Preview Hawks vs Cats - Changes and discussion

[killerspud]

I would seriously think about going into the game NO CHANGE

Brown and Gibson coming off injuries can find some form in the VFL first - some of you guys just love the idea of bringing in players regardless of what the 22 on the field have done in the previous week/weeks - yes it is right to occasionally bring in new players to freshen things up

BUT the mark of successful teams is stability - last year we had the ins and outs merry go round going full tilt - the last seven weeks we have kept changes to a minimum and look at the results.

Maybe after the Geelong game I would look at changing Muston for Brown (particularly with the hardened Saints coming up soon), the only other changes would be Gibson for Schoenmakers (depending on how tall the forward lines we are playing are) and again for the saints Hooper for Peterson (I think the key to beating the Saints is spped and skill - Rioli and Buddy both have to play as midfielders if we are to have any chance)

but for next week

NO CHANGE

 

[Ugottabjokin]

I would seriously think about going into the game NO CHANGE

Brown and Gibson coming off injuries can find some form in the VFL first - some of you guys just love the idea of bringing in players regardless of what the 22 on the field have done in the previous week/weeks - yes it is right to occasionally bring in new players to freshen things up

BUT the mark of successful teams is stability - last year we had the ins and outs merry go round going full tilt - the last seven weeks we have kept changes to a minimum and look at the results.

Maybe after the Geelong game I would look at changing Muston for Brown (particularly with the hardened Saints coming up soon), the only other changes would be Gibson for Schoenmakers (depending on how tall the forward lines we are playing are) and again for the saints Hooper for Peterson (I think the key to beating the Saints is spped and skill - Rioli and Buddy both have to play as midfielders if we are to have any chance)

but for next week

NO CHANGE

I doubt no change Ladson missed due to a virus so should be right to go next week. Peterson came in for him. This says Ladson is preferred over Peterson. That is if Brown and Gibbo play in the McGoos otherwise see my previous post.

 

[ScoobySnacks]

In: Gibson, Brown
Out: Peterson, Schoey

Muston needs to stay to play a negating role on one of the many Geelong defenders that will rebound out of the backline. Gibbo and Brown will be better suited to the smaller forward line of Geelong than Schoey, who can be opened up at ground level sometimes. Murphy can play on a tall or a small, so he could accomodate Hawkins if he was back, or someone like Varcoe or Stokes.

Personally I feel anxious about breaking up the backline which has stated to string some really good cohseion together over the last couple of weeks, but I guess it just has to be played to the opponents of the week. If Geelong somehow play tall then I don't think the back line needs to be changed at all

 

[Fear0411]

MURPHY STAYS HE HAS EARNT HIS SPOT AND DOESNT LOOK LIKE GIVING IT UP!!!


Probally just

shoey,muston out

Brown, gibbo in

 

[Gene Simmons]

OUTS
Shoenmakers
either Murphy, peterson, or Muston

INS
Brown
Gibbo

Murphy? Shoenmakers? No way.

I know they are on the fringe but going by their performances the past b2 games they both keep their spots!

OUTS: Muston, Petersen (provided there is no injuries or suspensions)
INS: Gibson, Brown

Do we know why Ladson missed? Don't forget he'll be pushing to come back in but I can only see 1 or 2 changes max from last nites side.

GO HAWKS

 

[Yaelius]

Do we know why Ladson missed? Don't forget he'll be pushing to come back in but I can only see 1 or 2 changes max from last nites side.

Ladson had a virus.

~ Yaelius

 

[The Kipster]

In: Gibson, Brown
Out: Peterson, Schoey

Muston needs to stay to play a negating role on one of the many Geelong defenders that will rebound out of the backline. Gibbo and Brown will be better suited to the smaller forward line of Geelong than Schoey, who can be opened up at ground level sometimes. Murphy can play on a tall or a small, so he could accomodate Hawkins if he was back, or someone like Varcoe or Stokes.

Don't kid yourself, Murph has been great but is no good on tall forwards et all...

