Next flag - Carlton, Essendon or Richmond?

[rideclutch]

But the fact that your team plays somebody like Grigg over Miles is just hilarious. You mention the name to any Carlton fan, they just laugh.

Bizarre statement to make from someone with "the knowledge". Maybe stick to Carlton.

 

[SBYM]

Would love to see all 3 of the teams renew finals rivalries for a sustained period, because I think it will be a great spectacle.

I'd love to have the 'traditional Big 4' in the finals together. Melbourne would be going off its head.

Pipe dream atm, I'm afraid...

 

[rideclutch]

This thread is kinda the epitome of pointless discussion, but I suppose we are on the main board.

Too early to tell whether what Carlton has done will be a success, but I like that they have some young KPP's who've shown a bit at the level and an established young gun in Cripps. A few ticks there despite the odd thumping.

Haven't seen enough of the Bombers to comment this year, but happy to ignore any results and re-evaluate for next season.

 

[Ron The Bear]

But the fact that your team plays somebody like Grigg over Miles is just hilarious. You mention the name to any Carlton fan, they just laugh.

Has had a fairly similar career output to a guy like Carrazzo in terms of games/b&f placings/Brownlow votes. Yeah Carrazzo had some flaws but I would've thought he was a fairly solid AFL citizen for a dozen years. Meanwhile Andy Collins is playing at Sandhurst, and Grigg's not being paid $700K like Dale Thomas - another player with similar overall career output.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

And here they come...

Grigg and Miles, are not even slightly similar players, the meatball and Caddy are keeping Miles out, Grigg as usual is doing a great job, so laugh away

Both are labelled midfielders. That makes them 'slightly similar'. Caddy is often seen pushed forward and was always meant to be a 5th or 6th midfielder when rotating.

It's call One goes out, shuffle the team a little and another goes in. No need to be too direct.

Showing that Carlton fans really don't know a lot about football, because Grigg has been good this year. (and more than serviceable since we got him). He also plays a very different role to Miles.

Nobody is denying Grigg has improved a lot but was never a player meant for the blues. Carlton fans didn't like him much when he was playing for us. To this day, he does on the odd occasion show why he had to be traded. Just mention his name to any Carlton supporter and pretty much most will end up replying with 'pfft'!

It's call One goes out, shuffle the team a little and another goes in. It's about versatility, not like for like. Miles shouldn't be in the twos, simple as that. Just be grateful that I do rate another one of your players.

Bizarre statement to make from someone with "the knowledge". Maybe stick to Carlton.

How about you go and test it out for yourself. You'll be surprised.

Has had a fairly similar career output to a guy like Carrazzo in terms of games/b&f placings/Brownlow votes. Yeah Carrazzo had some flaws but I would've thought he was a fairly solid AFL citizen for a dozen years. Meanwhile Andy Collins is playing at Sandhurst, and Grigg's not being paid $700K like Dale Thomas - another player with similar overall career output.

There comes a time where players begin to lose the support from their fans. That was the case with Carrazzo in his last years, and I like him very much. It wouldn't be much different to any other team with their players, regardless of where the team is positioned. It may seem like a sign of depth when their are highly rated players running around the VFL, but it is easy to notice those in the AFL teams, some that get questioned (why are they getting a game before others?).

I look around and see comments from Richmond fans constantly questioning the likes of Grigg, Houli and even B.Ellis. I even question them myself, especially when you have the likes of Markov (who is finally getting a game), Lloyd and Miles who seem like greater advantages to the team. You'll have your experienced heads in Cotchin, Riewoldt, Martin, Rance and Edwards when he returns. Even Prestia and Caddy a experienced leaders. But wouldn't it be greater to further test out the depth rather than simply brag about how good it is, smashing financially crippled VFL teams with no affiliation to any AFL club. It's called transitioning. Be grateful that I rate some of your younger talent and don't get so worked up over somebody on their way out.

