Geelong 2008 vs St Kilda 2009 vs Collingwood 2011

[romeohwho]

In terms of skill and talent that Round 14 match has to be one of, if not the best ever played. Two undefeated and dominant teams at their absolute peak going hammer and tongs at each other in perfect conditions to play out a thriller

The only way it would've been more epic (besides it being a final) would've been if Gardiner didn't take that mark and it ended up a draw

Never been to a home and away like it. The noise from the first bounce was extraordinary, just a relentless, compelling, full on game. It was brilliant.

 

[Gone Critical]

Off topic a little, but the '73 Pies side that finished 19-3, and was the second side behind the 19-3 Hawks of '71 to win 19 H & A in a season, was the straight-sets exit rather a shock? Or was it the tail end of the long Pies era that may have incorporated the '64-'66 sides as well? Certainly the Pies of '70 controlled Carlton in 3 1/2 of their 4 games, that Pies '73 side isn't remembered much for their great H & A season that year.

Not really. Pies of that era were June premiers. Unlike later teams around 79-81 who were blue collar and got the best out of themselves Collingwood of the early 70s had plenty of stars, McKenna, Thompson, Tuddy, Richardson bros, Price, Greening, Wearmouth etc with ray Shaw, Moore and Kink coming in at the end of that era.

Era really encompassed 69-75 where we played finals every year for a total of 12 matches and only 2 wins. 3 times in those 6 years we had straight set exits 69, 72 and 73 so by 73 it wasnt a shock. There was some crossover from the 60-66 era and if you add 60-75 together there were 22 finals matches with only 5 wins and 4 lost GFs. Throw in 77-81 and there are another 5 GFs with 4 losses and a draw.

Was a lotta heartbreak being a Pie supporter which is why 90 especially and 2010 were so great. Still have to add losses in 02, 03 and 2011 for the extra suffering

I have really depressed myself here.

 

[Gone Critical]

They sure did win a lot of games
Wins H&A 2007-2011
07 18
08 21
09 18
10 17
11 19

The era is well tarnished by 2008, IMO it should've been a minimum of four flags, they got 3 ( a great effort) but with that team "under performed".

Cmon if you want to add 08 you should delete 09. 3 was the right number and a massive effort.

 

[Royal Flash]

Saints 2009 had everything go against them on the big day.

Including your coach. Luke Ball was made for those conditions and was playing a terrific game yet Ross sat him on the pine for the entire last quarter when it was time to lay your body on the line (which Luke did better than anyone).

Poor coaching from Lyon imo.

 

[The King!]

Sydney 2014 better than them all


Nah geelong 08

 

[The King!]

Collingwood 2011 - aside from being a supporter, this season deserves more credit than it's due. We battered every single team in the league except Geelong and Sydney (and Carlton to an extent - 28 and 19 points respectively), basically. our late season slump that included a couple of poor wins and bad finals performances probably lets us down.

Or succession planning buggered you up

 

[Royal Flash]

I have Saints = Cats with Pies clearly behind the other 2.

For mine the Cats 2008 and the Saints 2009 were the best sides of their respective years. Both frittered away opportunities to set up a clear advantage in the 1st half of their GFs which killed them. Both were dominant sides but also had the misfortune to have an opponent who was very good also and so was able to make them pay for lapsing on the biggest day of the year.

Magpies were clearly the 2nd best team of 2011 behind Geelong and by the end of the year had been overtaken by the Hawks. Were lucky to be in the GF which is not true for the other 2.

We beat Hawthorn in the prelim so that's false (all be it being a very close game). Hawthorn overtook us in 2012 and haven't looked back since.

We peaked probably mid year and showed worrying lapses in form against St Kilda and Brisbane late in the year before the last round debacle (should've rested half the side as clearly they were tiring and the result was absolutely irrelevant) but Geelong definitely had our measure as the scoreline suggests.

 

[The Casey Cat]

I have Saints = Cats with Pies clearly behind the other 2.

For mine the Cats 2008 and the Saints 2009 were the best sides of their respective years. Both frittered away opportunities to set up a clear advantage in the 1st half of their GFs which killed them. Both were dominant sides but also had the misfortune to have an opponent who was very good also and so was able to make them pay for lapsing on the biggest day of the year.

