Expansion WS: SCG home & blockbusters @ Homebush

[genghiskhan]

The showgrounds are 8 years old. Built for the olympics.

That's not what I was getting at. These old churches, breweries, gasworks and factories in Melbourne that are converted to nightclubs or apartments etc are interesting because their function has changed, not because they are old. There is something intriguing about seeing the change of function represented in the design.

Having a section of the ground shaped like a baseball stadium would be interesting. Likewise, keeping a grassed terrace when another stand goes up would be interesting as well. I haven't actually seen it, but those pictures definitely make it seem more interesting that Homebush which does have a sterile feel.

 

[Mickdog]

The SCG is not a realistic option for the West Sydney club.
It appears the AFL has its eye on another stadium at the Homebush precinct
This was in HUN on the weekend -

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,23599920-19742,00.html

League eyes Sydney venue
Damian Barrett. Herald Sun April 26, 2008

THE AFL is considering using the showgrounds oval in the Sydney Olympic Park precinct at Homebush as the back-up venue for the western Sydney team. While the Homebush precinct's 2000 Olympics stadium, now called ANZ Stadium, will be used for the side's major fixtures, it is considered too big for matches against low-drawing teams.

Millions of dollars will need to be spent on the showgrounds oval to bring it up to AFL standard. In its current state, it is better configured for rugby league, and there is insufficient grass for Australian football matches. The AFL plans to replace a gravel track that rings the oval with grass. The rough configuration of the grassed area, should the works be completed, would be 170m x 140m. The playing surface of the MCG is 160m x 141m, Telstra Dome's is 160m x 129m.

Another problem the AFL would need to rectify is that the permanent seating capacity is 10,000. In the AFL's favour is the fact the venue already boasts light towers, an electronic scoreboard and change rooms. The showgrounds oval has been used for NRL matches.
The AFL's western Sydney team, to be introduced as the AFL's 18th licence some time after 2011, will have its training base at Blacktown, where work has begun on building a 10,000-seat stadium. ...

I used to go to the Showground to watch the Bulldogs (my NRL team)when they used to play their. Was good atmosphere but too far from the ground. Although with AFL it would be much better as the whole ground would be used.

I garuntee if it is there I will a season ticket holder as its easy to get to and has everything I need. Plus the atmosphere should be great.

 

[RUNVS]

I used to go to the Showground to watch the Bulldogs (my NRL team)when they used to play their. Was good atmosphere but too far from the ground. Although with AFL it would be much better as the whole ground would be used.

I garuntee if it is there I will a season ticket holder as its easy to get to and has everything I need. Plus the atmosphere should be great.

I havent been there in years (i dont really like the Easter Show) but i do remember the venue and i agree with you. Its a great little venue and with abit of upgrading it would be a perfect stadium for the Western Sydney team.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Is there any reason why WS cannot adopt the same ground approach as the Swans and play at SCG for most games and switch the blockbusters to Homebush???

Sydney will only be having 1 AFL game per weekend, so why not use the best stadia???

Considering the SCG is being upgraded to a modern 50,000-seat cricket/AFL ground.... why not use this venue???

Why bother? A 10,000 seat stadium in Blacktown will be more than enough capacity for a WS team for probably 7 of its 11 games in the first 5 or so years of its existence. You just have to look back at the Brisbane Bears first years up at Carrara to give you an idea of what a WS home game crowd will look like.

At the SCG you'd get swans and neutral supporters going, I'd even go for a look, but you aren't going to get a lot of the "locals" drive 40kms to watch a game.

I wonder if a Saturday arvo time slot would work for the new team rather than the traditional Sunday 1pm for TV?

 

[Maddhew]

Not sold or the showgrounds as a footy ground\

but geographically it makes a lot of sense

 

[Red Crow]

The idea of using the Showgrounds sounds great in theory, so I thought I'd jump onto Google Earth to check it out. Here is a shot to show you the configuration and proximity to ANZ Stadium.

I've tried to position the photo in a way that would suggest the goals would run left to right, which isn't exactly north-south, but more northeast-southwest. It would have very wide wings if this was the case, but I would assume they wouldn't utilise the entire space of the ground if no alterations were made.

