Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[HARKER]

The pay off is huge but this year showed he's still a kid that needs to be given time to get comfortable. After a few shocking weeks he really got going down back in the end.
Long term I personally like McKay, SOS and Weiters fwd - Charlie midfield while ASOS, Jones, Marchbank, Plow and Macreadie rotate KPD

The other part of the pay-off would be to have someone running the forward line.

We have our 'director' in the back-line and will have one in Cripps for the mids. Weitering directing the forward line is something I'd like to see.

 

[zeeCFC]

The other part of the pay-off would be to have someone running the forward line.

We have our 'director' in the back-line and will have one in Cripps for the mids. Weitering directing the forward line is something I'd like to see.

Hope he doesn't get in Lynch's way!

 

[Arr0w]

If Brander was seen to be a bullet-proof quality pick, whilst Cerra, Dow, Rayner somewhat speculative, then maybe.

Otherwise, I cannot see how or why we'd be drafting KPF's or KPD's.
KPF's just take so much time to develop and that's the quality ones and even then we have relative busts along the way. See TBoyd, McCartin, Schache.

I say relative busts and meaning performance, to date. None of the above have shown anything near what you'd expect from a pick #1.


EDIT: Just on KPF's; I'm surprised that we've largely dismissed the notion of Weitering settling into a forward role.
It didn't work out as we had planned this year, but should we just shelve the idea?

No issue with persisting with Weitering forward. If that doesn't work, I am assuming you would rather target a midfielder with pick 3 and attract a FA like Lynch the year after?

 

[HARKER]

No issue with persisting with Weitering forward. If that doesn't work, I am assuming you would rather target a midfielder with pick 3 and attract a FA like Lynch the year after?

I can't see it not working, unless Weitering is against the idea.

Marking: tick
Kicking: tick
Tank: tick
Smarts: tick
Leadership: tick

What we haven't really seen yet, is aggression.
He has got it in him and maybe being injury free will take his mind of matters and allow him to play with more freedom.

If we are set for a launch on Lynch, I'd leave it at that and if we don't get him, so be it and we put the effort into developing Harry, Charlie and in turn, Ben.
Who knows what next year has in store also, if we retain our first? King? Lukocius?

 

[Kramer1]

I can't see it not working, unless Weitering is against the idea.

Marking: tick
Kicking: tick
Tank: tick
Smarts: tick
Leadership: tick

What we haven't really seen yet, is aggression.
He has got it in him and maybe being injury free will take his mind of matters and allow him to play with more freedom.

If we are set for a launch on Lynch, I'd leave it at that and if we don't get him, so be it and we put the effort into developing Harry, Charlie and in turn, Ben.
Who knows what next year has in store also, if we retain our first? King? Lukocius?

Speed: Cross

How many key forwards succeed without a reasonable burst of acceleration?

Could play him in a high, roaming role, but Charlie seems perfectly suited to that role.

Playing him close to goal is a waste of his talents.

His last few weeks have confirmed, for me at least, where he should play.

 

[HARKER]

Speed: Cross

How many key forwards succeed without a reasonable burst of acceleration?

Could play him in a high, roaming role, but Charlie seems perfectly suited to that role.

Playing him close to goal is a waste of his talents.

His last few weeks have confirmed, for me at least, where he should play.

You have to be smart enough to know when to go and to separate and Weitering can do this.
If he's not fast enough forward, he won't be fast enough down back either.

All depends how we play the game and I see us playing a faster game next year, onwards. Smarts can equal speed.

 

[HBF]

W.A. guy that was overlooked last year, apparently for 'personal' issues.
I think he's averaging about 3 goals a game, mostly as a small forward, this year.

Get onto Youtube to see some of his hangs? Can take a mark.

I worry about personal issues which is heightened by the fact he's from WA.
Not sure we're in a position to take a gamble on a player.

 

[HBF]

I would love Kelly but think I'd rather get Hopper for pick 15-20 and keep our first (Rayner/Dow/Cerra/LDU) and hit up Lynch/Shiel next year.

I think.

