MFC Fans Only Non-Dees AFL thread: 2018 Edition: Weighed in the balance, who will be found wanting?

[Proper Gander]

Oliver ANB and Garlett were also dropped for the Geelong game but that's kinda irrelevant in the point

However that is the actual round 23 side against the dogs so Jetta wasn't playing.

Edit- upon further research the AFL tables says he played that game but I took that side from the AFL website match engine... confusing

I was following this vein of discussion until you posted. Please don’t post again on any topic. Many thanks

 

[Grimesy87]

Did a piece for the mainboard but its far too intelligent for them so here it is for you flogs, just a jog down memory lane of how amazing the Paul Roos regime was at melbourne.

Heres an example of where Carlton has failed in its list management. Its not Boltons fault where the club is at its Silvagni and the list management strategy.
This is the team that Paul Roos took over at the end of 2013, we were pathetic there was no value on the list and it was full of guys with no future in AFL

WE FINISHED 2-20 WITH 54%!!!


FB- Lynden Dunn, Colin Garland,Dean Terlich

HB- Tom McDonald, James Frawley, Mitchell Clisby

C- Jimmy Toumpas, Jack Trengove, Daniel Nicholson

HF- Aaron Davey, Chris Dawes, Sam Blease

FF- Jack Fitzpatrick, Jack Watts, Jeremy Howe

R- Max Gawn, Colin Sylvia, Nathan Jones

Int- David Rodan, Dean Kent, Matt Jones
Shannon Byrnes


This is the side Paul Roos named 3 years later in his final game.

• 
  
• Sam Frost, Tom McDonald, Neville Jetta*
• Jayden Hunt, Oscar Mcdonald, Tom Bugg
• Angus Brayshaw, Bernie Vince, Dom Tyson
• Sam Weiderman, Jack Watts, Clayton Oliver
• Christian Petracca, Jesse Hogan, Jeff Garlett
• Christian Salem, James Harmes, Alex Neal Bullen, Jeff Garlett
  
  Bolded are the players added to list by Roos.

Note that 11 of the 22 played against Carlton, plus we also had Jake Melksham on the list unable to play aswell as Jack Viney injured and Nathan Jones.
*Jetta was told he was to be delisted until Roos came in and put him down back for the first time in his career.
18 players Roos selected in 3 years that have built the core of our side whilst all of them are still on our list apart from Jack Watts, we also went from a 2-20 side and 54% to a 10-12 side and 97.6% in 3 years!!!

IMO Carlton have stuffed their rebuild up and will unfortunately spend another 3-5 years down the bottom unless they can get some senior talent into the side

Great post. I think the only thing worth realizing is that carlton have tried to bring some more experienced players in, players with a few years experience in the afl system. Not unlike Melbourne unloading pick 2 and 20 for Tyson and pick 9 (amongst some later picks). It really is double edged sword- trade off the potential of access to a player like kelly/bontempelli etc, or try to grab a player like Tyson who was extremely highly rated and add another top mid first rounder?

Obviously its been debated about the Tyson trade by everyone at Melbourne, but some of the trading carlton have undertaken were borderline reckless. Jaksch, whiley and pick 20 for pick 6 was a terrible trade considering jaksch had shown nothing, whiley even less, and then used pick 20 on a player they could have got at 50 (who's since been delisted). Couple that with the trades bringing in players like Phillip's, Smedts, Plowman, Garlett, Pickett and Sumner and letting go of established players like Touhy, Henderson, Gibbs etc over various years. I will give Marchbank a pass, and the deal to send menzel back to adelaide for kerridge and pick 30.

The biggest issue compounding all that is how poorly they have drafted. I'll admit, its rich of a Melbourne supporter to knock another clubs recruiting. But since 2009 they are as poor as us when it comes to first round selections. Names like Kane Lucas, Matthew Watson, bootsma (pick 20) menzel, boekhurst played less than 100 games combined. And I'm sorry blues fans, petrevski-seaton will be added to that list by end of next year. Obviously that is the void that is missing, players who would be 23-27 and leading the way (very similar to Melbourne years 2011-2015). Admittedly, all this was prior to Bolton taking over but heavily involved silvagni.

