Vic 2017 Northcote By-Election - GREENS GAIN

[swingdog]

Only out of resentment towards people who earn higher incomes than themselves. Once they make it, they won't. Generally these people are between 100k and the very top bracket.

Given they are one of the driving forces opposing inner city development (of almost all kinds - road, rail, housing) while favouring the most liberal of immigration laws, I can't view them as anything less than cynically self-interested.

So, I've voted Greens a few times and actively support these things around here.

 

[Pessimistic]

I think half my mates vote Green.

I have some classic examples - the 'owner' of a cafe in Collingwood whose parent is a prominent state Liberal. Money supplied by mother and father to run the cafe, daughter is a dilettante who posts on Instagram about Manus among other progressive tropes.

Or, the bloke who went to Geelong Grammar, whose father went to Geelong Grammar, and father before him, whose parents own multi million dollar properties in the Byron Bay hinterlands and around Sydney. Who whinges about how his parents are Liberal voters, says he 'believes' in public education, but will send his son to ... you guessed it, Geelong Grammar.

You can say they're 'ignorant generalisations', but the data validates my assertions. You typically find Greens voters in wealthier, but younger, suburbs. The ALP survey backs this up. As more data is gathered about this phenomenon the more this assertion will prove true: Greens are the party for resentful children of the rich.

The last point. in the old days they made those people missionaries or something out of the way. FWIW I find both the hanson sisters annoying and removed from reality

 

[smokingjacket]

Only out of resentment towards people who earn higher incomes than themselves. Once they make it, they won't. Generally these people are between 100k and the very top bracket.

Given they are one of the driving forces opposing inner city development (of almost all kinds - road, rail, housing) while favouring the most liberal of immigration laws, I can't view them as anything less than cynically self-interested.

That doesn't make sense. You might find some people who fit the description, but hundreds of thousands of people around Australia aren't voting against their economic interest out of spite. Much more likely, these are the most educated people in Australia and they're imbued with ideas and values at university of how they think the country should be run.

In any case, how do you "make it" as a professional? The pay scale starts at higher level than most but there's rarely major leaps, unless they own their business or are drafted into the business world as a director. And even if they did start voting LNP, is that wildly different to "Howard's Tradies" that made so much money in the boom that they moved in to top tax bracket and suddenly got very serious about tax reform, and now suddenly don't?

They are a class, very similar to the one the Democrats targeted in the US. It's a long term positive that Labor is more focused on retaining the working class, rather than trying to triangulate some weird message with upper-middle class professionals who are migrating to the inner cities, who unsurprisingly, have different values to someone who grew up in state housing.

 

[King Brown]

So, I've voted Greens a few times and actively support these things around here.

Let me guess. “Sensible” development that fits in with “community character”.

 

[Pessimistic]

I'm rusted on labor but if you wanted me to make a single point about the conservatives is that in the main they are lazy politicians who live for the wedge.

I know they all wedge but its points 1 to 5 in the conservative playbook

 

[Pessimistic]

Let me guess. “Sensible” development that fits in with “community character”.

Yeah 'heritage' which was jerrybuilt by greedy victorians (the era) practically yesterday in historical terms.

If they were serious about the environment they'd bulldoze it en masse without sentiment (like victorians when they found 'heritage" in their way) and build environmentally friendly cities with modern methods

Now wheres that picture of ted the toff an lilian frank going all 'save the trees' in st kilda rd?

 

[King Brown]

I'm rusted on labor but if you wanted me to make a single point about the conservatives is that in the main they are lazy politicians who live for the wedge.

I know they all wedge but its points 1 to 5 in the conservative playbook

Im amazed any lefties talks about post industrial society as a good thing for their politics, when it is actually associated with a collapse in left wing parties, and an opportunity for populist firebrands.

 

[Pessimistic]

Im amazed any lefties talks about post industrial society as a good thing for their politics, when it is actually associated with a collapse in left wing parties, and an opportunity for populist firebrands.

The alternative stinks and eventually their voters will die off.

Or wake up to themselves, these bastards don't even support pensioners with actual policy

 

[swingdog]

Let me guess. “Sensible” development that fits in with “community character”.

No, actually but keep up with those generalisations. For what it's worth, I want good quality apartment developments replacing the old factories that are defunct around here. You know, the sort of thing they take for granted in Europe but apparently we're not good enough for in Australia.

 

[swingdog]

Yeah 'heritage' which was jerrybuilt by greedy victorians (the era) practically yesterday in historical terms.

If they were serious about the environment they'd bulldoze it en masse without sentiment (like victorians when they found 'heritage" in their way) and build environmentally friendly cities with modern methods

Now wheres that picture of ted the toff an lilian frank going all 'save the trees' in st kilda rd?

Agree.

But, wait, I've voted Green, how can that be? It doesn't fit your stereotype!

 

[nobbyiscool]

Jesus Christ.

The lessons from the US and UK the past 20-30 years are being actively ignored.

Im amazed any lefties talks about post industrial society as a good thing for their politics, when it is actually associated with a collapse in left wing parties, and an opportunity for populist firebrands.

I might be wrong - I apologise if I am - but it doesn't sound like you know what post-industrialism is about in a political, economic or even in a PR sense. It doesn't mean that you cull forestry or manufacturing and then don't replace it with anything. Forestry is the great argument for post-industrialism because we know from the limited experiences in places like Tasmania and New Zealand that you can create post-industrialism using the very resources that were being utilised by the previous industrialisation.