There's no certainty in the draft, even with pick 3.
As long as we don't sell the farm, i'd be happy to use pick 3 to get Kelly, who we know is an elite mid at just 22 years old.

 

[gab213]

It wouldn't surprise to see Weitering play forward at some stage next year.

Bolton had said in an interview that he would be sent forward again for a block of games at the later stage of this year but that plan was shelved due to injuries to others.

I thought he showed some good signs playing forward earlier in the year, particularly in the game against the Swans where he had a big hand in the goals we scored early in the third quarter.

 

[DangerousD]

Now, it still seems like best case scenario is Crows get #10 from the Dees for Lever, then we trade Gibbs for #10. Then we couple #3+#10 for Kelly and Hopper.

Pick 3 and 10 will get the Kelly trade done with one of their picks in the 20's coming back. They will drive a hard bargain just like they did with Treloar 7+7-28 and like they did with Marchbank.

 

[DangerousD]

100% agree pick 3 is only for Kelly, as for a package deal I would say #3 + #10 is way overs, I would be offering #3 + Casboult compo if we get it. My reasoning is purely because they are both out of contract, #3 is adequate compensation for an out of contract Kelly, I don't think we'd be burning any bridges if we forced their hand to accept that offer. As for Hopper, he's not shown enough to warrant #10, again I would think #22 is adequate.

All this talk about Kelly costing more than our first p1sses me off, yeah he's a great player but he's OOC, we'd be silly to pay more imo

It pisses you off? If you think GWS will except pick 3 for Kelly then you are in fantasy land. What did the Pies give up for Treloar? The Lions for Beams? The Cats for Danger and us for Judd?

3 and 10 with a second coming back will get Kelly.

 

[DangerousD]

Thought I'd try my hand at trade week, and this is what I came up with. I wanted to try and keep the trades as simple as possible( mainly because icbf doing more complicated ones ) and what I think is reasonable for both parties.

ASSETS

Gibbs
Casboult
Boekhorst
Jones* (valued at #15 - 1112 pts)

Pick 3(2234), 38(465), 56(194), 74(-)

TARGETS

Kelly
Hopper
Webb
Castagna
Balic

TRADES OUT

Gibbs to Adelaide = 10( Lever pick )
Casboult to FA = 22( tier 3 compo )
Boekhorst to Fremantle = Balic


TRADES IN

Kelly and Hopper = 3 & 22
OR if only Kelly or only Hopper, I've included a couple of options for the Kelly deal but I would prefer the #3 scenario.
Kelly = #3 or Jones* & 10 (2507 pts ~#2)
Hopper = 22
Castagna = 38
Webb = 56

SUMMARY

IN = Kelly, Hopper, Castagna, Webb, Balic, Pick 10
OUT = Gibbs, Casboult, Boekhorst, Picks 3, 38, 56
As I said these are fairly straightforward trades and it's basically 1 for 1, maybe SOS may look at packaging #3 & #10 to get an extra player but it looks unlikely.

Comments...

Other than your trade for Kelly and Hopper the rest is realistic. Im not sure what we off Castagna that Richmond don't. He is getting regular football a top 4 team.

Webb and Balic would be good additions.

 

[DangerousD]

payed way over #1 in the end.

7+7-28 doesn't equal more than pick 1 if thats what you meant.

 

[DangerousD]

If we were able to trade in some midfielder (Let's just leave Kelly aside for the moment) 3 of Hopper, Kennedy, Smith Balic, should we target Brander with pick 3?

I think it would be crazy considering he has played a lot of footy this year down back and it seems he is ranked highly as there is know one else. Im not sure how we would get 3 of the guys you mentioned without giving up pick 3 regardless.

If SOS wanted Brander then i would expect 1 of our KPD to be traded at some stage as we would be very top heavy

 

[DangerousD]

I worry about personal issues which is heightened by the fact he's from WA.
Not sure we're in a position to take a gamble on a player.

A rookie selection maybe, back the club to get the best out of him.

