Adrian Dodoro: Football’s Biggest Fraud IMO

[dave10]

You know what, sometimes you have to pay overs to get the player you want. Particularly those that still have two years to run on a contract.

But then you’d criticise for doing it!! And that’s my point and in many ways typifies the narrative of this thread.

 

[dave10]

Yeah

no doubt Essendon built up some hatred with what they did with the supplements saga . But it’s funny you talk about not picking from what I’ve seen over the last half of the season is there is a group of bombers supporters that will go into bat for dodoro at every opportunity make every excuse in the book and try to blame every coach assistant or development person or football manager that have been there during dodoros time and then you talk to other supporters who have just had enough see how long he has had and produced nothing

That’s because most Essendon supporters have a much deeper understanding of what’s plagued their clubs performances since 2012 and it ain’t primarily the list management area. It’s not delusional. It’s a fact.

 

[Sir Hugh Percy]

Dodoro is the type of chap who has pestered you for years about buying your mint E-type jag and you're sick of telling him to bugger off, it's not for sale. Then one day you decide that it's time to part with the old girl and the next time Dodoro comes around and hassles you about it your shoulders slump and you say, "Okay, Adrian. But you know this is a rare series 1.5 with all original parts and won the Victorian Jag club concours d'elegance last year. You need to make your offer a good one."

Dodoro says, "I'll give ya 2 grand for it or straight swap for me tinny... I'll throw in the 40 horsepower outboard, 'cause you're a mate."

 

[Juddernaut08]

Dodoro is the type of chap who has pestered you for years about buying your mint E-type jag and you're sick of telling him to bugger off, it's not for sale. Then one day you decide that it's time to part with the old girl and the next time Dodoro comes around and hassles you about it your shoulders slump and you say, "Okay, Adrian. But you know this is a rare series 1.5 with all original parts and won the Victorian Jag club concours d'elegance last year. You need to make your offer a good one."

Dodoro says, "I'll give ya 2 grand for it or straight swap for me tinny... I'll throw in the 40 horsepower outboard, 'cause you're a mate."

perfect

 

[Goat Hird]

Doro messed up with daniher but still got some decent compensation.

With Dunkley, the thinking was good and bad. Good, as we need that type of player. Bad, because being that he is contracted, you were always going to have to pay overs and this club can't afford to be using two 1st rounders on someone like Dunkley who's a fine player but not amongst the elite group. If our list was better, you do it, to bring in that final piece. We need multiple pieces, not to mention a coach and system. This club also needs to undergo a cultural change. By the time you fix all that, Dunkley would probably be thinking of hanging up his boots. A rebuild through the draft is the way to go here so I'm happy we'll be picking high.

 

[HBF]

But then you’d criticise for doing it!! And that’s my point and in many ways typifies the narrative of this thread.

I'll spell it out for you.
From my perspective, Dodoro feels like he has to WIN every trade.
I've heard this many times from people in the media as well.
At the end of the day, his job is to make the list better.
Adding Dunkley would have greatly offset the losses of Saad, McKenna, Daniher & Fantasia.

 

[CarnTheScray]

Essendon got gifted a first rounder for Daniher's departure and still couldn't get the deal done.

 

[dave10]

I'll spell it out for you.
From my perspective, Dodoro feels like he has to WIN every trade.
I've heard this many times from people in the media as well.
At the end of the day, his job is to make the list better.
Adding Dunkley would have greatly offset the losses of Saad, McKenna, Daniher & Fantasia.

The media.... It’s negotiation. His job is to win. That’s what he’s paid to do. He or I couldn’t care less what the media think! He should negotiate hard. This is big bickies. The media creates the narrative and the perceptions. If he’s seen as hard but reasonable then thats

He more often than not gets the deals done. He’s perceptively lost some deals too, Shiel an example of this.

The deal he offered for Dunkley was very reasonable, as endorsed by Liam Pickering. He rightly didn’t offer two top 10 picks and the Bulldogs had every right to not do the deal. Essendon are not in the window again for two years, it has ample time next year and the year after the close its list gaps with trades. There’s no point in paying overs for Dunkley to solve a short term quality deficit. The club have now rightly reset and are looking 2-3 years down the track. It will hopefully patiently and strategically build its list over 2-3 years from the ground up. Giving away its prized picks for Dunkley would be to repeat the mistakes of two years ago re Shiel.