 

[Willie_Rioli]

Round 14: Hawthorn Vs Geelong, Saturday July 10th, 2:10PM AEST, MCG

HAWTHORN

B: Brent Guerra, Steven Gilham, Josh Gibson
HB: Rick Ladson, Benjamin Stratton, Grant Birchall
C: Chance Bateman, Sam Mitchell, Jordan Lewis
HF: Michael Osborne, Lance Franklin, Shaun Burgoyne
F: Cyril Rioli, Jarryd Roughead, Campbell Brown
FOLL: Brent Renouf, Luke Hodge, Brad Sewell
I/C: Wayde Skipper, Xavier Ellis, Clinton Young, Thomas Murphy
EMG: Beau Muston, Carl Peterson, Ryan Schoenmakers

IN: Josh Gibson, Campbell Brown, Rick Ladson
OUT: Beau Muston, Ryan Schoenmakers, Carl Peterson

only thing i'd change from this team is to retain Peterson and drop Murphy. this will give us the freedom to play Brown in defence rather in the forward pocket.
Murphy was great last night, so he'd be very unlucky.

 

[killerspud]

Don't kid yourself, Murph has been great but is no good on tall forwards et all...

Agreed - Murphy is not great on tall forwards - BUT he is really really good on small forwards - Eddie Betts will attest to that. He is deceptively quick and his height means that he is always going to outmark or spoil them. Reads the play well and I'd go as far to say our best option for the better small forwards in the comp (like Milne, Ballantyne or Varcoe)

We need to keep our defensive group together - ultimately I think our best six would be


Guerra Gilham Murphy

Stratton Gibson Brown

with Shoey on the bench depending on the height of the forwards we are playing

That this group has jelled together has meant that Hodge can now stay in the midfield and even drift forward which makes us a make more dangerous team than him covering for the defence (which he can still do if we are in trouble)

any talk of dropping Murphy after he has played several good games shows a lack of respect not only for the player but also a failure to understand why we have gone from losing to winning games

Of course you are entitled to your opinions (as flawed as they might be)

 

[Hawksgirl4eva]

Murphy? Shoenmakers? No way.

I know they are on the fringe but going by their performances the past b2 games they both keep their spots!

OUTS: Muston, Petersen (provided there is no injuries or suspensions)
INS: Gibson, Brown

Do we know why Ladson missed? Don't forget he'll be pushing to come back in but I can only see 1 or 2 changes max from last nites side.

GO HAWKS

like i've already said i dont believe Murphy deserves to be dropped but i believe it will be two of the four of them that will go.

it will probably be
OUTS:
Peterson
shoenmakers

INS
Brownie
Gibson/Ladson

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Am not sure the Cats really have the quarter back or 'go to' back half runner, the way others do. Every player seems to do it !! Makes Musto's place less important.

I thought the only person who was disappointing last night, was Schoey. Seemed very reactive and not clean. Mooney is out for the clash too isn't he, so likely to be one less tall to cover.

Looking at Geelong's forward line, they have some quick runners in Stokes, Varcoe and Byrnes. Brown and Laddo would be handy ins.

Out: Schoey and Muston.

In: Brown and Laddo.

 

[Yaelius]

Am not sure the Cats really have the quarter back or 'go to' back half runner, the way others do. Every player seems to do it !! Makes Musto's place less important.

I thought the only person who was disappointing last night, was Schoey. Seemed very reactive and not clean. Mooney is out for the clash too isn't he, so likely to be one less tall to cover.

Looking at Geelong's forward line, they have some quick runners in Stokes, Varcoe and Byrnes. Brown and Laddo would be handy ins.

Out: Schoey and Muston.

In: Brown and Laddo.

What about Gibson?

Don't think he'll get up or don't think we need the height?

~ Yaelius

 

[Dewnior]

In: Gibson, Brown
Out: Peterson, schoenmakers

Would not surprise me if Osborne was in the mix to get dropped just quietly. I like him alot but its a tough side to hold your spot in at the moment. Who would have thought 8 wks ago our biggest problem would be trying to squeze Brown and Gibbo in Brown may even play forward against the Cats for his forward line pressure, an area I thought we actually did lack a little in tonight.

I think Ossie is in a little bit of trouble as he seems to have lost a yard or two of pace. Coupled with the fact he's not a natural ball winner more an impact player (albeit not an overly quick one at any stage of his career) he may find it hard to demand a permanent spot in the team in the near future with the return of Brown and Hooper incoming weeks. Age seems to be catching up with him at a rapid rate imo.

