.

Who's the cause of the mistake?

Will a tester watching "closely" cause that mistake to not occur? What powers does a tester possess to stop an athlete "wandering"?

Yeah maybe he made a mistake and spilt something in there without knowing. Yes it's his fault but obviously a mistake and if a player gets a long ban for that it's rubbish

 

[GROTTO]

Athlete responsibilities

During the sample collection athletes have the responsibility to:

• remain within direct observation of the DCO or Chaperone at all times from the point of notification until the completion of the sample collection procedure
• produce appropriate identification
• comply with the directions of the DCO and Chaperone during the sample collection session
• report immediately for a test, unless there is a valid reason for a delay.

 

[Tim Evans Beard]

So as far as the bolded part is that standard procedure?

Requesting compliance is within the WADA guidelines for developing sample collection procedures. Sample collection procedures that do not include compliance requests (written and verbal) may not comply with the WADA guidelines and may be considered to not offer the athlete procedural fairness.

You seem pretty interested in this and I hope this helps!

 

[Ok Boomer]

If the allegation from Asada was unfounded and completely rejected by Rioli, WCE would certainly be appealing the suspension before trial. The only real question is: if he was caught tampering with a drug sample in August, how on earth could he have been allowed to play the ensuing matches?

Simply, the tampering was only fully validated in ASADA's eyes on Wednesday. How could he have been banned any earlier?

 

[zeggie]

Both he and the Herald Sun think it does.

So why did the testers get a second sample?

Maybe you should read the links I've provided several times

ASADA Regs

Reg 3.14 (3) Nothing in the NAD scheme prevents the CEO from asking an athlete to give, on the same day, 1 or more urine samples and 1 or more blood samples.

(Testers act as authorised officers of the CEO before you ask)

 

[Powerade 08]

The ASADA officials are responsible for handling the penis and directing the stream into the cup, not sure how tampering has occurred in this instance.