Dodoro was praised for getting the Saad deal done, working at great lengths to help your bloke find a way to get that deal done.

You can only judge him on the results. He gets the majority of deals completed to Essendon’s advantage. That’s what he’s paid for.

 

[dave10]

Essendon got gifted a first rounder for Daniher's departure and still couldn't get the deal done.

Couldn’t get what deal done? Dunkley? He’s not worth two top 10 picks.

 

[CarnTheScray]

Couldn’t get what deal done? Dunkley? He’s not worth two top 10 picks.

Okay. Nobody said he was.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

That’s because most Essendon supporters have a much deeper understanding of what’s plagued their clubs performances since 2012 and it ain’t primarily the list management area. It’s not delusional. It’s a fact.

Yeah but surely the guy has to take some responsibility for the last 15 years results it’s like his made of Teflon every one else at Essendon gets a whack but he gets away with muder

 

[Tasmanian saint]

The media.... It’s negotiation. His job is to win. That’s what he’s paid to do. He or I couldn’t care less what the media think! He should negotiate hard. This is big bickies. The media creates the narrative and the perceptions. If he’s seen as hard but reasonable then thats

He more often than not gets the deals done. He’s perceptively lost some deals too, Shiel an example of this.

The deal he offered for Dunkley was very reasonable, as endorsed by Liam Pickering. He rightly didn’t offer two top 10 picks and the Bulldogs had every right to not do the deal. Essendon are not in the window again for two years, it has ample time next year and the year after the close its list gaps with trades. There’s no point in paying overs for Dunkley to solve a short term quality deficit. The club have now rightly reset and are looking 2-3 years down the track. It will hopefully patiently and strategically build its list over 2-3 years from the ground up. Giving away its prized picks for Dunkley would be to repeat the mistakes of two years ago re Shiel.

Dodoro was praised for getting the Saad deal done, working at great lengths to help your bloke find a way to get that deal done.

You can only judge him on the results. He gets the majority of deals completed to Essendon’s advantage. That’s what he’s paid for.

His results would up there with the worst in the competition over the last decade

 

[dave10]

Yeah but surely the guy has to take some responsibility for the last 15 years results it’s like his made of Teflon every one else at Essendon gets a whack but he gets away with muder

It’s not as simple as that. I believe since about 2010 he’s done a pretty good job. There’s a reason why he’s still there.

He built a list post end of Sheedy era that was developing and culminated in a narrow finals exit in 2014 as the suppliments saga erupted two years prior and the club consequently lost draft picks and players in the fallout.

It lost 2 years draft picks (1st & 2nd rounds in both 2013/4) years).
That’s 4 in total. It (he) therefore could trade (or draft) to build further and realise the ultimate over this rebuild period 2009-14. At the same time Ryder, Monfries and Crameri all left. So that was the end of the list build. He had one arm behind his back for 2 years! Think about that.. Is that Adrians fault? Of course not.

Then he built another list from 2015-9. This coincided with the fallout of the supplements saga and the club was hardly stable and functioning well. It lost 12 players for 12 months in 2016 and had to reintegrate them into a new squad in 2017. Many players hadn’t played together, and the club had to try and pull it together quickly and get the necessary chemistry and players gelling quickly. It also spent two years trying to build a new game plan, managing a dysfunctional injury management and PE dept. The list he put together over this period would comprise 7 All Australians. That’s a decent list when many thought Essendon would be at the bottom of the ladder for 10 years after 2016. Adrian quickly rebuild a strong list, managed to bring in high end talent and had to think outside the square to find taken given lost draft picks (eg: McKenna / Draper)

On leaving last week, Fantasia summed it up well saying it best when he said the “players didn’t gel”. The whole club didn’t gel and has been largely dysfunctional for 10 years.

That’s the environment Adrian has had to operate in over that time.

I understand without a deep understanding of what’s gone on at Essendon the last 10 years why it’s easy to say there’s been no success for 15 years so sack Dodoro. It simply isn’t as simple as that. Whilst Dodoro has his flaws, and his challenges in piecing together the ultimate balances must, under all the circumstances of what he’s had to operate in the last 10 years, he’s done a pretty good job.