For blues fans, thank God for cripps (and you've got a good one there in McKay long term)

 

[djpaulydemon]

Great post. I think the only thing worth realizing is that carlton have tried to bring some more experienced players in, players with a few years experience in the afl system. Not unlike Melbourne unloading pick 2 and 20 for Tyson and pick 9 (amongst some later picks). It really is double edged sword- trade off the potential of access to a player like kelly/bontempelli etc, or try to grab a player like Tyson who was extremely highly rated and add another top mid first rounder?

Obviously its been debated about the Tyson trade by everyone at Melbourne, but some of the trading carlton have undertaken were borderline reckless. Jaksch, whiley and pick 20 for pick 6 was a terrible trade considering jaksch had shown nothing, whiley even less, and then used pick 20 on a player they could have got at 50 (who's since been delisted). Couple that with the trades bringing in players like Phillip's, Smedts, Plowman, Garlett, Pickett and Sumner and letting go of established players like Touhy, Henderson, Gibbs etc over various years. I will give Marchbank a pass, and the deal to send menzel back to adelaide for kerridge and pick 30.

The biggest issue compounding all that is how poorly they have drafted. I'll admit, its rich of a Melbourne supporter to knock another clubs recruiting. But since 2009 they are as poor as us when it comes to first round selections. Names like Kane Lucas, Matthew Watson, bootsma (pick 20) menzel, boekhurst played less than 100 games combined. And I'm sorry blues fans, petrevski-seaton will be added to that list by end of next year. Obviously that is the void that is missing, players who would be 23-27 and leading the way (very similar to Melbourne years 2011-2015). Admittedly, all this was prior to Bolton taking over but heavily involved silvagni.

For blues fans, thank God for cripps (and you've got a good one there in McKay long term)

I always thought Silvagni was making the same mistake twice when he traded in all those ex GWS players.

Marchbank and to some extent Plowman have worked, but they could have drafted some high quality mids to help Cripps out with those high picks they squandered.

 

[Tempy Tiger]

Blue baggers have got too many light skinny kids running around. I’d love to know the collective weight difference of the two teams last week. And on a rainy day that gets compounded.
It looks to me like they’ve just drafted very light, skinny outside players. Basically making the same horror mistakes we did.
They need to find some mature age rookies to help Cripps out in the guts a la Menegola, Tim Kelly, Barlow etc. That will be way more important for them in the short term than another number one pick in the draft who will be 3 years away from doing anything.
Suck s**t to them ha ha!!

 

[stabler]

Did a piece for the mainboard but its far too intelligent for them so here it is for you flogs, just a jog down memory lane of how amazing the Paul Roos regime was at melbourne.

Heres an example of where Carlton has failed in its list management. Its not Boltons fault where the club is at its Silvagni and the list management strategy.
This is the team that Paul Roos took over at the end of 2013, we were pathetic there was no value on the list and it was full of guys with no future in AFL

WE FINISHED 2-20 WITH 54%!!!


FB- Lynden Dunn, Colin Garland,Dean Terlich

HB- Tom McDonald, James Frawley, Mitchell Clisby

C- Jimmy Toumpas, Jack Trengove, Daniel Nicholson

HF- Aaron Davey, Chris Dawes, Sam Blease

FF- Jack Fitzpatrick, Jack Watts, Jeremy Howe

R- Max Gawn, Colin Sylvia, Nathan Jones

Int- David Rodan, Dean Kent, Matt Jones
Shannon Byrnes


This is the side Paul Roos named 3 years later in his final game.

• 
  
• Sam Frost, Tom McDonald, Neville Jetta*
• Jayden Hunt, Oscar Mcdonald, Tom Bugg
• Angus Brayshaw, Bernie Vince, Dom Tyson
• Sam Weiderman, Jack Watts, Clayton Oliver
• Christian Petracca, Jesse Hogan, Jeff Garlett
• Christian Salem, James Harmes, Alex Neal Bullen, Jeff Garlett
  
  Bolded are the players added to list by Roos.

Note that 11 of the 22 played against Carlton, plus we also had Jake Melksham on the list unable to play aswell as Jack Viney injured and Nathan Jones.
*Jetta was told he was to be delisted until Roos came in and put him down back for the first time in his career.
18 players Roos selected in 3 years that have built the core of our side whilst all of them are still on our list apart from Jack Watts, we also went from a 2-20 side and 54% to a 10-12 side and 97.6% in 3 years!!!