Magpies were clearly the 2nd best team of 2011 behind Geelong and by the end of the year had been overtaken by the Hawks. Were lucky to be in the GF which is not true for the other 2.

Again go back and look up scores of Saints v Dogs prelim in 09.

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[Royal Flash]

Essendon 1999 deserves a dishonourable mention also.

Was the best team of the H/A season, ladder leaders, twice beat North who were the next best, flogged Sydney in the QF only to get beaten by a Carlton side in the Prelim who they'd absolutely thrashed twice in the H/A season. North were basically handed that flag on a platter as Carlton were at best a fair side only imo.

1999 must still piss Essendon fans off no end.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

collingwood 11' were the definition of a 'well oiled machine'

i'm taking geelong 08 in this debate though....

it's funny if this was a rock papar scissors contest geelong>collingwood>st kilda>geelong (ross lyon has the wood over geelong, the only important game he didn't beat them in was 09 GF

 

[Seeds]

Agree it you consider the question only over the 21 H&A rounds. Difference is the other 2 finished the season much better than Collingwood who limped into the GF. Consider the whole season and Collingwood clearly 3rd for mine.

Skilda limped into the finals, they lost two games late in the home and away and barely scrapped past Footscray in the prelim. Geelong wasn't exactly in great form either at the very end. We didn't play well against the dogs in the prelim, although not to the same degree that the pies and saints struggled in their prelims. We carried a lot of players with injuries into the 2008 gf and it showed.

 

[iameviljez]

They sure did win a lot of games
Wins H&A 2007-2011
07 18
08 21
09 18
10 17
11 19

The era is well tarnished by 2008, IMO it should've been a minimum of four flags, they got 3 ( a great effort) but with that team "under performed".

I thought three flags was pretty right, we were the best team in it for three of those five years. If all had actually been fair, though, we would have dropped 09 and won 2008. Hawthorn certainly didn't need another flag and StKilda could do with one - the footy Gods are cruel to those they hate.

 

[iameviljez]

Never been to a home and away like it. The noise from the first bounce was extraordinary, just a relentless, compelling, full on game. It was brilliant.

I was in France at the time and I missed it. Am actually considering watching the replay of a H and A game that Geelong lost.

 

[MarkT2]

I think the record from Round 13 2010 and finishing Round 23 2011 reads:

Played: 35
Won: 32
Lost: 2 (both by 3 points)
Drawn: 1
Percentage: 175%

And we changed the coach hey...

 

[MightyHawks]

All 3 of those sides would smash the current Hawks side

Are you seriously suggesting three teams who were able to dominate a Home & Away season like few other teams but have the common link of failing on Grand Final Day would beat the 2013-2015 Hawthorn team on Grand Final Day (A team renowned for playing its best footy on Grand Final Day)?

 

[Gone Critical]

Saints blew chances and unlucky looking at their season record but they were actually fortunate to even make that GF in the end. Bulldogs should have done them in that prelim.

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Again go back and look up scores of Saints v Dogs prelim in 09.

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Coulda Woulda Shoulda. Based on this argument you can equally say Cats of 2007 were lucky to scrape that 5 point win aghast the Pies in the PF. Fact is in 2007 pies finished 5 games behind the Cats in the H&A and in 2009 Dogs finished 5 games behind the Saints in 2009. Maybe one of these 2 might have snagged a win with some luck but as usual in these settings the dominant team won

Another good example is Hawks 2012-14. 3 GFs, 2 flags. Won the prelim in 2012 by5 points, 2013 by 3 points despite 7 less scoring shots and 2014 by5 points. Common denominator in all these is the dominant team won when they had to and the lesser team didn't go on to be a threat in the next season. Only exception is Hawks of 2011 who at the time looked better than Pies in the PF even though they lost, they went on to be the better side.

 

[Gone Critical]

We beat Hawthorn in the prelim so that's false (all be it being a very close game). Hawthorn overtook us in 2012 and haven't looked back since.

We peaked probably mid year and showed worrying lapses in form against St Kilda and Brisbane late in the year before the last round debacle (should've rested half the side as clearly they were tiring and the result was absolutely irrelevant) but Geelong definitely had our measure as the scoreline suggests.