 

[HBF]

The media.... It’s negotiation. His job is to win. That’s what he’s paid to do. He or I couldn’t care less what the media think! He should negotiate hard. This is big bickies. The media creates the narrative and the perceptions. If he’s seen as hard but reasonable then thats

He more often than not gets the deals done. He’s perceptively lost some deals too, Shiel an example of this.

The deal he offered for Dunkley was very reasonable, as endorsed by Liam Pickering. He rightly didn’t offer two top 10 picks and the Bulldogs had every right to not do the deal. Essendon are not in the window again for two years, it has ample time next year and the year after the close its list gaps with trades. There’s no point in paying overs for Dunkley to solve a short term quality deficit. The club have now rightly reset and are looking 2-3 years down the track. It will hopefully patiently and strategically build its list over 2-3 years from the ground up. Giving away its prized picks for Dunkley would be to repeat the mistakes of two years ago re Shiel.

Dodoro was praised for getting the Saad deal done, working at great lengths to help your bloke find a way to get that deal done.

You can only judge him on the results. He gets the majority of deals completed to Essendon’s advantage. That’s what he’s paid for.

Actually, his job is to make the list better.
He cocked up the Daniher deal last year, and he missed out on an extra first round pick because of it.
And with Dunkley, he made a 17/18 year old a priority who has most likely missed the best part of 18 months playing footy because he couldn't strike a deal for Dunkley, after the club did alot of work to convince him to play at the club.

Take it from a Carlton supporter who has seen so many top 10 picks come through the club that is guarantee's nothing.

 

[rado]

It’s not as simple as that. I believe since about 2010 he’s done a pretty good job. There’s a reason why he’s still there.

He built a list post end of Sheedy era that was developing and culminated in a narrow finals exit in 2014 as the suppliments saga erupted two years prior and the club consequently lost draft picks and players in the fallout.

It lost 2 years draft picks (1st & 2nd rounds in both 2013/4) years).
That’s 4 in total. It (he) therefore could trade (or draft) to build further and realise the ultimate over this rebuild period 2009-14. At the same time Ryder, Monfries and Crameri all left. So that was the end of the list build. He had one arm behind his back for 2 years! Think about that.. Is that Adrians fault? Of course not.

Then he built another list from 2015-9. This coincided with the fallout of the supplements saga and the club was hardly stable and functioning well. It lost 12 players for 12 months in 2016 and had to reintegrate them into a new squad in 2017. Many players hadn’t played together, and the club had to try and pull it together quickly and get the necessary chemistry and players gelling quickly. It also spent two years trying to build a new game plan, managing a dysfunctional injury management and PE dept. The list he put together over this period would comprise 7 All Australians. That’s a decent list when many thought Essendon would be at the bottom of the ladder for 10 years after 2016. Adrian quickly rebuild a strong list, managed to bring in high end talent and had to think outside the square to find taken given lost draft picks (eg: McKenna / Draper)

On leaving last week, Fantasia summed it up well saying it best when he said the “players didn’t gel”. The whole club didn’t gel and has been largely dysfunctional for 10 years.

That’s the environment Adrian has had to operate in over that time.

I understand without a deep understanding of what’s gone on at Essendon the last 10 years why it’s easy to say there’s been no success for 15 years so sack Dodoro. It simply isn’t as simple as that. Whilst Dodoro has his flaws, and his challenges in piecing together the ultimate balances must, under all the circumstances of what he’s had to operate in the last 10 years, he’s done a pretty good job.

Many of the reasons you’ve highlighted have clearly contributed to the bombers lack of success.

However, if the bombers have an early R1 selection, gain another 2 via compensation and trade ...... was the strategy really to trade any? why even begin the discussions with Dunkley. Not forgetting, the bombers were told by the dogs early that Dunkley was not up for trade. It’s clear a player highly rated with 2 years contract remaining was not going to be handed over and the dogs made this known from day one, unlike Treloar who the pies wanted out!!

In summary, if the bombers were not going to be really committed and serious to frump up acceptable picks, why begin the discussion. It’s done the player no good, clearly pissed off the bulldogs and will cast doubt in the minds of any future players to commit to the bombers.