Given they are one of the driving forces opposing inner city development (of almost all kinds - road, rail, housing) while favouring the most liberal of immigration laws, I can't view them as anything less than cynically self-interested.

This is ridiculous. Increased/better public transport and public housing were/are 2 of the major planks of the Greens platform.

 

[Pessimistic]

Agree.

But, wait, I've voted Green, how can that be? It doesn't fit your stereotype!

Yeah and I’m alp in Kooyong and we were about 75% yes got a high yes vote for the republic too

 

[swingdog]

Yeah and I’m alp in Kooyong and we were about 75% yes got a high yes vote for the republic too

Good for you.

 

[radiojake]

well this thread has taught me that I must be the poorest Green voting guy in the country

 

[medusala]

Spot on! It is a Murdoch publication where authenticity runs a long second to prevarication.

Says the CFMEU apologist.

It's not my experience that Green voters hate unions - on the contrary, the majority of people that I associate with from around here are very pro-union, and 10 or 20 years ago they would've been ALP voters.

It varies from state to state though surely? eg in Tas Greens voters were traditionally anti union (and unions hated them back) because the unions represented lots of workers in heavy industry and forestry.

IIRC there used to be plenty of conflict between Tas greens and those from NSW.

 

[BEaston]

well this thread has taught me that I must be the poorest Green voting guy in the country

Yeah I guess my Dad just forgot to enroll me in Geelong Grammar or Wesley or whatever.

 

[HairyO]

well this thread has taught me that I must be the poorest Green voting guy in the country

Im sure there are plenty of low income Greens supporters in outer suburbs and the regions, but the suburbs with high levels of support are very much upper class suburbs.

 

[AM]

Says the CFMEU apologist.

As distinct from the apologist for the extreme right with no social conscience. Now take your trolling elsewhere.

 

[TimmeT]

As distinct from the apologist for the extreme right with no social conscience. Now take your trolling elsewhere.

You write a troll type comment and then get responded to with a troll type comment back and you then whinge about the poster being a troll .

Keep throwing those stones in your glass house buddy!

 

[AM]

You write a troll type comment and then get responded to with a troll type comment back and you then whinge about the poster being a troll .

Keep throwing those stones in your glass house buddy!

Not whinging, just voicing an opinion that is a commonly held one Timme Timme!

 

[King Brown]

I might be wrong - I apologise if I am - but it doesn't sound like you know what post-industrialism is about in a political, economic or even in a PR sense. It doesn't mean that you cull forestry or manufacturing and then don't replace it with anything.

Replace it with what? This is a motherhood statement.

Forestry is the great argument for post-industrialism because we know from the limited experiences in places like Tasmania and New Zealand that you can create post-industrialism using the very resources that were being utilised by the previous industrialisation.

This is hilarious. If you haven't noticed, Tasmania is an backwards wasteland that has struggled to keep up with mainland Australia. It's the welfare state of the country, and any person worth their salt gets the hell out of there.

Citing a state which has dozens of towns that don't have potable water as an exemplar of post-industrialisation, I reiterate: Jesus Christ.

This is ridiculous. Increased/better public transport and public housing were/are 2 of the major planks of the Greens platform.

Nebulous policy platforms.

 

[Pessimistic]

driving the latest eco friendly badged toxic battery on wheels and turning your nose up a petrol power isnt green.

pulling your head in and sharing public space including packed train carriages is

 

[nobbyiscool]

Replace it with what? This is a motherhood statement.


This is hilarious. If you haven't noticed, Tasmania is an backwards wasteland that has struggled to keep up with mainland Australia. It's the welfare state of the country, and any person worth their salt gets the hell out of there.

Citing a state which has dozens of towns that don't have potable water as an exemplar of post-industrialisation, I reiterate: Jesus Christ.


Nebulous policy platforms.

Holy *. I've been trying to have a reasoned discussion with you, and you keep throwing up bullshit that makes it clear you don't know what you're talking about.

Why bother? People like you are everything that is wrong with the internet.. You think that, because you have a keyboard and an internet connection, your opinion is a valid one that is worth voicing.

You don't mate. You clearly don't understand industrialism/post-industrialism, nor do you understand the political or economic situation in Tasmania.

 

[King Brown]

Holy ****. I've been trying to have a reasoned discussion with you, and you keep throwing up bullshit that makes it clear you don't know what you're talking about.

Why bother? People like you are everything that is wrong with the internet.. You think that, because you have a keyboard and an internet connection, your opinion is a valid one that is worth voicing.

You don't mate. You clearly don't understand industrialism/post-industrialism, nor do you understand the political or economic situation in Tasmania.

You citing the poorly educated beggar state that hasn’t got potable water in dozens of towns as an example of successful post-industrialisation is whats wrong here. What’s next, Flint Michigan as an exemplar?

If that’s your vision of a successful future for Australia, then it’s one of unremitting bleakness.

 

[swingdog]

driving the latest eco friendly badged toxic battery on wheels and turning your nose up a petrol power isnt green.

pulling your head in and sharing public space including packed train carriages is

As lots of Greens would agree. I'm not sure who you think you're attacking.