List Mgmt. Gibbs - 2017 trade discussions! (Gibbs swapped for Wigg or 2nd)

Do you think Gibbs will be an Adelaide player by the end of this trade period?

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Malifice said:
I dont really want to discuss this with you because my gut tells me you're just trolling.

Seeing as you brought it up, last year we traded our future second rounder (this years 2nd) and Tuohy for Geelongs 1st rounder this year and Smedts (who I think they wanted to get rid of for a SC dump). That 1st rounder (plus 45 and 58) went to GWS for Marchbank, Pickett and GWS' second rounder. this year

End result is we shifted our second rounder this year down a few spots, and handed over [Tuohy, 45 and 58] for [Marchbank (originally 6), Pickett (originally 4) and Smedts]. We also did a handshake deal to take Palmer off their hands as a salary cap dump for pick 135.

Worth it in every conceivable way. Marchbank for Tuohy makes it worth it (and I rate Tuohy).

In 2015 we got Plowman, pick 8, and (a bunch of spuds) for Geelongs 1st rounder in 2016 (obtained in swap for Lachie Henderson - wound up being pick 17) 28, 77 and 95 (the latter two picks were not used).

In effect it was [Plowman and pick 8 - used on Harry Mckay] for [Lachie Henderson and pick 28].

How are those deals bad for us?
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The main downside is you have accumulated numerous average players from GWS in amongst a few quality players, who are taking a spot on your list that you could be using to develop other younger players.

Normally when you rebuild a list, you cut the deadwood who won't win you a flag & have as many youngsters as possible on the list to develop, because the odds are a high number won't make it.
 
Malifice said:
I dont really want to discuss this with you because my gut tells me you're just trolling.

Seeing as you brought it up, last year we traded our future second rounder (this years 2nd) and Tuohy for Geelongs 1st rounder this year and Smedts (who I think they wanted to get rid of for a SC dump). That 1st rounder (plus 45 and 58) went to GWS for Marchbank, Pickett and GWS' second rounder. this year

End result is we shifted our second rounder this year down a few spots, and handed over [Tuohy, 45 and 58] for [Marchbank (originally 6), Pickett (originally 4) and Smedts]. We also did a handshake deal to take Palmer off their hands as a salary cap dump for pick 135.

Worth it in every conceivable way. Marchbank for Tuohy makes it worth it (and I rate Tuohy).

In 2015 we got Plowman, pick 8, and (a bunch of spuds) for Geelongs 1st rounder in 2016 (obtained in swap for Lachie Henderson - wound up being pick 17) 28, 77 and 95 (the latter two picks were not used).

In effect it was [Plowman and pick 8 - used on Harry Mckay] for [Lachie Henderson and pick 28].

How are those deals bad for us?
Click to expand...

I am not trolling. I simply don't rate Pickett. I also don't rate Boekhorst, Lamb, Jones, Jaksch, Sumner, Palmer, Gorringe off the top of my head. Wright and Kerridge I don't really think are your future either. Getting Marchbank is nice, A-grade potential, Plowman looking like he could be a B-grader, which is good. But in a rebuild you need to get as much young talent as possible, each year, and let them develop. If they don't come on, delist. All your first rounders won't come on, so some of those deals will look worse, some may come on and the deals will look like steals. By accepting so many spuds, Carlton have denied themselves of several young, future cogs that could take them to that next level.
 
Kane McGoodwin said:
The main downside is you have accumulated numerous average players from GWS in amongst a few quality players, who are taking a spot on your list that you could be using to develop other younger players.

Normally when you rebuild a list, you cut the deadwood who won't win you a flag & have as many youngsters as possible on the list to develop, because the odds are a high number won't make it.
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Mate, we needed them filling list spots. We delisted something like 30 players in 2 years. We ****ed up that many drafts we had zero depth as well.

Palmer is a waste of space, but he's actually useful in our VFL and as a sort of serviceable mature mid should one of Murphy or Gibbs go down. Of the others there isSumner who is a VFL toiler, Gorringe who is a spud and Phillips who has been a serviceable back up ruckman who we might keep to have a look at. Lamb played a bit last year, but probably isnt going to make it at the top level.

I cant fault the Plowman and Marchbank trades; both those blokes have been worth it and look to be kew members of our defence for the next decade.

The Jacksh trade before SOS got to the club was terrible. Technically SOS won that trade as well, because he was at GWS when we traded for Jacksh!
 

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RePete said:
I am not trolling. I simply don't rate Pickett.
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He's got talent, whether he has the mental state is the question. Needs to get his head around AFL structures.
I also don't rate Boekhorst, Lamb, Jones, Jaksch, Sumner, Palmer, Gorringe off the top of my head.
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Neither do I. They're all spuds or depth at best. Jacksh kicked 5 in the VFL and has been having a good year. Maybe the penny has dropped for him.