 

[dave10]

Actually, his job is to make the list better.
He cocked up the Daniher deal last year, and he missed out on an extra first round pick because of it.
And with Dunkley, he made a 17/18 year old a priority who has most likely missed the best part of 18 months playing footy because he couldn't strike a deal for Dunkley, after the club did alot of work to convince him to play at the club.

Take it from a Carlton supporter who has seen so many top 10 picks come through the club that is guarantee's nothing.

The Daniher decision wasn’t his. The Club made it clear that it was to retain him.

 

[dave10]

Many of the reasons you’ve highlighted have clearly contributed to the bombers lack of success.

However, if the bombers have an early R1 selection, gain another 2 via compensation and trade ...... was the strategy really to trade any? why even begin the discussions with Dunkley. Not forgetting, the bombers were told by the dogs early that Dunkley was not up for trade. It’s clear a player highly rated with 2 years contract remaining was not going to be handed over and the dogs made this known from day one, unlike Treloar who the pies wanted out!!

In summary, if the bombers were not going to be really committed and serious to frump up acceptable picks, why begin the discussion. It’s done the player no good, clearly pissed off the bulldogs and will cast doubt in the minds of any future players to commit to the bombers.

Time will tell if it was The right decision. Who knows, he may get Dunkley next year.

 

[rado]

Time will tell if it was The right decision. Who knows, he may get Dunkley next year.

I highly doubt it ...... like Sydney didn’t satisfy the bombers for Daniher ..... he went straight to the lions and by-passed Sydney because they couldn’t get the deal done.

 

[owen87]

I highly doubt it ...... like Sydney didn’t satisfy the bombers for Daniher ..... he went straight to the lions and by-passed Sydney because they couldn’t get the deal done.

Did he bypass Sydney for that reason though? Brisbane were conveniently Top-4 with a well regarded medical team, and he’d spent extended time in Queensland for probably the first time in his life.

Meanwhile Sydney were bottom 4 and have struggled to keep Reid and Franklin on the park.

 

[Lampers]

I’m sure it’s been said before in this thread, but I’d express it this way.

The buzz word for commentators about game style is “brand” which I find annoying, but I think what they mean is having a discernible way to play. While it may not work all the time, at least there’s consistency and you can see what they are trying to do. It gives confidence to players, the club, supporters etc.

I unsurprisingly spend the most time thinking about Melbourne’s when it comes to list management. I can pretty clearly see the link between game plan and style of player selected with focus on inside players, and then more recently it’s switched to a “plug the obvious list holes” focus as there were too many contested, but slow and low skilled players on the list.

Collingwood for all the flack they copped at least I could see they were solving errors which they should have avoided in the first place, but it was clear why they did what they did this trade period.

North clearly rebuilding by culling NQR experienced players and going all in at the draft.

GWS a while back it was to strategically trade out select of their top picks they were gifted at their birth (like Treloar, Shiel, Adams etc.) to both help manage salary cap and spread out their high end talent age profile - while trying to plug needs gaps with almost cooked veterans on the cheap who may only have a year or two left.

The difficult thing to work out with Essendon is what they are trying to achieve. It seems to be to try and get the biggest fish that’s available, irrespective of whether that’s a need for the list. On top of that it’s then to play chicken to win every deal whether it’s a player out or coming in, which then frustrates their trading partners and likely harms Essendon’s ability to get win-win deals.
I might be wrong as I don’t know the Essendon list that well and it’s yet to be seen who they draft, but they look to need midfield grunt and replacement key backs (Hurley and Hooker going) and forwards (Daniher gone).

They correctly identify a hard to get Dunkley as a type they could benefit from, but try to “win” the game of chicken when Dunkley has two more years on contract and it falls over.

They have Daniher and Fantasia that everyone and their dog knows wants out after last year, and a decision (whether his or above him) to retain has meant buggerall onfield output from them in 2020, plus lesser returns than what they likely would’ve got if they’d moved them on at end of 2019. If Daniher and Fantasia starred in 2020 then it may have been a brilliant move, but they didn’t.

Essendon have some nice players and Dodoro takes some degree of credit for bringing them in, but he is the face of what looks like a self defeating approach. A list of nice individual players isn’t what list management is about, it’s about building list of balanced players that you can afford to pay and keep to support the coach’s game plan - and then picking the time to go hard and load up for a short term tilt at a premiership.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

The Daniher decision wasn’t his. The Club made it clear that it was to retain him.