IMO Carlton have stuffed their rebuild up and will unfortunately spend another 3-5 years down the bottom unless they can get some senior talent into the side

I'm normally pretty good at remembering the off-broadway, spud farmers that littered our list during the dark neeld days but for the life of me, I had completely forgotten about Mitch Clisby. And I remember Josh Tynan and Rory Taggart.

Mitch Clisby.. well well

 

[Cannon82]

I'm normally pretty good at remembering the off-broadway, spud farmers that littered our list during the dark neeld days but for the life of me, I had completely forgotten about Mitch Clisby. And I remember Josh Tynan and Rory Taggart.

Mitch Clisby.. well well

For some reason I feel Mitch Clisby should come back and get another chance at the top level, but I think its because of some strange mental progression from Mitch Clisby > Mitch Frisbee > Mitch Boomerang. He belongs in a museum.

 

[Deemanding]

Blue baggers have got too many light skinny kids running around. I’d love to know the collective weight difference of the two teams last week. And on a rainy day that gets compounded.
It looks to me like they’ve just drafted very light, skinny outside players. Basically making the same horror mistakes we did.
They need to find some mature age rookies to help Cripps out in the guts a la Menegola, Tim Kelly, Barlow etc. That will be way more important for them in the short term than another number one pick in the draft who will be 3 years away from doing anything.
Suck s**t to them ha ha!!

I think I saw a stat - our average weight was over 3kg per player higher than Carlton.

I remember mentioning the difference in size between Petracca and Fisher in the GDT. Obviously Petracca is probably around 8-10cm taller but there'd be over 20kg difference in size.

 

[Djcjdees]

Cannot wait to be involved with the immersive fan experiences at Marvel Stadium. The game definitely needs more immersive fan experiences.

 

[stEdy]

I'm normally pretty good at remembering the off-broadway, spud farmers that littered our list during the dark neeld days but for the life of me, I had completely forgotten about Mitch Clisby. And I remember Josh Tynan and Rory Taggart.

Mitch Clisby.. well well

This

I've got a razor sharp mind for your average list cloggers (Zomer or Weetra anyone?) - but Mitch Clisby just blew my mind

 

[Bluelegs]

Usually after 100+ point losses coaches get the sack. Bolton got an extension. They do things differently down at the blues.

 

[Ablett2Garland]

Usually after 100+ point losses coaches get the sack. Bolton got an extension. They do things differently down at the blues.

Mark Murphy should follow Gibbs and leave for a contender.

 

[Proper Gander]

Mark Murphy should follow Gibbs and leave for a contender.

Please not us though

 

[ABray10]

Did a piece for the mainboard but its far too intelligent for them so here it is for you flogs, just a jog down memory lane of how amazing the Paul Roos regime was at melbourne.

Heres an example of where Carlton has failed in its list management. Its not Boltons fault where the club is at its Silvagni and the list management strategy.
This is the team that Paul Roos took over at the end of 2013, we were pathetic there was no value on the list and it was full of guys with no future in AFL

WE FINISHED 2-20 WITH 54%!!!


FB- Lynden Dunn, Colin Garland,Dean Terlich

HB- Tom McDonald, James Frawley, Mitchell Clisby

C- Jimmy Toumpas, Jack Trengove, Daniel Nicholson

HF- Aaron Davey, Chris Dawes, Sam Blease

FF- Jack Fitzpatrick, Jack Watts, Jeremy Howe

R- Max Gawn, Colin Sylvia, Nathan Jones

Int- David Rodan, Dean Kent, Matt Jones
Shannon Byrnes


This is the side Paul Roos named 3 years later in his final game.

• 
  
• Sam Frost, Tom McDonald, Neville Jetta*
• Jayden Hunt, Oscar Mcdonald, Tom Bugg
• Angus Brayshaw, Bernie Vince, Dom Tyson
• Sam Weiderman, Jack Watts, Clayton Oliver
• Christian Petracca, Jesse Hogan, Jeff Garlett
• Christian Salem, James Harmes, Alex Neal Bullen, Jeff Garlett
  
  Bolded are the players added to list by Roos.