The major stand appears to be in five sections. If they could extend it one more section around the bottom of the ground in that image, and rip one down from the top and re-configure the outer wing slightly to make it more oval shaped, that would be great. The main stand would be ideal to house television cameras, commentators and corporate boxes along the wing. Put in seating in the terraces, and that would be a great ground to start with IMO. Big matches literally across the road at ANZ Stadium.

Remember, this doesn't have to be some fancy stadium all uniform in style. Look at Skilled Stadium to see how a suburban style ground can still appeal to the masses. IMO this might be better suited to the target audience, though admittedly I don't know a whole lot about Sydney's west, just going on what others have said.

 

[Professor Knowall]

... Remember, this doesn't have to be some fancy stadium all uniform in style. Look at Skilled Stadium to see how a suburban style ground can still appeal to the masses. IMO this might be better suited to the target audience, though admittedly I don't know a whole lot about Sydney's west, just going on what others have said.

Yeah, I agree that it doesn't have to be uniform. Kardinia Park and the SCG are both very appealing grounds.

I also am no expert on Sydney's west, but I've been to 3 Collingwood games with crowds from 60 to over 70,000. Each time, I found it easy to get to and from Homebush from the CBD by train (why do Sydneysiders whinge about their public transport so much?). This could be a major factor in favour of the showgrounds stadium at Homebush over Blacktown.

Looking at the google shot, it seems the ground might need to be slightly lengthened, but otherwise is a good size for AFL games. Also, I think the 10,000 capacity at Blacktown may be largely just standing room on a grass embankment around the ground, whereas here, the showgrounds ground already has proper stands with some thousands of seats already in place.

 

[Maddhew]

looks the goods

i like the idea of the hill, it would be great on a sunny day kicking back with a beer on a rug.

 

[Mickdog]

The showgrounds (at Homebush) is a very poor ground. I went and saw a RL game there a few years ago, and it was terrible. The stands are layed out like a baseball ground, and as such are all around one of the goals as shown above. The rest is grass terraces.

Even if you put seats on the grass, the major stands are still in the wrong place, and the corperate facilities would be poor or non-existant.

Bulldogs pulled out of the deal, and would rather play to p1ss small crowds at Homebush. The same would apply to an AFL team.

You would have to do a lot of redevelopment at the showgrounds to make it worthwhile, and the location still sucks. I think purpose built one at Blacktown still pips it.

How would a blacktown stadium be easier to get to than the Showground?

 

[RUNVS]

looks the goods

i like the idea of the hill, it would be great on a sunny day kicking back with a beer on a rug.

The problem with hills is that it makes the sport look really amateurish. Its not a good look for a professional sporting league. In my opinion the AFL would need to upgrade the facility to have stands all around the ground.

 

[Mickdog]

Yeah, I agree that it doesn't have to be uniform. Kardinia Park and the SCG are both very appealing grounds.

I also am no expert on Sydney's west, but I've been to 3 Collingwood games with crowds from 60 to over 70,000. Each time, I found it easy to to get to and from Homebush from the CBD by train (why do Sydneysiders whinge about their public transport so much?). This could be a major factor in favour of the showgrounds stadium at Homebush over Blacktown.

Looking at the google shot, it seems the ground might need to be slightly lengthened, but otherwise is a good size for AFL games. Also, I think the 10,000 capacity at Blacktown may be largely just standing room on a grass embankment around the ground, whereas here, the showgrounds ground already has proper stands with some thousands of seats already in place.

LOL! They put on a lot of extra trains for the Swans ANZ stadium games. Try lining here for a while and you will see why we complain about public transport. Thankgod I don't have to put up with that anymore

 

[Maddhew]

The problem with hills is that it makes the sport look really amateurish. Its not a good look for a professional sporting league. In my opinion the AFL would need to upgrade the facility to have stands all around the ground.

Well if league is the competition, the the AFL shouldnt worry too much about ground presentation, ever seen brookvale?

The Hill looks fine, its tiered.

You are prob right though, they will build stands

 

[genghiskhan]

Yeah, I agree that it doesn't have to be uniform. Kardinia Park and the SCG are both very appealing grounds.

I also am no expert on Sydney's west, but I've been to 3 Collingwood games with crowds from 60 to over 70,000. Each time, I found it easy to to get to and from Homebush from the CBD by train (why do Sydneysiders whinge about their public transport so much?). This could be a major factor in favour of the showgrounds stadium at Homebush over Blacktown.