Think most people left that night thinking the Hawks blew it. It was a fantastic win against the odds but we didn't look convincing that night.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Coulda Woulda Shoulda. Based on this argument you can equally say Cats of 2007 were lucky to scrape that 5 point win aghast the Pies in the PF. Fact is in 2007 pies finished 5 games behind the Cats in the H&A and in 2009 Dogs finished 5 games behind the Saints in 2009. Maybe one of these 2 might have snagged a win with some luck but as usual in these settings the dominant team won

Another good example is Hawks 2012-14. 3 GFs, 2 flags. Won the prelim in 2012 by5 points, 2013 by 3 points despite 7 less scoring shots and 2014 by5 points. Common denominator in all these is the dominant team won when they had to and the lesser team didn't go on to be a threat in the next season. Only exception is Hawks of 2011 who at the time looked better than Pies in the PF even though they lost, they went on to be the better side.

Fair call but Saints really were struggling in that match. Failed to trouble the scorers until the second quarter. Were under siege again most of the last quarter. Went forward a couple of times and only superhuman efforts from Riewoldt saved them. Point I'm trying to make in this case is they really weren't going so well at the time. There scoring had dried up. In the examples you list above the winning prelim side were in considerably better form before and after scraping in their prelim.

 

[Seedsfan]

Pies, Cats, Saints

 

[Gone Critical]

Fair call but Saints really were struggling in that match. Failed to trouble the scorers until the second quarter. Were under siege again most of the last quarter. Went forward a couple of times and only superhuman efforts from Riewoldt saved them. Point I'm trying to make in this case is they really weren't going so well at the time. There scoring had dried up. In the examples you list above the winning prelim side were in considerably better form before and after scraping in their prelim.

I disagree. Thought they were still the best team going into the GF even though they faced a formidable opponent. Same as Cats 2008. Like the Cars they should have really won the GF but they failed to put the Cats away when they were on top and Cats were good enough to strike back. Almost the identical outcome as 2008 with the Cats changing roles

 

[iameviljez]

Are you seriously suggesting three teams who were able to dominate a Home & Away season like few other teams but have the common link of failing on Grand Final Day would beat the 2013-2015 Hawthorn team on Grand Final Day (A team renowned for playing its best footy on Grand Final Day)?

A team renowned for playing its best footy on Grand Final Day*
*(apart from 2012 and 2013)

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Geelong lost 1 game (96 points defeat to Collingwood), had a percentage of 161.84% (2672-1651)

St Kilda lost 2 games (Late season, 2 points to Essendon, 5 points to North), had a percentage of 155.71% (2197-1411)

Collingwood lost 2 games (Lost twice in season to Geelong), had a percentage of 167.66% (2592-1546)

All 3 top of the ladder teams that lost in the grand final

Absolute epic teams in an era of absolute great sides

How do you rank them?

Geelong 08, mainly cause that squad won two flags after that. Saints and Pies fell away badly soon after 09 and 11

 

[Sttew]

Saints 2009 had everything go against them on the big day.

yes. Inability to kick winning score and being kept goalless in 4Q to name 2 'things'. What did you have in mind?

 

[Adam H]

yes. Inability to kick winning score and being kept goalless in 4Q to name 2 'things'. What did you have in mind?

Weather injuries umpires didn't help.

 

[MightyHawks]

A team renowned for playing its best footy on Grand Final Day*
*(apart from 2012 and 2013)

Hawthorn learnt a lesson from 2012

But yes the 2013-2015 Hawthorn team has a terrific reputation for playing its best footy on Grand Final Day

Anyway its always interesting seeing comparisons of teams with terrific Home and Away records. Under our finals system there's no bonus for finishing on top, and there are certainly teams who have rested players and increased training loads in the second half of the season to ensure their team is in the best shape for September. Its not that you necessarily try to lose a game - it just might be that two players who would have played if it was a final are being managed

Geelong of 2009 is a shining example - they had no interest in competing for first spot with St Kilda
I always find it curious why St Kilda in 2009 were so keen to win every Home & Away match when that strategy hadn't worked for Geelong the previous year