Also, Carlton has been under different management for many years. That includes three different coaches and three different list managers, all with a different approach on how to move the team forward. Yes Grigg was moved on about 7 to 8 seasons ago, but hadn't the club kept Ratten or gone after somebody else, we most likely may have not thrown everything at Daisy and some of those that have left would still have hung around. Our drafting was poor up until last year, having only found Cripps but our club wasn't as in a bad position compared to where it is now. Although the direction is the complete opposite. Collins was and could have been an alright player but a set of different eyes didn't see it. He is acceptable for the argument, but Daisy is a completely different kettle of fish.

 

[Ron The Bear]

There comes a time where players begin to lose the support from their fans. That was the case with Carrazzo in his last years, and I like him very much. It wouldn't be much different to any other team with their players, regardless of where the team is positioned. It may seem like a sign of depth when their are highly rated players running around the VFL, but it is easy to notice those in the AFL teams, some that get questioned (why are they getting a game before others?).

I look around and see comments from Richmond fans constantly questioning the likes of Grigg, Houli and even B.Ellis. I even question them myself, especially when you have the likes of Markov (who is finally getting a game), Lloyd and Miles who seem like greater advantages to the team. You'll have your experienced heads in Cotchin, Riewoldt, Martin, Rance and Edwards when he returns. Even Prestia and Caddy a experienced leaders. But wouldn't it be greater to further test out the depth rather than simply brag about how good it is, smashing financially crippled VFL teams with no affiliation to any AFL club. It's called transitioning. Be grateful that I rate some of your younger talent and don't get so worked up over somebody on their way out.

Also, Carlton has been under different management for many years. That includes three different coaches and three different list managers, all with a different approach on how to move the team forward. Yes Grigg was moved on about 7 to 8 seasons ago, but hadn't the club kept Ratten or gone after somebody else, we most likely may have not thrown everything at Daisy and some of those that have left would still have hung around. Our drafting was poor up until last year, having only found Cripps but our club wasn't as in a bad position compared to where it is now. Although the direction is the complete opposite. Collins was and could have been an alright player but a set of different eyes didn't see it. He is acceptable for the argument, but Daisy is a completely different kettle of fish.

s**t mate, we've tried the same number of AFL debutants (i.e. not recycled players having their first Richmond game) as Carlton since the start of last year, and put roughly the same number of senior games into them. It's possible Grigg only has 40-odd games left in him, but right now he's firmly best 18. We'll be younger than Melbourne on Monday night and there's no sense overloading the team with kids at 4-0.

Nobody's bragging, Drummond did his 'good' knee today while Griffiths apparently got some sort of head knock again. We're a couple of injuries away from sliding down the ladder.

 

[Benny78]

Nakia Cockatoo will win a flag before any of these 3 clubs. As for Crazy John I don't think he even footballed.

 

[Tiger2709]

Nakia Cockatoo will win a flag before any of these 3 clubs. As for Crazy John I don't think he even footballed.

Were talking AFL senior flags, try and keep up

 

[Moshie The Mook]

Haven't seen enough of the Bombers to comment this year, but happy to ignore any results and re-evaluate for next season.

Unless you're into tragicomedies and slow motion train wrecks, you can save yourself 2 hours most weekends avoiding them. I like to watch them with Benny Hill music playing in the background, coz that's how I roll.

The highlights of their year have been when they lost to Carlton, almost got run down by Brisbane, and then their coach said they have hit the wall fitness wise after a long and gruelling campaign. And the best part is it's only round 5.

I only watch carlton when we're playing them. They are soft, unskilled, and introverted.

 

[matt_y106]

just curious as to which GWS rejects that played on the weekend you think won't be good enough to be a contributor on a contending team?

Phillips

 

[Lsta062]

It's amazing how many people don't get why Carlton picked up the likes of Palmer, Lamb, Sumner etc.

We have that much cap space and there is no point using picks in the 200s when you can get some VFL quality in to help development whilst meeting the minimum TPP.

Carlton are doing decently in the VFL now so what you say makes sense. Beat Williamstown. I thought that they picked those players up to play in the AFL so I have been a critic of Carlton's strategy, but if this is the reason then I don't mind that approach.

A good reserves side is also good for confidence. Geelong, Hawthorn and Bulldogs had good reserves side around the period they won a Premiership in. I think Port Adelaide had a decent reserves side when they nearly made the Grand Final in 2014. The Sydney and GWS reserves have been smashing teams albeit in the NEAFL.