I expect the lot of them to be delisted within 18 months. None of them form part of our future going forwards.

Wright and Kerridge I don't really think are your future either.
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I agree. You'll notice I haven't mentioned them as our future either. Toilers that provide depth. I dont need to tell you blokes that, youve seen them play. Perhaps being a bit unfair on Wright, he was probably de-listed by you blokes a bit prematurely. He;s had some pretty good games for us.

Hard to gt a gig as a small forward in a side with Betts.

Our future is around the core of Docherty, Weitering, Cripps, Petrovsky-Seaton, Marchbank, Plowman, C Curnow, Silvagni, McKay, Cuningham, Fisher, Williamson, Mcreadie, Byrne, Pickett.

Currently guided by the senior players of Murphy, Kruezer, Gibbs, Rowe, A Silvagni (who has been really good), Casboult, Simpson, White, E Curnow.

We're only a year and a half (two drafts) into the rebuild. Talk to me again in 2-3 years and we can see how we're progressing.

Notice how were concentrating the actual talent at the 22 and younger mark, and building a warchest for Free agency the likes of which has never been seen?

Getting Marchbank is nice, A-grade potential, Plowman looking like he could be a B-grader, which is good. But in a rebuild you need to get as much young talent as possible, each year, and let them develop. If they don't come on, delist. All your first rounders won't come on, so some of those deals will look worse, some may come on and the deals will look like steals. By accepting so many spuds, Carlton have denied themselves of several young, future cogs that could take them to that next level.
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If you're calling Plowman B grade you dont watch Carlton play. He is every bit the A grade backman after 30 or so games.
 
relapse said:
Wasn't a myth, the door was wide open to bring Pav home at the end of 2002.

At the time I was told by a fairly reliable source that there was definitely talks between Adelaide and Pav during 2002 and Pavlich had put his contract on hold and expressed his willingness to return home. Pavlich finally confirmed it about 15 years later

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-05-13/i-explored-going-home-pav

"FREMANTLE skipper Matthew Pavlich says he strongly considered returning to Adelaide early on in his AFL career but is glad he decided to stay at the Dockers."

I can also sayi with 100% certainty that Port was never an option for Pavlich (even though Rucci was desperately trying to link them with Pavlich), he was happy at Freo and only wanted to leave if he could play for Adelaide.

It's easy to look back now with regret because of what could have been, but at the time Pav was still a very raw 21 year old (who was still 2-3 years away from his best football) while Carey was the one who they believed was the safe bet because he would have made an immediate impact.

Once the door was shut in 2002 so did the Crows chances of ever getting Pavlich after that.
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Anyone reading that article can see that it doesn't say what you said it does
 
Sanders said:
If true would be gross incompetence to expect a reluctant seller to make the running
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Possibly. Nothing to do with the point though. There was no thought of "folding".
 
Sanders said:
Yes: and they've been doing it since the beginning
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Do you really think so? Do you really believe that the majority of the people here are that stupid?
It could not be that, most of us stupids, think of first picks the way we do, just because they are the only ones we have, to bargain with? Regardless of where they fall?
The only consolation I have is the belief that the majority of the people here are just as silly as me!:(:p
 
Vhaluus said:
It is YOUR list management 'genius' who screwed up here, not ours. our list management have proven themselves over the past decade, yours hasn't proven he's capable of doing anything but getting in the fish John West rejects (GWS offcasts)
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Yeah Nobes was responsible for that and he has gone now. First year he was not involved and new guys decided to wait another 5 years before even thinking about a premiership. NOT EVEN ONE TRADE ...
 
Messiah said:
Yeah Nobes was responsible for that and he has gone now. First year he was not involved and new guys decided to wait another 5 years before even thinking about a premiership. NOT EVEN ONE TRADE ...
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Noble was not the genius behind it all.

Noble was the genius behind the Tippet cheating.
 
Messiah said:
Yeah Nobes was responsible for that and he has gone now. First year he was not involved and new guys decided to wait another 5 years before even thinking about a premiership. NOT EVEN ONE TRADE ...
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Teams don't go into trade week unprepared. Us going into trade week with no targets would have been because Noble didn't chase anyone. Whether he was with the Lions by trade week wouldn't have impacted the work he'd of done all year in putting names on the board on who to potentially trade for.
 

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crowsup said:
Do you really think so? Do you really believe that the majority of the people here are that stupid?
It could not be that, most of us stupids, think of first picks the way we do, just because they are the only ones we have, to bargain with? Regardless of where they fall?
The only consolation I have is the belief that the majority of the people here are just as silly as me!:(:p
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Well I think it's incredibly stupid to comment on a thread content without any idea of whether what you're saying is true :thumbsu:
 
Sanders said:
So linguistic semantics is more important to you than substantive content?
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No. I just pointed out that someone's posted quote didn't support their argument. You've been quoting me ever since with a different, correct, but unrelated point.
 
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