Opinion Is the AFL becoming an uneven competition?
- Thread starter StCicatriz
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- Feb 21, 2004
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Problem is, every time we play Rchmond. 60%+ of the crowd are Richmond fans, even at our home games. At the G it would be 75%
2000-2015 defined who the power Clubs were going to be. In 2000 we had roughly the same amount of Members as Hawthorn and Geelong. Then they won a whole bunch of flags each. We lost 2 GF's drew 1 and had years of mismanagement and off-field problems. That gap will never be closed now.
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
yes and no. Like Richmond, we have a lot of dormant members. If we hadn’t spent the last 10 years being s**t we would be fine. 10 years without finals is a disaster for momentum and membership but somehow we survive. If we actually turn it around we easily jump over clubs like the Dogs, Dees and North. We will never be a top 4 Membership club but with a bit of momentum we could get close to the Hawks and Cats.
mightymalaka
What we have here is a failure to communicate!
- Banned
- #154
Exactly. We dwarf Dogs, Dees and North and if we had proper success we would surpass Hawks and Cats too....Our supporter base is the
Most dormant in the league for a variety of reasons! Most of them good ones that reflect poorly on the club in the past sadly!
Yet they are not all completely lost to us at all. Our lot may have been pretty quiet and even meek in recent years but even amongst the disenfranchised
Saints fans they are still staunch and like bears hibernating just waiting for the club to come alive again!
It's true we lost heaps of opportunity and momentum when it all came crashing down after the failed Grand finals. Sometimes the average punter
Can only take so much disappointment. We have put our fans through more lows than any other sporting club i can think of, yet we are still here
Waiting for that one day when all our pain gets washed away in what would be the ultimate glory!
Then much like the Tigers who spent the good part of 30 yrs on their kness, watch the masses flock for the Saints to adore them again!
We obviously don't have the successful history of the top 4 melb clubs but if we had a run of success say the Dawks had at any point
We would become the one thing the dwarf got right, a juggernaut of huge porportions!
Everybody loves a good cinderella story and ours is so tragic in it's detail and the quintessential rags to riches story
It's actually made for an epic movie. The one big thing the club has to do though the next time it truly rises is to maximise the story of the
Saints in a fairytale marketing way much like the Tigers did only our story is even more compelling and gripping! This country loves an underdog made good!
I saw for a brief period in the 90's what this club's potential is if they get it right! For a couple of years there we even dwarfed a couple of the big 4!
Yes it would be even harder now due to 20 odd years of lost opportunities on and off the field but we criminally underrate ourselves the scope
Of this clubs fan base and potential prob due to an increased inferiority complex that has pushed us down more and more over the years
And some pretty disgraceful treatment from the league ( some of it deserved ) that has helped perpetuate us sitting where we have for some time now!
Perhaps i'm still the ultimate dreamer but i do believe this club will rise lazarus style to be all it can be one day and perhaps many of our own fans
Will be shocked as to just how big that will look like! Then watch the league fall over itself to please us with the blockbusters and the like!
We have to earn it the hard way though, and considering our mismanagement over the years we prob deserve it!
Still it will make it all the more sweeter!
I believe my fellow Saints fans, that one day we will reach the mountain top! And to shamelessly
Quote the great Martin Luther i've seen the promised land! Sadly the way i'm going, just like the great man i may not get there with ya
But our day will surely come! And the masses will come from everywhere to rejoice! Praise the lord!
- Jan 10, 2011
- 34,367
- 57,683
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
- Other Teams
- Ormond AFC
Exactly. We dwarf Dogs, Dees and North and if we had proper success we would surpass Hawks and Cats too....Our supporter base is the
Most dormant in the league for a variety of reasons! Most of them good ones that reflect poorly on the club in the past sadly!
Yet they are not all completely lost to us at all. Our lot may have been pretty quiet and even meek in recent years but even amongst the disenfranchised
Saints fans they are still staunch and like bears hibernating just waiting for the club to come alive again!
It's true we lost heaps of opportunity and momentum when it all came crashing down after the failed Grand finals. Sometimes the average punter
Can only take so much disappointment. We have put our fans through more lows than any other sporting club i can think of, yet we are still here
Waiting for that one day when all our pain gets washed away in what would be the ultimate glory!
Then much like the Tigers who spent the good part of 30 yrs on their kness, watch the masses flock for the Saints to adore them again!
