Opinion Most overrated players from each team?

[Hot Diggity]

its sujective , you can throw whatever superfluous nonsense at the end that you like. Media rank him in the top few players of all time often, I wouldn't have him there, dgaf if you agree

Now you have provided some context with your claim, it now has some merit. Not in the greatest of all time, but simply stating "Historically James Hird" makes you sound clueless.

Next time, back up your claim with context and facts. And then we won't have to have these petty little frissons.

 

[Hot Diggity]

Ollie Wines.

Has he not aged well?

 

[Hot Diggity]

Michael Walters is another overrated player.

Really goes missing far too often when Freo need him the most.

Disagree - top player and has dragged Freo over the line far more than most realise.

 

[Hot Diggity]

Starting to really dislike Jake lever.

On a huge wage

Massive self promoter. Yes according to him and his mum he's a world champion boxer. Toughest bloke in the AFL.

Cool story bro. Cool Mo.

We don't care about Ur boxing. And by the way. Ur sh*t at boxing. Wouldn't even be top 10,000 in the US.

Just get a kick mate.

I'm with you on that. He's a complete tool.

 

[WillHayward]

Adelaide - Rory Sloane
*Trash disposal. The worst captain in the comp.

Brisbane - Eric Hipwood
*Clumsy forward who isn't strong enough, given ample opportunity and rarely makes those chances count.

Carlton - Marc Murphy
*So over the hill, it's a good place to set up a toboggan to have a fun ride sliding down.

Collingwood - Jaiydn Stephenson
*Plays a burst of good footy for a short period of time, goes missing for large portions of the game and especially MIA when the team isn't playing the game on their terms.

Essendon - Michael Hurley
*At this stage of his career, should be the general of the backline, helping develop other defenders and working as a unit. Continuously plays with a one on one mentally, and overall, the team has suffered for it in his time there.

Fremantle - Nat Fyfe
* He is the golden goose. Takes spectacular marks, kicks nice goals, has a TON of disposals, yet... he doesn't and never has made those around him better. Plays an individual game in a team sport. He got the 3 votes against Richmond a few years ago when they lost by 90. Great, if Dimma doesn't care what you do... then by all means get 159 disposals if his team wins by 100 points.

Geelong - Patrick Dangerfield
* Explosive speed, powerful overhead mark, great media spokesmen. However, woeful disposal and has cost them BIG in big games in September. Often relies to heavily on overdoing it, overcooks the footy when he is under the pump. An absolute gun, but not a defining champion of his era the way he is promoted.

Hawthorn - Tom Scully
* Has there ever been a more overrated hack that lacks loyalty and made a bucket of cash along the way? This guy has never been up to it, im surprised he's still on an AFL list. Trash.

Gold Coast - Zac Smith
*Highly rated ruckman, never did anything, probsvly get delisted soon enough.

GWS Giants - Phil Davis
*Feel like he's been injured for 3 years, whats he been doing lately?

Melbourne - Clayton Oliver
*Hack disposal, just handball it to your ruckman to kick it, embarressing.

North Melbourne - Jack Ziebell
* Always been average AF but for some reason adored.

St. Kilda - Seb Ross
* .......

Sydney Swans - Tom Papley
- If half the goals you get are from the free kicks you receive during Junk time losses, lets see how you go when thr result of a match really matters.

West Coast Eagles - Jack Darling
- The knucklehead who missed the easiest goal in grand final history. Always touted as the next big thing and has escaped criticism playing for a successful club with an even contribution. Lets not be fooled, he's promised us the world, but delivered us an atlas.

Port Adelaide - Ollie Wines
* Great Junior, built in the mould of a Nathan Buckley, but he never actually took that next step to become elite and he is now in his 8th season!

Western Bulldogs - Josh Schache
*Has made a career thus far by doing fu** all. Has he ever played even one good game ?

Richmond - Sydney Stack
*Glimpses of great highlights. However, unfit, not developing fast enough and now in and out the team.

You make some good points here.

E.g. Freo always look better when fyfe is either injured, quiet or absent.

 

[hutstar]

its sujective , you can throw whatever superfluous nonsense at the end that you like. Media rank him in the top few players of all time often, I wouldn't have him there, dgaf if you agree

Fair enough, but you're wrong. Absolute jet, and believe me, it hurts to say that.