Anyone who thinks Ozzie will be dropped (unless due to injury) is kidding themselves

 

[SNAITHY]

Fair dinkum, I can not understand all this raving about Murphy. I love anyone that pulls on the Brown n Gold, but for a year and a half I have seen this guy fall over, let balls go through his hands, through his legs, hand it to the opposition, and conspicuously be standing in the wrong spot at the wrong time. Yes, I am the first to agree that he has played 3 good serviceable games but honestly, the fact that everyone is raving about this should be setting off alarm bells. Should'nt it be the norm? He SHOULD be marking, hitting targets, staying on his feet, beating his opponent more regularly than not....it shouldn't be sending supporters into hysterics when he does....ffs! I have asked myself this question lately....'would I want him in the team entering a grand final?' No way. I just can't convince myself. I wonder what others think.
I also do not see what Ellis brings to the side. He just seems to do nothing.......a Dogs player pivoting on 50 and running right by him to goal last night really pissed me off. He didn;t even move. I just dont see what he offers. Midfield rotation perhaps.
Can't fathom peoples thinking on dumping Osborne. Tough, great mark (when realistic....wtf was that?????) and can find the goals.
Hope they dont bring two underdone players in, in Brown and Gibbo simultaneously.
For me, out Ellis for Ladson or Brown (more mongrel, send X a message).
Cross fingers Murph continues to improve and the Cats game is not the game he returns to his old ways. As I said not bagging him, I just find the reaction to him playing 3 or so better games on end staggering.
Go Hawks...

 

[go hawks!!!]

I donot want to start a thread on this, but want to share my thoughts.

Geelong for me have a difficult run.

They are currently on top of the ladder with 3 losses.

Next week they play us which we will win.

That is followed by

Adelaide at AAMI - Loss
Brisbane at Skilled - Win
Sydney at ANZ - Win
Collingwood at MCG - Loss
Bulldogs at Etihad - Loss
Carlton at Etihad - Loss
WC at Skilled - Win

These are guesses only, so that is another 5 losses potentially, which could mean that they will be in danger of missing the top 4 with 8 losses and would help us. We will not catch them on percentage though.

I bet we are all thinking that we will replace Freemantle but was thinking abt geelong too

 

[mrcurly]

I donot want to start a thread on this, but want to share my thoughts.

Geelong for me have a difficult run.

They are currently on top of the ladder with 3 losses.

Next week they play us which we will win.

That is followed by

Adelaide at AAMI - Loss
Brisbane at Skilled - Win
Sydney at ANZ - Win
Collingwood at MCG - Loss
Bulldogs at Etihad - Loss
Carlton at Etihad - Loss
WC at Skilled - Win

These are guesses only, so that is another 5 losses potentially, which could mean that they will be in danger of missing the top 4 with 8 losses and would help us. We will not catch them on percentage though.

I bet we are all thinking that we will replace Freemantle but was thinking abt geelong too

For a moment there i thought you must have a crystal ball GH, its tough to pick wins/losses that far in advance. If Sydney gets their best side together they could seriously challenge the Cats, particularly if they are missing their big guns. Ditto the Briz game, if the Lions can get their core group of quality players up and running - ie Brown and Fevola are playing - and Geelong lose key players then there could be an upset there. I would be surprised if the Blues give them much grief, depends on the team selections.

I do agree though that Freo is the wild card, could easily pillow at the post after looking the goods in the first half of the season. Just noticed they have lost Barlow with a broken leg..

I'm confident we will give an understrength Geelong a ruffling next week. No changes is my tip (hope?), Brown and Gibson can have a run at BoxHill. Get them some decent match time before exposing them to the seniors. We lost enough games in the early season with players breaking down in the first half, reducing our rotations, bring them back one at a time... preferably against Brisbane.

 

[hawker92]

I donot want to start a thread on this, but want to share my thoughts.

Geelong for me have a difficult run.

They are currently on top of the ladder with 3 losses.

Next week they play us which we will win.

That is followed by

Adelaide at AAMI - Loss
Brisbane at Skilled - Win
Sydney at ANZ - Win
Collingwood at MCG - Loss
Bulldogs at Etihad - Loss
Carlton at Etihad - Loss
WC at Skilled - Win

These are guesses only, so that is another 5 losses potentially, which could mean that they will be in danger of missing the top 4 with 8 losses and would help us. We will not catch them on percentage though.

I bet we are all thinking that we will replace Freemantle but was thinking abt geelong too

They can beat Adelaide, Collingwood, Bulldogs and Carlton.