If that’s really the case then that’s extremely worrisome it would mean there are a number of people at your club incompetent at there jobs

 

[Tasmanian saint]

I’m sure it’s been said before in this thread, but I’d express it this way.

The buzz word for commentators about game style is “brand” which I find annoying, but I think what they mean is having a discernible way to play. While it may not work all the time, at least there’s consistency and you can see what they are trying to do. It gives confidence to players, the club, supporters etc.

I unsurprisingly spend the most time thinking about Melbourne’s when it comes to list management. I can pretty clearly see the link between game plan and style of player selected with focus on inside players, and then more recently it’s switched to a “plug the obvious list holes” focus as there were too many contested, but slow and low skilled players on the list.

Collingwood for all the flack they copped at least I could see they were solving errors which they should have avoided in the first place, but it was clear why they did what they did this trade period.

North clearly rebuilding by culling NQR experienced players and going all in at the draft.

GWS a while back it was to strategically trade out select of their top picks they were gifted at their birth (like Treloar, Shiel, Adams etc.) to both help manage salary cap and spread out their high end talent age profile - while trying to plug needs gaps with almost cooked veterans on the cheap who may only have a year or two left.

The difficult thing to work out with Essendon is what they are trying to achieve. It seems to be to try and get the biggest fish that’s available, irrespective of whether that’s a need for the list. On top of that it’s then to play chicken to win every deal whether it’s a player out or coming in, which then frustrates their trading partners and likely harms Essendon’s ability to get win-win deals.
I might be wrong as I don’t know the Essendon list that well and it’s yet to be seen who they draft, but they look to need midfield grunt and replacement key backs (Hurley and Hooker going) and forwards (Daniher gone).

They correctly identify a hard to get Dunkley as a type they could benefit from, but try to “win” the game of chicken when Dunkley has two more years on contract and it falls over.

They have Daniher and Fantasia that everyone and their dog knows wants out after last year, and a decision (whether his or above him) to retain has meant buggerall onfield output from them in 2020, plus lesser returns than what they likely would’ve got if they’d moved them on at end of 2019. If Daniher and Fantasia starred in 2020 then it may have been a brilliant move, but they didn’t.

Essendon have some nice players and Dodoro takes some degree of credit for bringing them in, but he is the face of what looks like a self defeating approach. A list of nice individual players isn’t what list management is about, it’s about building list of balanced players that you can afford to pay and keep to support the coach’s game plan - and then picking the time to go hard and load up for a short term tilt at a premiership.

That’s dodoros big weakness the players he brings aren’t terrible there

It’s not as simple as that. I believe since about 2010 he’s done a pretty good job. There’s a reason why he’s still there.

He built a list post end of Sheedy era that was developing and culminated in a narrow finals exit in 2014 as the suppliments saga erupted two years prior and the club consequently lost draft picks and players in the fallout.

It lost 2 years draft picks (1st & 2nd rounds in both 2013/4) years).
That’s 4 in total. It (he) therefore could trade (or draft) to build further and realise the ultimate over this rebuild period 2009-14. At the same time Ryder, Monfries and Crameri all left. So that was the end of the list build. He had one arm behind his back for 2 years! Think about that.. Is that Adrians fault? Of course not.

Then he built another list from 2015-9. This coincided with the fallout of the supplements saga and the club was hardly stable and functioning well. It lost 12 players for 12 months in 2016 and had to reintegrate them into a new squad in 2017. Many players hadn’t played together, and the club had to try and pull it together quickly and get the necessary chemistry and players gelling quickly. It also spent two years trying to build a new game plan, managing a dysfunctional injury management and PE dept. The list he put together over this period would comprise 7 All Australians. That’s a decent list when many thought Essendon would be at the bottom of the ladder for 10 years after 2016. Adrian quickly rebuild a strong list, managed to bring in high end talent and had to think outside the square to find taken given lost draft picks (eg: McKenna / Draper)

On leaving last week, Fantasia summed it up well saying it best when he said the “players didn’t gel”. The whole club didn’t gel and has been largely dysfunctional for 10 years.