Looking at the google shot, it seems the ground might need to be slightly lengthened, but otherwise is a good size for AFL games. Also, I think the 10,000 capacity at Blacktown may be largely just standing room on a grass embankment around the ground, whereas here, the showgrounds ground already has proper stands with some thousands of seats already in place.

The trains are good to Homebush when a big game is on. It is the general day to day trains that are terrible.Also, it depends where you are going. Sydney has lots of hard-to-get to places. Think of it this way. Sydney has three distinct regions that could be referred to as a CBD; Parramatta, Sydney city and North Sydney. On top of that, you have Chatswood.
Melbourne really only has one CBD. This difference exists largely due to transportation difficulties in Sydney. Urban planners once planned for seperate CBD (Maybe in Box Hill, but my memory might be wrong), but the main CBD was much more accessible.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

It's a 20km drive from the Blacktown ground to Sydney Olympic Park. I doubt that the new WS team would get more than 10,000 people for 7 of their 11 home games in their first 5 years. The state govt and Blacktown council are spending millions on making the ground a 10,000 seat stadium.

Can someone please explain to me why the state govt would spend millions of dollars changing the surface and facilities at the Showground to make it the alternative home ground for the western Sydney team when they have no idea what sort of crowds they will get. Some of you are saying spend $$$$millions because they might average 12,000 or 14,000. ____ there is a $670million facility next to it which they could use if the western Sydney side actually produce crowds over 10,000. FFS get real!!

Just because the AFL say the would like it doesn't mean it will happen!!

It's like the BS involving Carrara and the Gabba and the AFL spinning that they will do a deal with Qld government to upgrade Carrara. Have the AFL and some of you who love to dream actually heard of Dr Jayant Patel- "Dr Death". The bloke that was involved in 87 fatalities???

Ask a Queenslander if he wants the government to spend $150mil to $200mil on a stadium at Carrara or on the Queensland health system and you will hear them roar, down south, that the choice will be for the health system. The same in NSW. The government has committed funding to Blacktown. They are not going to spend millions on a stadium right next to a stadium that cost $670mil to build.

 

[genghiskhan]

The problem with hills is that it makes the sport look really amateurish. Its not a good look for a professional sporting league. In my opinion the AFL would need to upgrade the facility to have stands all around the ground.

I think both Manuka and Carrara have grass hills. I disagree with you here. I think the Hills add character. If they build one more stand, and leave one grass terrace, it will have great character. You will have the baseball stands, a football stand and a grass terrace all in the one stadium. Each stand would appeal to different kinds of people and contribute to a cosmopolitan atmosphere.

 

[genghiskhan]

It's a 20km drive from the Blacktown ground to Sydney Olympic Park. I doubt that the new WS team would get more than 10,000 people for 7 of their 11 home games in their first 5 years. The state govt and Blacktown council are spending millions on making the ground a 10,000 seat stadium.

Can someone please explain to me why the state govt would spend millions of dollars changing the surface and facilities at the Showground to make it the alternative home ground for the western Sydney team when they have no idea what sort of crowds they will get. Some of you are saying spend $$$$millions because they might average 12,000 or 14,000. ____ there is a $670million facility next to it which they could use if the western Sydney side actually produce crowds over 10,000. FFS get real!!

Just because the AFL say the would like it doesn't mean it will happen!!

It's like the BS involving Carrara and the Gabba and the AFL spinning that they will do a deal with Qld government to upgrade Carrara. Have the AFL and some of you who love to dream actually heard of Dr Jayant Patel- "Dr Death". The bloke that was involved in 87 fatalities???

Ask a Queenslander if he wants the government to spend $150mil to $200mil on a stadium at Carrara or on the Queensland health system and you will hear them roar, down south, that the choice will be for the health system. The same in NSW. The government has committed funding to Blacktown. They are not going to spend millions on a stadium right next to a stadium that cost $670mil to build.

If the team would not be viable in the large stadium, it makes more economic sense to spend money in a small stadium that is viable and gain associated economic benefits of having a AFL team play in the region.

 

[walhawk]

I am not sure if the Showgrunds is long enough for AFL. It is also a wierd shape.
It is 170m long but you need bring it in 3 - 4m for the boundary line & square off the goal line.