 

[AudiR8dreamer]

Fair dinkum, I can not understand all this raving about Murphy. I love anyone that pulls on the Brown n Gold, but for a year and a half I have seen this guy fall over, let balls go through his hands, through his legs, hand it to the opposition, and conspicuously be standing in the wrong spot at the wrong time. Yes, I am the first to agree that he has played 3 good serviceable games but honestly, the fact that everyone is raving about this should be setting off alarm bells. Should'nt it be the norm? He SHOULD be marking, hitting targets, staying on his feet, beating his opponent more regularly than not....it shouldn't be sending supporters into hysterics when he does....ffs! I have asked myself this question lately....'would I want him in the team entering a grand final?' No way. I just can't convince myself. I wonder what others think.
I also do not see what Ellis brings to the side. He just seems to do nothing.......a Dogs player pivoting on 50 and running right by him to goal last night really pissed me off. He didn;t even move. I just dont see what he offers. Midfield rotation perhaps.
Can't fathom peoples thinking on dumping Osborne. Tough, great mark (when realistic....wtf was that?????) and can find the goals.
Hope they dont bring two underdone players in, in Brown and Gibbo simultaneously.
For me, out Ellis for Ladson or Brown (more mongrel, send X a message).
Cross fingers Murph continues to improve and the Cats game is not the game he returns to his old ways. As I said not bagging him, I just find the reaction to him playing 3 or so better games on end staggering.
Go Hawks...

I agree with your thoughts on Murphy. I do agree with others that he has played very well recently and based on form would keep his spot for the Cats game. But he would not be in our best 22 for finals footy if we had a full list to pick from. Friday's game was the first I didn't get nervous each time he went near the ball. I hope he keeps playing the way he has.

As for Ellis, he is the weakest link in our team. Does very little to impact the contest - dinky kicks, and handballs to a player under pressure too often. I'd dump him for Brown and probably make that the only change for the Cats. I'd give Gibson another weeks in the VFL to condition himself, then come in the following week.

Ladson doesn't deserve to push his way back in yet (in fact, not sure he's in our best 22 either). We have to keep developing Peterson, Shoey and Muston, and games like last night are invaluable for their confidence and learning. Peterson is showing great promise and will command a good defender sooner than later, which adds that additional dimension to our forward line.

In: Brown
Out: Ellis

 

[hawksfan71]

Dont think they will risk putting Gibbo in (not a fan of his, games Ive seen him play he was ordinary), definitely Brownie (who was listed as coming in Friday!) in for maybe Petersen, great grab, innacurate kicking in Friday, definitely future super star though.

Lets Hawks fans PREY that no one gets rubbed out, I read someone say about buddy getting a week for attempting to hit Lake, anythings possible when the umpires and Buddy is concerned. Sent a shiver up my spine, I dont think I could watch the game if buddy wasnt there against the cats.

 

[Mervyn Beasley]

Ladson was an interesting out on Fri.
Many on here guessed/predicted/knew he would be left out.
Listed as 'virus' on HFC which I thought was interesting.
Doubt he will come straight back in.

Whatever the case if our good run with injuries continues it will be very interesting come seasons end.

 

[mrcurly]

I agree with the comments on Ellis, very lucky to have held his position in the side earlier in the season - probably more due to lack of personnel challenging for his spot (how times are changing). He certainly looks far better at the moment, perhaps his confidence builds when the rest of the team are playing well.

The fact that the selection committee persevered with him when his form was very ordinary indicates to me that they are unlikely to drop him now.

Carl Peterson could easily have been the game winner last night, three straight set shots and a couple of goal assists may have put him in the best players. I like the x factor he brings to the forward zone, great leap and eventually his kicking will become more accurate. Shoey also did some great defensive work. Whoever (if anyone) gets dropped for the Geelong game can count themselve as very unlucky.

On another note - The current team are performing like a really tight unit, even the defence - almost better (in some areas) than the sum of their parts. I would not mess with the chemistry they have created out there by making too many changes, this has the makings of a very solid top four side - even a contender if we can continue on this roll.

I cannot recall a Hawthorn side winning so many consecutive tight games, we have been challenged in 6 out of the last 7 games and have toughed it out with a belief i thought may have left them, there were a few pure willpower wins in there, heartstoppers that have often gone against us over the years. Go hawks!

 

[reubski23]

There is no way Murphy will be dropped that is from Jason Dunstall who seats on the match committee every week.

He also said Brown is a definite in, but he said may not neccesarily be for a defender. So that has me thinking Pieterson or Muston will go out for him.
I don't think Schoey showed enough to be in the team next week so I think Ladson Or Gibson will take his place. I'm leaning towards Gibson just because we have Brisbane and St Kilda the weeks after and I think he is vital in our back half for those games.