 

[Navara79]

Korcheck delisted

 

[Govinda blueboy]

7+7-28 doesn't equal more than pick 1 if thats what you meant.

ok you got me there, I forgot about that, but I still think he's over-rated. I don't know about fantasy land, i'm just of the opinion that we shouldn't be giving up multiple picks for 1 player in our position. If we can't get it done for 3 I would pull the pin and rather go to the draft.

 

[Govinda blueboy]

Other than your trade for Kelly and Hopper the rest is realistic. Im not sure what we off Castagna that Richmond don't. He is getting regular football a top 4 team.

Webb and Balic would be good additions.

I was thinking in the future that he may get squeezed as they already have Rioli, Lloyd, Bolton and looks like another good one this year with FS Patrick Naish

 

[zeeCFC]

Agree with Harks. Still see Hopper coming to us but don't think we'll have to pay as much as we thought we'd have to earlier in the year.

I'd go to GWS and offer first picks for 2017 and 2018 for Kelly, Hopper and a swap of our pick 38 with their pick 23

That's assuming Gibbs stays, otherwise too high a price

 

[HBF]

With Levi as backup, Kreuzer can play exclusively in the ruck and not as a ruck/forward. The alternative is Phillips as #2 which we saw last year just doesn't work.

Agreed.
Whilst Phillips is a reasonable ruckman, he and Kreuzer do not work well together.
Proof has well and truly been in the pudding this year.

 

[HBF]

I'm not sure why!
Probably finals football

And he'll play second fiddle to Selwood, Danger, Guthrie, Duncan and a couple of others - much like he is doing at GWS.
If he comes to Carlton he'll team up with Cripps and play the role he is very good at - inside mid bull.

 

[Banga19]

Amongst this seasons excitement of Marchbank, Jones, ASOS and Macreadie coming on to form an outstanding prospective key position defence, and C Curnow's developments in the forward line, I'd almost forgotten about our rolls royce in Weitering.

He has the class and the smarts to play a number of roles, and whilst he's not entirely surplus to our KPD needs, we can afford to give him another solid crack at CHF. He could also be a damaging loose man or attacking defender. Wherever he plays his footy next season I'm tipping something of a break out year, just such a talent.

 

[Soapy V]

No issue with persisting with Weitering forward. If that doesn't work, I am assuming you would rather target a midfielder with pick 3 and attract a FA like Lynch the year after?

I have no issue with him forward, but just not yet. He is a kid. Let him get experience and confidence at AFL level in the position he is best at. Once he is established and feels more like a genuine AFL star then he can spend time forward. Moving him back and forward won't do him any good at all IMO. He needs development time

I also want to see him spend time and gell with the other defenders. Time spent playing as a group is just as important and I think his ability to work with Marchbank Docherty Jones Plowman etc is vital for our future

 

[El Topo]

I have no issue with him forward, but just not yet. He is a kid. Let him get experience and confidence at AFL level in the position he is best at. Once he is established and feels more like a genuine AFL star then he can spend time forward. Moving him back and forward won't do him any good at all IMO. He needs development time

I also want to see him spend time and gell with the other defenders. Time spent playing as a group is just as important and I think his ability to work with Marchbank Docherty Jones Plowman etc is vital for our future

Yep, I suspect this is also linked to his lack of aggression this year. Aggression takes confidence and he's a 19 year old kid playing against men who has barely been allowed to settle in a position. Pump him up, bring out the inner psychopath, then shift him forward.

 

[Soapy V]

My hope (realistic?) for the trade/draft period

Kelly for Pick 3 and first round 2018. 2017 second round comes back
Hopper for Casboult compo
Balic for Boekhurst
Gibbs to Adelaide for first & third round picks

SOS to also do some late trades for us to have 5-7 draft picks this year plus 3-4 rookies.

Our midfield with Cripps & Ed fit and an improving Charlie SPS Cuningham Polson Pickett & Fisher looks very good and balanced for 2018 with lots of upside. Murphy to play outside and forward and have an even better year than this year. Defence & Midfield nearly set, List rebuild mostly completed and 2018 about getting 1 or 2 "big fish"