We obviously don't have the successful history of the top 4 melb clubs but if we had a run of success say the Dawks had at any point
We would become the one thing the dwarf got right, a juggernaut of huge porportions!
Everybody loves a good cinderella story and ours is so tragic in it's detail and the quintessential rags to riches story
It's actually made for an epic movie. The one big thing the club has to do though the next time it truly rises is to maximise the story of the
Saints in a fairytale marketing way much like the Tigers did only our story is even more compelling and gripping! This country loves an underdog made good!
I saw for a brief period in the 90's what this club's potential is if they get it right! For a couple of years there we even dwarfed a couple of the big 4!
Yes it would be even harder now due to 20 odd years of lost opportunities on and off the field but we criminally underrate ourselves the scope
Of this clubs fan base and potential prob due to an increased inferiority complex that has pushed us down more and more over the years
And some pretty disgraceful treatment from the league ( some of it deserved ) that has helped perpetuate us sitting where we have for some time now!
Perhaps i'm still the ultimate dreamer but i do believe this club will rise lazarus style to be all it can be one day and perhaps many of our own fans
Will be shocked as to just how big that will look like! Then watch the league fall over itself to please us with the blockbusters and the like!
We have to earn it the hard way though, and considering our mismanagement over the years we prob deserve it!
Still it will make it all the more sweeter!
I believe my fellow Saints fans, that one day we will reach the mountain top! And to shamelessly
Quote the great Martin Luther i've seen the promised land! Sadly the way i'm going, just like the great man i may not get there with ya
But our day will surely come! And the masses will come from everywhere to rejoice! Praise the lord!
is there just one fact to suggest we would pass Geelong or hawks. I can’t see how on any degree you can say it. Well you can but it’s hard to actually believe. Even dwarfing the other clubs is a bit over the top. I would love what you say to be true but I can’t see it. I’ve been around when we have been good and bad but that good was a long time ago and with today’s generation not into losers we may have lost a huge supporter base.
mightymalaka
What we have here is a failure to communicate!
- Banned
- #156
Of course there are no facts Plugger! It's just the vibe!
When we were up and about we outdrew both Geelong and Hawthorn but credit to their clubs they have been superbly run over the last 15 yrs or so!
We are not just any kind of losers though. We are a uniquely special band of tragics all on our own! And there is a perverse charm that comes with that story!
Even as pathetic as we have been over the last 10 yrs or so we still get respectable numbers whenever there has been a sniff of a renaissance!
You yourself said you had never heard a raw as rabid in a home and away game as when Gardiner took that mark in 09! We were much more the popular
Club over Geel at that stage and they had just come off a flag! Or who could forget the cauldren of noise when Troy Schwarze pulled that boomer out of his arse
In that epic game against a non melb club at a packed telstra dome in 04.....Granted we have lost considerable ground in the ensuing years!
But phoenix like watch the masses come again if and when we can scale those heights again! One thing we cannot do though is continue to wallow in mediocrity
Going nowhere in the sporting landscape in a much more competitive market!
- Jan 10, 2011
- 34,367
- 57,683
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
- Other Teams
- Ormond AFC
You can have a rabid crowd yet still not the support of other clubs. Not sure our numbers have been good lately. Been pretty ordinary but expected because we haven’t shown a lot.
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
We will lose some kids from now but we won't see the results for 10 years until they start buying memberships. I really didn't get engaged in footy until the early 90s when they finally started to look okay. I hope my kids are the same.
We can catch Geelong because they aren't massively ahead of us despite success while we have had a decade of s**t. If we can get 50,000 without finals or even a star we are a resilient membership. I remember in the Lyon era you couldn't get into home games with general admission unless you got there early, that will return if we start to play better. We didn't have bullshit memberships back then to inflate numbers like we do now. I think we could be around 75,000 if we had a solid finals side.
StCicatriz
Brownlow Medallist
- Aug 3, 2016
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- #159
Although the club's debt is set to push towards $20 million by year's end after starting the year owing about $12 million, the businessman and club benefactor declared the Saints to be on the right track towards success.
www.theage.com.au
we need to be more vocal as a supported base for more equalisation measures.
Saints urged to keep being aggressive
This is no time for AFL clubs to be picking fights with each other as Saints' stalwart Gerry Ryan declared St Kilda to be on the right track for success
we need to be more vocal as a supported base for more equalisation measures.