 

[Richo83]

Hipwood is like a create-a-player in a video game where you set a a bunch of sliders to max (athleticism, height, even his basic skills) but don’t have enough left over for the less sexy things like ‘awareness’. Everything he does looks good, he just doesn’t do it very often.

I don’t think he’s over-rated though - blokes like that often feel underwhelming for a bit, then have a 2-3 year burst where they put it together and dominate. Then often they cop an injury or two and can’t adjust and fade pretty quick (see: Anthony Koutoufides).

Yeah I've watched Hipwood a few times this year and he doesn't impress. Doesn't play in a way that suits his position. He's mobile and has good ground skills, but his football IQ isn't good enough to keep him in games and he lacks qualities KPFs need, like contested ability or toughness. Plays like a 200cm flanker which is weird. Also lacks intensity and doesn't move enough. Doesn't tackle or chase enough even though he's mobile because he lacks physicality. So he's a KPF with poor IQ, intensity or physicality. At the moment IMO he's relying on his physical gifts to get by but eventually you need more than that to develop.

 

[Vassp]

Stack is in the top three most "pure" talented players at Richmond.
Bolton and Dusty being the other two.

 

[PhatBoy]

Yeah I've watched Hipwood a few times this year and he doesn't impress. Doesn't play in a way that suits his position. He's mobile and has good ground skills, but his football IQ isn't good enough to keep him in games and he lacks qualities KPFs need, like contested ability or toughness. Plays like a 200cm flanker which is weird. Also lacks intensity and doesn't move enough. Doesn't tackle or chase enough even though he's mobile because he lacks physicality. So he's a KPF with poor IQ, intensity or physicality. At the moment IMO he's relying on his physical gifts to get by but eventually you need more than that to develop.

Lots of KPP go through that though.
An obvious example from our side is Hawkins. At the same age as Hipwood he had all the raps about being built to be a key forward, strength, athleticism for someone of his build, good hands etc. But his footy IQ was bog average and it was questionable whether CHF or FF was even his spot and we experimented with him in the ruck.
Suddenly within a season he went from 1.5 goals per game to 2.9 and if it weren't for injuries and a couple of suspensions he'd have 8 straight 50+ goal seasons. i still think it will click for Hipwood sooner rather than later.

 

[Sirlemsip]

You make some good points here.

E.g. Freo always look better when fyfe is either injured, quiet or absent.

I think that is the biggest difference between that batch of 'Elite midfielders'.

You have the group that play an 'individual' game, and the group that play the 'team' game.

Players such as Fyfe, Dangerfield and now Cripps look flashy, but they can have great games where they don't necessarily impact on the result.
Others such as Martin, Pendlebury and Bontempelli help drag their teams over the line.

Now i'd never say that any of Fyfe, Dangerfield or Cripps are significantly 'overrated', but i'd take the other three over them if picking a team.

 

[Bald]

JJ for us.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Those are significant margins when you consider Lockett is 3.3 and Nick Riewoldt is 2.1 - but nice try at de-emphasising the relevance of the stats.

As far as hatred - your words. I’m just participating in a thread called ‘name players most over rated’.

You seem to be especially troubled by my opinion - must be a bulldog supporter. Sorry...no umps to bleat to here...

Haven't read every post but are these goal averages or am I missing something?

Because Lockett averaged 4.84 goals per game (not 3.3). That is definitely a huge difference to 2.1 (well over double) and not in the same ball park as the 0.3, 0.4 goal differences you were comparing to.

 

[Richo83]

Lots of KPP go through that though.
An obvious example from our side is Hawkins. At the same age as Hipwood he had all the raps about being built to be a key forward, strength, athleticism for someone of his build, good hands etc. But his footy IQ was bog average and it was questionable whether CHF or FF was even his spot and we experimented with him in the ruck.
Suddenly within a season he went from 1.5 goals per game to 2.9 and if it weren't for injuries and a couple of suspensions he'd have 8 straight 50+ goal seasons. i still think it will click for Hipwood sooner rather than later.

Hawkins always had the physicality though. He showed an ability to be a great contested marking CHF at junior level, and in his fifth year, which is when he still averaged 1.5 goals a game like you said, he averaged over 2 contested marks a game. Hipwood is averaging less than one per game this year, his fifth. Hawkins always had the frame to become a strong power forward. Hipwood is still too skinny and has the body shape of someone like Josh Schache who also struggles with the physical aspects of the game.

