atg aussie test team

[Pippen94]

Hayden over Morris. Border as left hander over Harvey as side has too many dashers. Don't think Lyon is among top 5 Aussie bowlers of all time but has case as is good fit balancing out attack - rest pick themselves tho Lillee hard done;

Trumper
Hayden
Bradman
G Chappell
Border
Miller
Gilchrist
Davison
Warne
Lyon
McGrath

A team
Ponsford
Morris
Ponting
Smith
Harvey
S Waugh
Healy
Grimmett
Lillee
Thomson
O'Reilly

 

[eth-dog]

Simpson
Lawry
Bradman
Chappell
Border (c)
S Waugh
Gilchrist (+)
Davidson
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

Langer
Hayden
Ponting (c)
Smith
Clarke
Miller
Healy (+)
Benaud
Lee
Thomson
McKenzie

 

[Carbine Chaos]

An all time Test XI for Australia with 2 spinners in it doesn't feel like it really reflects us as a cricketing nation tbh.

 

[eth-dog]

An all time Test XI for Australia with 2 spinners in it doesn't feel like it really reflects us as a cricketing nation tbh.

Agreed. Australia never really played 2 spinners apart from in the subcontinent and sometimes the SCG

 

[eth-dog]

And a "rest of the world" XI to play them:

Hobbs (c)
Sutcliffe
Sangakkara
Kallis
Tendulkar
Sobers
Ames (+)
I Khan
Marshall
Kumble
Murali

 

[Pippen94]

An all time Test XI for Australia with 2 spinners in it doesn't feel like it really reflects us as a cricketing nation tbh.

All time team for all conditions & Australia plays two spinner almost every test in Asia.
Besides, wasn't till 1970's that attack has been dominated by 3 seamer one spinner combination - test cricket has existed a long time & gone through many trends

 

[eddiesmith]

Nathan Lyon as Australia’s second best ever spinner? Lol

 

[t_94]

1. Morris
2. Hayden
3. Bradman (c)
4. Ponting
5. G.Chappell
6. Miller
7. Gilchrist (+)
8. Warne
9. Lillee
10. O’Reilly
11. McGrath

 

[Pippen94]

Nathan Lyon as Australia’s second best ever spinner? Lol

Vs India;
Warne 43 @ 47
Lyon 85 @ 32

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Vs India;
Warne 43 @ 47
Lyon 85 @ 32

Still not near an XI. Grimmett would be the second one surely.

 

[corbies]

Simpson
Lawry
Bradman
Chappell
Border (c)
S Waugh
Gilchrist (+)
Davidson
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

Langer
Hayden
Ponting (c)
Smith
Clarke
Miller
Healy (+)
Benaud
Lee
Thomson
McKenzie

Can I ask why Lee?

 

[eth-dog]

Can I ask why Lee?

Because Cummins hasn't done enough to pass him for me yet and I think he was a better bowler than Mitchell Johnson. I was 50/50 on him or McDermott though

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Because Cummins hasn't done enough to pass him for me yet and I think he was a better bowler than Mitchell Johnson. I was 50/50 on him or McDermott though

I'd go Gillespie but once you get to that 6th quick it's a lottery. Lee isn't a bad shout.

 

[corbies]

Because Cummins hasn't done enough to pass him for me yet and I think he was a better bowler than Mitchell Johnson. I was 50/50 on him or McDermott though

Fair enough I'd just never even considered him in these discussions. I couldn't have him in front of Johnson (better average, better economy rate, better strike rate) before even taking into account someone like Ray Lindwall.

There's no right answers in these though so all good.

 

[eth-dog]

Fair enough I'd just never even considered him in these discussions. I couldn't have him in front of Johnson (better average, better economy rate, better strike rate) before even taking into account someone like Ray Lindwall.

There's no right answers in these though so all good.

I somehow forgot about Lindwall so yes, have him instead.

 

[PhatBoy]

Vs India;
Warne 43 @ 47
Lyon 85 @ 32

Aside from Kohli (who admittedly Lyon bowls well to) do you really think that Sharma, Vijay, Rahane, Dhawan, Pant, Rahul, Pujara, Agarwal etc and even the Indian tail, match Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly, Sidhu, Azharuddin, Sehwag, Shastri - hell even Nayan Mongia was a very good player of spin, and India's tail had the likes of Kumble and Harbhajan and Zaheer Khan who were all very capable.

The trope that India just automatically has a whole bunch of players who are exceptional at playing spin these days is not entirely accurate.

 

[Pippen94]

Still not near an XI. Grimmett would be the second one surely.