StCicatriz
Brownlow Medallist
- Aug 3, 2016
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- Thread starter
- #160
one thing the AFL should do is buy back all club debt. this does not mean clubs become debt free as the money could be lent from the AFL at 0% interest. that way club's can save $$$ on the interest bill but still have a commitment to the debt.
the AFL should also look at debt reduction strategies with supporters. for example if the saints ran a debt reduction campaign, should they AFL look at subsiding that somewhat. say if the saints can find 1 million from supporters, should the AFL match that or match some of it?
the AFL should also look at debt reduction strategies with supporters. for example if the saints ran a debt reduction campaign, should they AFL look at subsiding that somewhat. say if the saints can find 1 million from supporters, should the AFL match that or match some of it?
Until each side plays eachother once(or twice) the competition can never be even. I don't like the way the same teams get the biggest timeslots each year(Anzac, Queen's Bday, Dreamtime) but I totally understand why the AFL does it. In a perfect world it would be based on merit, but the best the smaller clubs can do right is get a bunch of Friday night games as reward for performance.
Parkysp
Premium Platinum
- Aug 26, 2018
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I'm getting some stats together that will astound people. The time for meek should be gone. Way too passive as a supporter group. Owed way way more than we've received and then copped it for it from Caroline and Jeff as the lead examples.
If there is passion we come out of this pandemic ahead. If it is more meh from our supporters then we are unfortunately going to get what we don't want. I bloody hope that people will see the small individual fight back will be a collective tidal wave.
More to come.
The numbers have left me feeling physically sick. We knew but visuals change thinking...
If there is passion we come out of this pandemic ahead. If it is more meh from our supporters then we are unfortunately going to get what we don't want. I bloody hope that people will see the small individual fight back will be a collective tidal wave.
More to come.
The numbers have left me feeling physically sick. We knew but visuals change thinking...
Saintos The ITK
Premium Platinum
Where’s the Drake?
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
We seemed to have lost a heap of our best posters over the lay-off. We should never have got on to politics, it's like a Christmas dinner with the family with handguns. There are some things you should never speak of in civilised company.
Kegs on Legs has given up on us, lately Mowman has gone quiet and Mikka has disappeared. Hopefully we get a win so they can't stay away.
StCicatriz
Brownlow Medallist
- Aug 3, 2016
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- #165
Have a read. Make no mistake the big clubs are coming for blood. Kennett in his last update said over the next 3 years structural changes would need to occur. Now we get this.
www.hawthornfc.com.au
That said, it does not reduce the need for the AFL Commission and the AFL to be substantially restructured to be reduced in size and cost, in the same way that the club’s expenditure is being significantly reduced.
The rivers of gold that have flowed to the AFL have finished. We must reduce our costs, not only to limit the draw down on the debt facility secured, but to position ourselves for a future unexpected event.
Whether we are an Assisted or Unassisted Club we must all work together with the AFL to secure our future.
I hope that in the not too distant future we can agree on a set of KPIs for all clubs, which in part will ensure an improvement for all clubs, and the AFL’s financial position.
The timeline for these KPIs should be three years with an evaluation taking place in the third year of performance. If clubs and their Boards do not meet the KPIs set, they should be relegated to the VFL.
No longer can non-performance be supported. This is not directed at any club and is only prospective. Emotion alone is not sufficient a reason for non-performance.
The AFL must take a more commercial view to the conduct of our code.
Jeff's letter to members
The official AFL website of the Hawthorn Football Club
That said, it does not reduce the need for the AFL Commission and the AFL to be substantially restructured to be reduced in size and cost, in the same way that the club’s expenditure is being significantly reduced.
The rivers of gold that have flowed to the AFL have finished. We must reduce our costs, not only to limit the draw down on the debt facility secured, but to position ourselves for a future unexpected event.
Whether we are an Assisted or Unassisted Club we must all work together with the AFL to secure our future.
I hope that in the not too distant future we can agree on a set of KPIs for all clubs, which in part will ensure an improvement for all clubs, and the AFL’s financial position.
The timeline for these KPIs should be three years with an evaluation taking place in the third year of performance. If clubs and their Boards do not meet the KPIs set, they should be relegated to the VFL.
No longer can non-performance be supported. This is not directed at any club and is only prospective. Emotion alone is not sufficient a reason for non-performance.
The AFL must take a more commercial view to the conduct of our code.
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
Have a read. Make no mistake the big clubs are coming for blood. Kennett in his last update said over the next 3 years structural changes would need to occur. Now we get this.