 

[Lsta062]

Haven't seen enough of the Bombers to comment this year, but happy to ignore any results and re-evaluate for next season.

I think Essendon are a decent side. They beat Brisbane and Hawthorn, then fell over against Carlton in heavy rain. They then had a 6-day break from that wet encounter against Carlton to recover and play Adelaide at AO. Adelaide are tough to begin with, but playing them after that and the fact that Adelaide played in AO the week before so didn't travel was a bit of a bad combination for Essendon.

There are signs that they can still be a decent side even this year IMO, but we need to see how they go against Collingwood. In the long run, they look like they can gather a good enough side to win a Premiership. They certainly have a skilled group of youth.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

s**t mate, we've tried the same number of AFL debutants (i.e. not recycled players having their first Richmond game) as Carlton since the start of last year, and put roughly the same number of senior games into them. It's possible Grigg only has 40-odd games left in him, but right now he's firmly best 18. We'll be younger than Melbourne on Monday night and there's no sense overloading the team with kids at 4-0.

Nobody's bragging, Drummond did his 'good' knee today while Griffiths apparently got some sort of head knock again. We're a couple of injuries away from sliding down the ladder.

To be fair, I never said overload with kids. I just questioned why certain players were missing out over others. Lloyd is 27 and I believe he earned his spot last year, as he will further strengthen your forward line. Miles is 25 and would be in the perfect time of his career to be playing his best footy. Markov is the only young player I mentioned, who when playing last year, Tigers fans were all over him (and for a good reason). He can have as much impact on a game as a Docherty or a Laird.

Such players shouldn't be wasted, running around in the twos on a regular basis.

 

[cannot]

We're not that s**t

 

[Ron The Bear]

To be fair, I never said overload with kids. I just questioned why certain players were missing out over others. Lloyd is 27 and I believe he earned his spot last year, as he will further strengthen your forward line. Miles is 25 and would be in the perfect time of his career to be playing his best footy. Markov is the only young player I mentioned, who when playing last year, Tigers fans were all over him (and for a good reason). He can have as much impact on a game as a Docherty or a Laird.

Such players shouldn't be wasted, running around in the twos on a regular basis.

Markov's in this week, having not shown that much in the VFL according to reports. Not sure what the knock is on Miles, but he was dropped a couple of times last year despite finishing 6th in the b&f. He's suited to stoppage play rather than the faster ball movement we're trying to implement this year. In hindsight, wouldn't be surprised if he was hawked around during the last trade period.

Once a quintessential Hardwick type, now perhaps left behind by the changing game.

 

[Tiger2709]

Markov's in this week, having not shown that much in the VFL according to reports. Not sure what the knock is on Miles, but he was dropped a couple of times last year despite finishing 6th in the b&f. He's suited to stoppage play rather than the faster ball movement we're trying to implement this year. In hindsight, wouldn't be surprised if he was hawked around during the last trade period.

Once a quintessential Hardwick type, now perhaps left behind by the changing game.

Hopefully he is working hard to get back in, that's one thing we have lacked in the midfield for years, someone good enough to be top 22 that can't get a game, pressuring those that are getting a game.

 

[footyfanatic09]

I think you can scratch Richmond off the list of being the next flag winner .
They are better than ESS or carl at the moment no doubt but I think they aren't good enough to win a flag in the next couple of years and won't have enough of a core group of youngsters to win one in the next 5-7 years.
Ess are in a similar boat but further along than Rich with the kids coming through .
I believe Carlton are further along again and will likely be the first if they can attract some BIG free agents .
Hope I'm wrong and the Bombers are the first .

 

[citizen-erased]

I think Essendon are a decent side. They beat Brisbane and Hawthorn, then fell over against Carlton in heavy rain. They then had a 6-day break from that wet encounter against Carlton to recover and play Adelaide at AO. Adelaide are tough to begin with, but playing them after that and the fact that Adelaide played in AO the week before so didn't travel was a bit of a bad combination for Essendon.