BTW 10K at Blacktown is all seated.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

If the team would not be viable in the large stadium, it makes more economic sense to spend money in a small stadium that is viable and gain associated economic benefits of having a AFL team play in the region.

And who is going to spend $millions on the Showgrounds after the $25mil+ has been spent on Blacktown?? Are you offering to paY? The team has to be viable at Blacktown before even worrying about somewhere else. Remember Blacktown to Olympic Park is 20km away. Are you saying change their base before they even have become established?

 

[Doctor Jolly]

The single fact that the Canterbury Bulldogs RL team moved from the Showgrounds to the Olympic stadium underlines how bad the showgrounds are.

They get the sort of average crowds (10K to 20K) that you'd expect the AFL to be targetting in the first few years.

 

[jpdixon]

If the team would not be viable in the large stadium, it makes more economic sense to spend money in a small stadium that is viable and gain associated economic benefits of having a AFL team play in the region.

Several people have said elsewhere that rugby league teams are being paid to play at ANZ. Don't know the details myself, but I can't see any other reason for Souths to play there and if that is the case, then it would be economically stupid to play next door instead.

And who is going to spend $millions on the Showgrounds after the $25mil+ has been spent on Blacktown?? Are you offering to paY? The team has to be viable at Blacktown before even worrying about somewhere else. Remember Blacktown to Olympic Park is 20km away. Are you saying change their base before they even have become established?

Well the Blacktown stadium isn't being built just for the new team - in fact it was planned before the new team was. What's your point about the 20km. The new team are going to be playing their premiership games at Olympic Park already - Blacktown is only a training base.

 

[jpdixon]

I am not sure if the Showgrunds is long enough for AFL. It is also a wierd shape.
It is 170m long but you need bring it in 3 - 4m for the boundary line & square off the goal line.

What do you mean? It would be about the same size as the Telstra Dome. About as long as the MCG, much longer than the SCG and much wider than the big one next door.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Well the Blacktown stadium isn't being built just for the new team - in fact it was planned before the new team was. What's your point about the 20km. The new team are going to be playing their premiership games at Olympic Park already - Blacktown is only a training base.

Yes I know the State government plus Blacktown Council plus AFL plus NSW Cricket Association have committed monies to this stadium before the AFL's recent announcement. However, the construction of the 10,000 seats has been brought forward by the AFL's announcement of a second team.

The AFL has said that the new team will play some of their matches at Blacktown and some at Olympic Park for the bigger games.

Whats the 20kms about? Well the team is going to based at Blacktown, not Parramatta, not Homebush nor Bankstown. For the first few years it will be seen as a Blacktown team and most of their support will come from a relatively close distance to their base. For most of their life in Sydney, the Swans have received most of their support from within a 5km radius of the SCG. The same thing will happen with the WS team in the early days. IMO they will struggle to get more than 10,000 spectators for the non blockbuster games. So I ask why would you make the majority of their fans drive to the Showground so they can get 2,000 maybe 4,000 more people. And why would the NSW government spend maybe another $20mil+ upgrading the ground for those extra couple of thousand spectators?

 

[genghiskhan]

The single fact that the Canterbury Bulldogs RL team moved from the Showgrounds to the Olympic stadium underlines how bad the showgrounds are.

They get the sort of average crowds (10K to 20K) that you'd expect the AFL to be targetting in the first few years.

That's like saying because rugby league decided not to play on the scg, it must be terrible for Aussie rules as well. Different codes and different circumstances.

 

[walhawk]

Where does 'Western Sydney' start?

Is Homebush in WS?
Blacktown certainly is.

 

[genghiskhan]

And who is going to spend $millions on the Showgrounds after the $25mil+ has been spent on Blacktown?? Are you offering to paY? The team has to be viable at Blacktown before even worrying about somewhere else. Remember Blacktown to Olympic Park is 20km away. Are you saying change their base before they even have become established?

I really don't know what kind of stadium is planned for Blacktown. My guess is that it will be quite basic. The extra money needed to make a Blacktown stadium suitable might be better invested in the Showground stadium.

Although I think a strong association with Blacktown is good for the image of the team, and training in the Blacktown area can help build this image, the target for the team is more than just people who live in Blacktown. They would also include people who have lived in Blacktown, work in Blacktown, have a relative in Blacktown or just like the image of Blacktown. Playing in an area that is accessible for such people would have some logical benefit.