That’s the environment Adrian has had to operate in over that time.

I understand without a deep understanding of what’s gone on at Essendon the last 10 years why it’s easy to say there’s been no success for 15 years so sack Dodoro. It simply isn’t as simple as that. Whilst Dodoro has his flaws, and his challenges in piecing together the ultimate balances must, under all the circumstances of what he’s had to operate in the last 10 years, he’s done a pretty good job.

no offence but that just sounds like a whole lot of excuses yes he has had some bad luck but so have most clubs at some point. The fact is his results just don’t stack up!

 

[Tasmanian saint]

I’m sure it’s been said before in this thread, but I’d express it this way.

The buzz word for commentators about game style is “brand” which I find annoying, but I think what they mean is having a discernible way to play. While it may not work all the time, at least there’s consistency and you can see what they are trying to do. It gives confidence to players, the club, supporters etc.

I unsurprisingly spend the most time thinking about Melbourne’s when it comes to list management. I can pretty clearly see the link between game plan and style of player selected with focus on inside players, and then more recently it’s switched to a “plug the obvious list holes” focus as there were too many contested, but slow and low skilled players on the list.

Collingwood for all the flack they copped at least I could see they were solving errors which they should have avoided in the first place, but it was clear why they did what they did this trade period.

North clearly rebuilding by culling NQR experienced players and going all in at the draft.

GWS a while back it was to strategically trade out select of their top picks they were gifted at their birth (like Treloar, Shiel, Adams etc.) to both help manage salary cap and spread out their high end talent age profile - while trying to plug needs gaps with almost cooked veterans on the cheap who may only have a year or two left.

The difficult thing to work out with Essendon is what they are trying to achieve. It seems to be to try and get the biggest fish that’s available, irrespective of whether that’s a need for the list. On top of that it’s then to play chicken to win every deal whether it’s a player out or coming in, which then frustrates their trading partners and likely harms Essendon’s ability to get win-win deals.
I might be wrong as I don’t know the Essendon list that well and it’s yet to be seen who they draft, but they look to need midfield grunt and replacement key backs (Hurley and Hooker going) and forwards (Daniher gone).

They correctly identify a hard to get Dunkley as a type they could benefit from, but try to “win” the game of chicken when Dunkley has two more years on contract and it falls over.

They have Daniher and Fantasia that everyone and their dog knows wants out after last year, and a decision (whether his or above him) to retain has meant buggerall onfield output from them in 2020, plus lesser returns than what they likely would’ve got if they’d moved them on at end of 2019. If Daniher and Fantasia starred in 2020 then it may have been a brilliant move, but they didn’t.

Essendon have some nice players and Dodoro takes some degree of credit for bringing them in, but he is the face of what looks like a self defeating approach. A list of nice individual players isn’t what list management is about, it’s about building list of balanced players that you can afford to pay and keep to support the coach’s game plan - and then picking the time to go hard and load up for a short term tilt at a premiership.

Spot on with that assessment that’s dodoros main problem it’s not the quality of players he brings in there’s all reasonable players it’s the type . It’s like he doesn’t know how many of each type of player and position he needs on the list and starting 22 to be successful. it’s not hard to see why when you look a bit closer all the other list managers around the comp come from being a coach or former player or longtime club administrator they know the inner workings of a club dodoro comes from a purely business background he just doesn’t have the experience

 

[owen87]

Spot on with that assessment that’s dodoros main problem it’s not the quality of players he brings in there’s all reasonable players it’s the type . It’s like he doesn’t know how many of each type of player and position he needs on the list and starting 22 to be successful. it’s not hard to see why when you look a bit closer all the other list managers around the comp come from being a coach or former player or longtime club administrator they know the inner workings of a club dodoro comes from a purely business background he just doesn’t have the experience

There's nothing inherently about having played AFL that makes one a better list manager, you do realise that right?

 

[Tasmanian saint]

There's nothing inherently about having played AFL that makes one a better list manager, you do realise that right?

It’s definitely an advantage though to have been involved in the inner workings of a club and know what you need to be successful that’s experience dodoro never had previous to his time at Essendon and it shows! Would you go and hire a football player to run your business if they had no experience in that field over someone with business experience? it’s especially what Essendon are doing with dodoro ?