More balanced attack with finger spinner - Lyon is Australia's best

 

[Pippen94]

Aside from Kohli (who admittedly Lyon bowls well to) do you really think that Sharma, Vijay, Rahane, Dhawan, Pant, Rahul, Pujara, Agarwal etc and even the Indian tail, match Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly, Sidhu, Azharuddin, Sehwag, Shastri - hell even Nayan Mongia was a very good player of spin, and India's tail had the likes of Kumble and Harbhajan and Zaheer Khan who were all very capable.

The trope that India just automatically has a whole bunch of players who are exceptional at playing spin these days is not entirely accurate.

Current group looks pretty good tbh.
Lyon better bowler in Indian conditions. Warne slower through air seemed to get slower spin off pitch over there & easy for batsmen to pick off.

 

[Pippen94]

President's XI
Simpson
Lawry
Hill
Clarke
Walters
Noble
J Gregory
Benaud
Oldfield
Lindwall
Spofforth

 

[DaRick]

Current group looks pretty good tbh.
Lyon better bowler in Indian conditions. Warne slower through air seemed to get slower spin off pitch over there & easy for batsmen to pick off.

The difficulty with assessing Warne against India is that he was rarely anywhere near his peak when he played against them. In 1992 he was a tyro, in 1998 and 2001 he wasn't fully fit (shoulder/finger problems), and in 1999/00 he was going through a (relative) career slump. In the 2004 series he performed reasonably well, but even then he missed out playing on that nightmare pitch in Mumbai.

 

[PhatBoy]

The difficulty with assessing Warne against India is that he was rarely anywhere near his peak when he played against them. In 1992 he was a tyro, in 1998 and 2001 he wasn't fully fit (shoulder/finger problems), and in 1999/00 he was going through a (relative) career slump. In the 2004 series he performed reasonably well, but even then he missed out playing on that nightmare pitch in Mumbai.

Regardless, he came up against some of the most gifted players of spin bowling the game has ever seen..

Arguably the worst batsman in that group I named earlier was Navjot Sidhu and he absolutely brutalised some spinners in the 90s.

 

[DaRick]

Regardless, he came up against some of the most gifted players of spin bowling the game has ever seen..

Arguably the worst batsman in that group I named earlier was Navjot Sidhu and he absolutely brutalised some spinners in the 90s.

I broadly agree, but Warne showed that he could at least hold his own against them when he was somewhere near his peak (2004). He also fared relatively well against Dravid, strangely enough.

Sidhu was a far better player of spin than pace, FWIW.

 

[PhatBoy]

I broadly agree, but Warne showed that he could at least hold his own against them when he was somewhere near his peak (2004). He also fared relatively well against Dravid, strangely enough.

Sidhu was a far better player of spin than pace, FWIW.

Dravid was possibly the weakest (still a good player of spin, mind you) of the Fab Four + Sehwag against spin, but yeah I remember his first trip to Australia in particular I think Warne sorted him out a couple of times.

I don't like Warney by any means but I don't subscribe to any theory that his aura is diminished by how he went against India. There is no shame in having a worse record against their line-up from that era than you do against other sides.

 

[Pykie]

An all time Test XI for Australia with 2 spinners in it doesn't feel like it really reflects us as a cricketing nation tbh.

It might not.

But pretty much every Australian side you have watched has never had a top 6 bat in it that also averages 22 with the ball and can open the bowling.

With Miller and Gilchrist in the same side, I think you would play 2 spinners. Lyon for variety makes sense, but it makes me uncomfortable thinking about him in an Australian ATG side.

Grimmett got 1,400 FC wickets and 127 x 5'fers @ 22.
O'Reilly got 774 FC wickets @ 16.

He and Warne would be an incredible combo.

You could play Lyon, Grimmett, O'Reilly and Warne in a hypothetical subcontinent side. Maybe substituting one for Benaud as a bowling all-rounder.

 

[Pippen94]

It might not.

But pretty much every Australian side you have watched has never had a top 6 bat in it that also averages 22 with the ball and can open the bowling.

With Miller and Gilchrist in the same side, I think you would play 2 spinners. Lyon for variety makes sense, but it makes me uncomfortable thinking about him in an Australian ATG side.

Grimmett got 1,400 FC wickets and 127 x 5'fers @ 22.
O'Reilly got 774 FC wickets @ 16.

He and Warne would be an incredible combo.

You could play Lyon, Grimmett, O'Reilly and Warne in a hypothetical subcontinent side. Maybe substituting one for Benaud as a bowling all-rounder.

Warne & O'Reilly makes sense as tiger was a different type of bowler; medium pace, pitch outside off, spun wrong'un... But I like symmetry of Lillee - Thomson paired with Grimmett & O'Reilly in second xi.
If Lyon takes over 500 test wickets which he has good chance to do, he will be in conversation for long time to come