The chief also said that Gibson is not an automatic selection. Which is slightly weird for me seeing how hard we went at drafting him

Anyway going forward our best 22 was Fridays team minus Muston, Pieterson and schoey for Brown, Gibson and Hooper

 

[Roby]

Muston, must play. The quarter-back has become an essential role in the AFL today. The ability to set up from attack is as important as anything else. Muston has done jobs on Johncock, Fletcher and Gilbee in the last 3 weeks curbing their influence. Not only that but he has popped up with some valuable goals. His also versatile and can play in defence if need be, and this is important.

To those who don't think that Geelong don't have attacking full-backs, they do have a few. Most notably is Enright. Curb his influence and Geelong will struggle to generate attacks.

I would of said drop Ellis last week. But his proving too stand up in these big games. His vital due to his ability to play many positions but also his ability to tag, and did a important job on Griffen in the last quarter.

I hate to say this but Schoenmakers would have to go out for if Gibson is ready. I have criticised Schoenamkers in the past but his last weeks have been pretty good. Still Gibson is a much surer defender, who is just agile and uses the ball better. Gibson in for Schoey.

Is Brown ready? I think is 80% chance of playing this week. If we were to come in, it's hard to pick. I can only think of Peterson but I find it hard to take him out.

Peterson has shown he can play as pinch hitting half-forward, who can deliver with good kicking inside 50. His high marking is not just for show but allows a 3rd tall option when need be. If a ruckman goes down, probably better to have in the side then have to put Hodge there. If he had of kicked straight last week for goal he would be a certainty. He is probably in the best 6 or so players for kicking at the club, so I believe his goalkicking misses are just due to pressure.

This could mean we may need to revise Ellis position. I wonder if players like Rioli, Lewis or Birchall can be given a run with tagging role and how they would do. Could be worth exploring.

Ultimately it's good to see we have selection headaches, as it allows players to comeback full recovered from injuries. We don't have to worry about rushing players back which can only be good for the long term. It also means players need to fight for their spots, bringing out the best in the 22 selected hopefully. We should be able to overcome new injuries and suspensions from now on.

Possible match-ups this week.
Sewell on Selwood,
Bateman on Chapman.
Ellis on Ablett.
Ling will probably go to Hodge. Bartel to Mitchell. I can see Kelly probably going to Rioli.

I'd put Rioli on Enright.
Muston on Hunt.
If Roughhead gets Mackie I would push him closer to FF. If Taylor comes back from injury and gets Roughie, I would push him to HF. Get Mackie at FB. Scarlett should get Franklin this time around. Push Buddy up midfield as per usual then.

I'll guess Gliham will get first crack at JPod but I prefer too put Stratton on him. JPod is their only notable goalscorer without Johnson and Mooney. Stop him it's like killing their 'queen' in chess.

They have few dangerous small forwards, Varcoe, Byrnes Stokes. Varcoe is the most dangerous and Murphy should go straight to him. The other two may be taken by Brown if he is back in and Guerra.

Geelong last week did not manage to score a goal in the second half because they were not allowed their run out of defence by the huge pressure applied by St Kilda in the forward half. They out tackled Geelong by a fair margin and that is why Rioli and Muston will be important to stop players like Enright and Hunt. If we do this effectively the rest should take of itself.

 

[Motown]

'would I want him in the team entering a grand final?' No way. I just can't convince myself. I wonder what others think.

I think you've already made up your mind.

Recognizing Murphy is anything better than a try-hard hack would require you admitting to yourself you're wrong and may not be as erudite in your assessments as you thought. Don't sweat the opinions of others or the match committee; you're free to see whatever you think you see and certainly don't let the enthusiasm of others cause you to doubt yourself.

He'll have a bad game sooner or later, maybe make a crucial error or two. You can then pile on with the rest and claim you were right all along.

 

[Motown]

Muston, must play. The quarter-back has become an essential role in the AFL today. The ability to set up from attack is as important as anything else. Muston has done jobs on Johncock, Fletcher and Gilbee in the last 3 weeks curbing their influence. Not only that but he has popped up with some valuable goals. His also versatile and can play in defence if need be, and this is important.

Brown can do all that too and, fitness willing, better IMO. I agree that the role is important, but Muston doesn't have a monopoly on it.