There are signs that they can still be a decent side even this year IMO, but we need to see how they go against Collingwood. In the long run, they look like they can gather a good enough side to win a Premiership. They certainly have a skilled group of youth.

good side, not great.
What is ideal is our future team. We have blooded the under 22's a fair bit out of necessity.
I rate our kids as a very strong group based on AFL exposure, plus another 5-6 who, if they come off, will give us a premiership side. (Mutch, Clarke, Ridley, Begley & Francis are key)
What we are missing are a couple of good lockdown/attacking small/medium defenders & ideally an elite ruckman would be good. If not, one who has the ruck work of Berger and mobility of McKernan.

next few weeks are big for us.
Should beat Collingwood tuesday.
Dees game likely an even-ish affair, esp if we can get Myers in to help with clearances.
Freo have risen from the ashes. What looked a positive game 2 weeks ago now looks a dangerous game.
Cats, Dogs, Tigers, Giants & Port before the break.
Could win 3, could win 5, could win none.
5-7 is a pass for a good team. 7-5 means we are nearly ready. 2-9 makes it ugly.

 

[Andronicus]

Unless you're into tragicomedies and slow motion train wrecks, you can save yourself 2 hours most weekends avoiding them. I like to watch them with Benny Hill music playing in the background, coz that's how I roll.

The highlights of their year have been when they lost to Carlton, almost got run down by Brisbane, and then their coach said they have hit the wall fitness wise after a long and gruelling campaign. And the best part is it's only round 5.

So after all those negatives, it must be hurting to realise that the last few years have been hell for Essendon......and we are still in a conversation about whether your club or the Bombers will get a flag first. How the * are you not clearly in front after suspensions and draft sanctions?

Maybe that benny hill music isn't playing during Bombers games as much as just the constant sound you hear as the soundtrack to being a tigers supporter.

 

[smasha]

So after all those negatives, it must be hurting to realise that the last few years have been hell for Essendon......and we are still in a conversation about whether your club or the Bombers will get a flag first. How the **** are you not clearly in front after suspensions and draft sanctions?

Maybe that benny hill music isn't playing during Bombers games as much as just the constant sound you hear as the soundtrack to being a tigers supporter.

#

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Phillips

not in best 22 and not in the team when that comment was made.

the funniest thing about this 'you can't catch GWS by taking their rejects' theory is that one of the crows best players is carlton 'reject' sam jacobs. jeremy laidler was a carlton reject and has played in a grand final. poaching players from teams ahead of you will get you nowhere but poaching players who can't make perennial cellar dwellar carlton's best 22 seems to be a winning strategy.

 

[Grrr]

Sort of a pointless thread. Maybe it should be renamed it to the top 4 spot, some semblance of a possibility. No team outside the 8 last year can say they are a chance to take a Premiership anytime soon. Would be nice but very unlikely. If any of the teams make the 8 this year they have done well. Richmond at 0-4 can feel the best chance so far, but with a tough run coming could be back with the pack very quickly. Could also be argued that we are in the right age bracket to push higher given our best players are about 25-28 years old, but a lot would have to go right four us to make the top 4 much less a premiership.

 

[GoTigers2015]

Why are Carlton even an option. In 2015 Jack Gunston kicked more than the entire Carlton score in the round 17 flogging. Fast forward almost 2 years and Robbie Gray almost repeated this feat. He was ahead of the Blues at 3/4 time until a few junk time goals got the Blues in front. Seems like a 50 year rebuild.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Nakia Cockatoo will win a flag before any of these 3 clubs. As for Crazy John I don't think he even footballed.

if Geelong play in a GF this year, will Nakia even be best 22?

 

[Moshie The Mook]

So after all those negatives, it must be hurting to realise that the last few years have been hell for Essendon......and we are still in a conversation about whether your club or the Bombers will get a flag first. How the **** are you not clearly in front after suspensions and draft sanctions?

Maybe that benny hill music isn't playing during Bombers games as much as just the constant sound you hear as the soundtrack to being a tigers supporter.

Rubbish. Thread was started in 2014 when we were languishing at 3-10; and before we started our almighty 9 straight wins charge towards the finals.

As it stands today, we are clearly ahead of the other 2, and will continue to be well ahead for the foreseeable future.