I just don't see Hipwood ever being that dominant key forward. To me, in the modern game with the amount of flooding and defenders who rotate back and forward into space, you have to be able to take contested marks. They help your team by giving them a easy target to kick and makes goalkicking easier because you can put them in the goalsquare. Hipwood lacks intensity, partly because his lack of football IQ, but also because he lacks physicality. So he doesn't go for marks Hawkins would go for. He doesn't tackle or try and engage his opponent like other KPFs do. His game is to mark the ball on the lead and then kick a goal. But if that's your only weapon, and you struggle to take pack marks, you're a fairly one dimensional forward. For a 200cm guy he moves well with the ball and knows how to crumb but the lions don't need him to do that. If he does, I stand corrected.

 

[La Dispute]

JJ for us.

Has anyone really rated him though?

Was always a solid pacy half-back with questionable defensive ability. One of those guys who got up to the speed of AFL quickly, but never looked like having a huge ceiling because he lacked so many of the fundamentals. His career peaked when the Bulldogs did - same as Libba, Clay Smith, Boyd etc. Probably didn't deserve the Normie, but wasn't as far off as some suggest.

The player he is now isn't really too much of a surprise.

 

[Bald]

Has anyone really rated him though?

Was always a solid pacy half-back with questionable defensive ability. One of those guys who got up to the speed of AFL quickly, but never looked like having a huge ceiling because he lacked so many of the fundamentals. His career peaked when the Bulldogs did - same as Libba, Clay Smith, Boyd etc. Probably didn't deserve the Normie, but wasn't as far off as some suggest.

The player he is now isn't really too much of a surprise.

I think the best way to judge how a player is rated is on how sought after they are when out of contract, and then the contract they sign.

When he re-signed a couple of years ago there was at least two or three clubs after him, so we re-signed him to a 5 year contract worth around $3M. I think $600K is definitely a middle-tier contract, if you're demanding that sort of contract you'd want to have a better output than only a handful of great games since the contract was signed.

 

[showemhowtorock]

You make some good points here.

E.g. Freo always look better when fyfe is either injured, quiet or absent.

The players stand taller alonside Fyfe, crazy talk you clearly don't watch them

 

[bzparkes]

West Coast Eagles - Jack Darling
- The knucklehead who missed the easiest goal in grand final history. Always touted as the next big thing and has escaped criticism playing for a successful club with an even contribution. Lets not be fooled, he's promised us the world, but delivered us an atlas.

Jack's had some frustrating moments on the big stage, for sure.

The fact that he will likely finish his career 3rd on our all-time goal-kicking list whilst playing second fiddle to Josh Kennedy his entire career says that his contribution to the team is criminally undervalued and, if anything, is probably very underrated for what he brings to the team.

 

[Mr Alldayeveryday]

Adelaide - Rory Sloane
*Trash disposal. The worst captain in the comp.

Brisbane - Eric Hipwood
*Clumsy forward who isn't strong enough, given ample opportunity and rarely makes those chances count.

Carlton - Marc Murphy
*So over the hill, it's a good place to set up a toboggan to have a fun ride sliding down.

Collingwood - Jaiydn Stephenson
*Plays a burst of good footy for a short period of time, goes missing for large portions of the game and especially MIA when the team isn't playing the game on their terms.

Essendon - Michael Hurley
*At this stage of his career, should be the general of the backline, helping develop other defenders and working as a unit. Continuously plays with a one on one mentally, and overall, the team has suffered for it in his time there.

Fremantle - Nat Fyfe
* He is the golden goose. Takes spectacular marks, kicks nice goals, has a TON of disposals, yet... he doesn't and never has made those around him better. Plays an individual game in a team sport. He got the 3 votes against Richmond a few years ago when they lost by 90. Great, if Dimma doesn't care what you do... then by all means get 159 disposals if his team wins by 100 points.

Geelong - Patrick Dangerfield
* Explosive speed, powerful overhead mark, great media spokesmen. However, woeful disposal and has cost them BIG in big games in September. Often relies to heavily on overdoing it, overcooks the footy when he is under the pump. An absolute gun, but not a defining champion of his era the way he is promoted.

Hawthorn - Tom Scully
* Has there ever been a more overrated hack that lacks loyalty and made a bucket of cash along the way? This guy has never been up to it, im surprised he's still on an AFL list. Trash.