Jeff's letter to members
The official AFL website of the Hawthorn Football Club
That said, it does not reduce the need for the AFL Commission and the AFL to be substantially restructured to be reduced in size and cost, in the same way that the club’s expenditure is being significantly reduced.
The rivers of gold that have flowed to the AFL have finished. We must reduce our costs, not only to limit the draw down on the debt facility secured, but to position ourselves for a future unexpected event.
Whether we are an Assisted or Unassisted Club we must all work together with the AFL to secure our future.
I hope that in the not too distant future we can agree on a set of KPIs for all clubs, which in part will ensure an improvement for all clubs, and the AFL’s financial position.
The timeline for these KPIs should be three years with an evaluation taking place in the third year of performance. If clubs and their Boards do not meet the KPIs set, they should be relegated to the VFL.
No longer can non-performance be supported. This is not directed at any club and is only prospective. Emotion alone is not sufficient a reason for non-performance.
The AFL must take a more commercial view to the conduct of our code.
They never remember when they were on their arse. We wouldn't have been struggling so badly for so long if grifters like the Hawks hadn't backstabbed us on a Waverley deal then walked to a sweet MCG deal and got given Waverley for free. It left us to walk cap in hand to the AFL and beg to get sodomised by their Docklands deal, they'd given Essendon a near free reign there so had to make up the rest from gouging us. Just like he was in politics, he believes the people who have been born into money have more rights to everything while tut-tutting at the homeless people for their hopelessness.
George
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We run one of the leanest operations in the league, I'm not sure how we cut costs any further to be honest. Unless it is league mandated. We need to win games of football.Have a read. Make no mistake the big clubs are coming for blood. Kennett in his last update said over the next 3 years structural changes would need to occur. Now we get this.
Jeff's letter to members
The official AFL website of the Hawthorn Football Club
That said, it does not reduce the need for the AFL Commission and the AFL to be substantially restructured to be reduced in size and cost, in the same way that the club’s expenditure is being significantly reduced.
The rivers of gold that have flowed to the AFL have finished. We must reduce our costs, not only to limit the draw down on the debt facility secured, but to position ourselves for a future unexpected event.
Whether we are an Assisted or Unassisted Club we must all work together with the AFL to secure our future.
I hope that in the not too distant future we can agree on a set of KPIs for all clubs, which in part will ensure an improvement for all clubs, and the AFL’s financial position.
The timeline for these KPIs should be three years with an evaluation taking place in the third year of performance. If clubs and their Boards do not meet the KPIs set, they should be relegated to the VFL.
No longer can non-performance be supported. This is not directed at any club and is only prospective. Emotion alone is not sufficient a reason for non-performance.
The AFL must take a more commercial view to the conduct of our code.
StCicatriz
Brownlow Medallist
- Aug 3, 2016
- 28,297
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- Thread starter
- #168
Spot on and what's this KPI bullshit? How does relegating them to the VFL help the comp in any way what so ever.
What kennet is really driving for here is to cut costs. The foxtel deal was not renewed and expires in 2022. So people like kennet and Gordon are positioning for is to look at the smaller clubs before the larger ones. Theyre looking to cannibalise support.
George
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Reimagine Moorabbin
- Aug 17, 2015
- 45,306
- 127,288
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
- Other Teams
- Phi Eagles & Phillies, Liverpool, PAO FC
Kennett's a dickhead, the pie becomes smaller if clubs get relegated, all clubs will lose out including his.
Anyway it won't happen, wouldn't even bother wasting your time on it.
- Jan 10, 2011
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Exactly. Even when it was the vfl. We all know that. Doesn’t stop you winning a flag. Luck or bad luck cost us. Good luck got the wb one. If anyone can fit 18 sides into 22 games and make it even I’m all ears. Anyway it’s never worried me
StCicatriz
Brownlow Medallist
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- #172
Hawthorn FC President Jeff Kennet
Jeff joined the show to discuss the future of the game.
What an absolute flog
He's absolutely thinking of canabilising support. They should have pressed him harder.
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
Hawthorn FC President Jeff Kennet
Jeff joined the show to discuss the future of the game.player.whooshkaa.com
What an absolute flog
He's absolutely thinking of canabilising support. They should have pressed him harder.
It will end up like A league with not enough teams to keep people interested. Kennett is a short sighted moron. Sold all our utilities for * all because which we are paying for now. He was either corrupt or stupid. This stuff would at least suggest stupid.
Saintos The ITK
Premium Platinum
I stayed out of it.