Note that 11 of the 22 played against Carlton, plus we also had Jake Melksham on the list unable to play aswell as Jack Viney injured and Nathan Jones.
*Jetta was told he was to be delisted until Roos came in and put him down back for the first time in his career.
18 players Roos selected in 3 years that have built the core of our side whilst all of them are still on our list apart from Jack Watts, we also went from a 2-20 side and 54% to a 10-12 side and 97.6% in 3 years!!!

IMO Carlton have stuffed their rebuild up and will unfortunately spend another 3-5 years down the bottom unless they can get some senior talent into the side

Good analysis, but things can turn around quickly. Nail one draft / trade / free agency period and you can change your team significantly in a single year. Beginning to realise the long rebuild is actually a failure, because if it takes that long you probably ****ed it already.

Have to admit, I bought the company line back in 2007-2009 that we needed to cut every player over 25 and bring in stacks of draft picks.

 

[stabler]

This

I've got a razor sharp mind for your average list cloggers (Zomer or Weetra anyone?) - but Mitch Clisby just blew my mind

I'll raise you a Rhys Healey and a Jai Sheahan

 

[stretcharmstrong]

I'll raise you a Rhys Healey and a Jai Sheahan

How’s about a bitta Daniel Hughes

 

[stEdy]

Hughes played a night game against the bulldogs where we nearly won but didnt? Scully had about a thousand touches in the wet?

Bizarre times

 

[Bluelegs]

Hughes played a night game against the bulldogs where we nearly won but didnt? Scully had about a thousand touches in the wet?

Bizarre times

That was the day the umps wore the same kit as us and Akermanis kicked the sealer.

 

[Topkent]

Good analysis, but things can turn around quickly. Nail one draft / trade / free agency period and you can change your team significantly in a single year. Beginning to realise the long rebuild is actually a failure, because if it takes that long you probably ****** it already.

Have to admit, I bought the company line back in 2007-2009 that we needed to cut every player over 25 and bring in stacks of draft picks.

You don't need a group of 40 young blokes to come through together you just need a core. A core of senior blokes

 

[schmuttt]

That was the day the umps wore the same kit as us and Akermanis kicked the sealer.

Was actually Brian Lake going forward who kicked the last two of the game after we lead by 8 points with less than 10 minutes to go.

 

[Bluelegs]

Was actually Brian Lake going forward who kicked the last two of the game after we lead by 8 points with less than 10 minutes to go.

Oh yeah. I remember aker kicked a pretty dodgy one at one stage that was probably touched though

 

[HANDSOLO]

That Game I was back in Australia from Europe for my Mums 60th party

I remember watching the game down in lorne in front of the fire with a bottle of whiskey and being so pumped by that game thinking the future was going to be out of control good. At the Party the next day I met a few of those crazy old Dees supporters - you know the ones who love their port a bit to much, still wear silk cravats and blazers everywhere and have that sort of English accent with a lisp (the Aussie version of the mid Altantic accent)- sort of the Melbourne Club look & feel

They told me I should move back the next year and ride the wave of glory. That young Skully and Trengrove.

EDIT: I just realized I contributed nothing to the conversation apart from describing Sir Hugh - but I want you people to understand me and maybe one day get to being considered a "7/10 bloke"

Oh yeah. I remember aker kicked a pretty dodgy one at one stage that was probably touched though

 

[HANDSOLO]

I'm normally pretty good at remembering the off-broadway, spud farmers that littered our list during the dark neeld days but for the life of me, I had completely forgotten about Mitch Clisby. And I remember Josh Tynan and Rory Taggart.

Mitch Clisby.. well well

James Strauss, Nicholson, who was the dude who kicked 3 against GWS? Evans? such a rich topic

 

[Proper Gander]

James Strauss, Nicholson, who was the dude who kicked 3 against GWS? Evans? such a rich topic

Was it James Strauss who had that horrible leg break? I'm still trying to wipe the recollection of it from my mind

 

[HANDSOLO]

Was it James Strauss who had that horrible leg break? I'm still trying to wipe the recollection of it from my mind

Oh yeah - that must of been him I remember waiting a year for him to come back and he was supposed to be the best kick off half back. Didn’t happen (the transformation of our transition from half back)

 

[Dark Avenger]

Oh yeah - that must of been him I remember waiting a year for him to come back and he was supposed to be the best kick off half back. Didn’t happen (the transformation of our transition from half back)

He might have very well been the greatest kick of all time. It was hard to judge considering he never got the pill.