Gold Coast - Zac Smith
*Highly rated ruckman, never did anything, probsvly get delisted soon enough.

GWS Giants - Phil Davis
*Feel like he's been injured for 3 years, whats he been doing lately?

Melbourne - Clayton Oliver
*Hack disposal, just handball it to your ruckman to kick it, embarressing.

North Melbourne - Jack Ziebell
* Always been average AF but for some reason adored.

St. Kilda - Seb Ross
* .......

Sydney Swans - Tom Papley
- If half the goals you get are from the free kicks you receive during Junk time losses, lets see how you go when thr result of a match really matters.

West Coast Eagles - Jack Darling
- The knucklehead who missed the easiest goal in grand final history. Always touted as the next big thing and has escaped criticism playing for a successful club with an even contribution. Lets not be fooled, he's promised us the world, but delivered us an atlas.

Port Adelaide - Ollie Wines
* Great Junior, built in the mould of a Nathan Buckley, but he never actually took that next step to become elite and he is now in his 8th season!

Western Bulldogs - Josh Schache
*Has made a career thus far by doing fu** all. Has he ever played even one good game ?

Richmond - Sydney Stack
*Glimpses of great highlights. However, unfit, not developing fast enough and now in and out the team.

You can see what 95% of Crows fans can not about Rory Sloane yet he gets a pass and the Big fella Tex gets all the blame yet look at the midfield led by Sloane.

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

You can see what 95% of Crows fans can not about Rory Sloane yet he gets a pass and the Big fella Tex gets all the blame yet look at the midfield led by Sloane.

Good call.
From what I've seen of Tex, he's a heart on your sleeve personality, and theyre often the easiest target.

If Tex plays well, Adelaide does much better. He's been hampered by injury and confidence issues of late, but in full flight, Tex Walker was one of the best. Hes best judged before his knee injury.

 

[PhatBoy]

Jack's had some frustrating moments on the big stage, for sure.

The fact that he will likely finish his career 3rd on our all-time goal-kicking list whilst playing second fiddle to Josh Kennedy his entire career says that his contribution to the team is criminally undervalued and, if anything, is probably very underrated for what he brings to the team.

probably suffers a bit from how good his best is compared to how good his normal output is.
Certainly not a s**t player but having seen him at his best I think he and Kennedy - clearly the second best forward of his generation IMO ahead of Riewoldt, Hawkins, Cameron to an extent - I can’t help but think they missed a chance to be truly one of the great modern 1-2 punches

 

[Elmer_Judd]

I don't see all that's flash about Dayne Zorko tbh

 

[Coaster2012]

Nic Nat

Alot of your pre season trolling has been invalidated. You probably dont even post here anymore.

 

[Diamond Jim]

Haven't read every post but are these goal averages or am I missing something?

Because Lockett averaged 4.84 goals per game (not 3.3). That is definitely a huge difference to 2.1 (well over double) and not in the same ball park as the 0.3, 0.4 goal differences you were comparing to.

Yes I quoted the wrong average.

No, the 4.8 has little bearing on the argument -

The 6 highest averages are over 4.....and two above 5.

There is then a lowering to mid high 3s - revealing that a differential in averages of .4 or .5 is still a significant difference over the span of a averages.

Richardson is a good example - often cited as one if the highest goal kickers - his avge is 2.8.....thats .6 higher than the Dumber-Hawk.

I reiterate - .4, .5 or .6 is a significant difference when discussing goal averages.....and attacking the significance of those differences is simply white anting because he lost the argument.

 

[WillHayward]

The players stand taller alonside Fyfe, crazy talk you clearly don't watch them

He helps but not when is the solo hero.
I watch freo a lot.
Look at your last two wins.

 

[WillHayward]

I think that is the biggest difference between that batch of 'Elite midfielders'.

You have the group that play an 'individual' game, and the group that play the 'team' game.

Players such as Fyfe, Dangerfield and now Cripps look flashy, but they can have great games where they don't necessarily impact on the result.
Others such as Martin, Pendlebury and Bontempelli help drag their teams over the line.

Now i'd never say that any of Fyfe, Dangerfield or Cripps are significantly 'overrated', but i'd take the other three over them if picking a team.

Bont is not a team mean.
He is all about the Bont.
Drinks his own bathwater. Rinses. Gargles. Reflects. Savours. Re-fills.