Covid 19 (OPEN DISCUSSION)

[Godfather32]

Or maybe the vax ain't that great despite the delussions of the pro cultists.

 

[EagleEgo]

Or maybe the vax ain't that great despite the delussions of the pro cultists.

May be we are talking about 3600 death instead of 36 if we dont have the vaccines??
While vaccines are effective, they do have limitation. So far they are the best we can get for protection.
Other protection like wearing a mask, hand sanitiser, hand washing etc etc will improve our chance of not getting infected.

 

[Ochre]

33 out is 36 NSW deaths yesterday were double vaxxed.

Wow

Works out to just under 92%, vax rate of 40-90 year olds in NSW is much higher than that.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Cases divided by deaths is kind of an illogical metric to use though, isn't it?
I mean in the early days of Covid in Australia you had 400 people getting it and zero dying, so by your formula that was 0.0% back then even with no vaccines.

An obscure pro-tip about Covid that I will share with everyone is that people don't tend to die the same day they get infected.

Just to further mess up the equation I don't think we have a good handle on how many cases there really were today. There's no way it was < 100k.

Well let's just take total cases vs deaths in Australia since the start of the pandemic .

It comes to under 0.15% death rate

Pretty much all covid deaths are reported but as you said covid cases are not so their will be an even smaller death rate

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

So 1.1 million people have Covid currently?

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Alpha existed when we didn't have vaccines (or were only starting to roll out).

It is not difficult to imagine a ~1% rate if omicron was the first variant of COVID back in 2020.

The key takeaway - as always - is to get f***ing vaccinated to greatly increase your chances.

That's entirely not the point I was making to the other poster you seem to be taking my post on face value without using the context of what I was replying to.

 

[amazingjoshy]

While I agree with you, I can also still understand the trepidation.
Closed borders have done a lot of things, both positive and negative. But one of the positives is keeping everyone alive.
Opening the border is basically saying ok, as of this moment I'm going to start letting people die. Doing so well for so long has to make that switch less easy to flick.
And if I'm in the category of people most at risk of being hit hard by Covid then at this point I too might be hoping for a change of plan. I'm guessing quite a bit of that noise might be coming from antivaxxers who are now seeing that Omicron is maybe not entirely the walk in the park they were counting on.

I understand the trepidation also, but if not now then when?

Why is WA holding out on reopening with 88% vaccinated and Omicron already spreading?

An epidemiologist said the west would have already reached its “peak immunity” due to a vaccine’s efficacy waning over time, with opening now rather than in three weeks time making “little difference”.

www.smh.com.au

 

[FKASC]

Waiting til winter to open up would be problematic due to the flu season coinciding with it. Unfortunately I totally empathise with the health care workers’ trepidation - it must be terrifying knowing what you’re about to go through, but unless waiting means you are better prepared, there’s probably no better time.

Waiting until a certain % of boosters would make sense, as it is supposed to make a big difference in transmission of omicron (two shots helps prevent serious illness but unfortunately not transmission of omicron). But I reckon if you delay opening people will just delay their booster

 

[Forward Press]

I'm fine with February 5.

• It balances the waning immunity of those who completed their double shots towards the end of last year when vaccine mandates were introduced for work
• We have a window for boosters - the take up is already at 25%-ish if I remember correctly and that number will keep surging past February 5, and as FKASC pointed out delaying the reopening also gives reason for others to delay boosters
• It gives certainty for family reunions and businesses such as tourism and hospitality
• Not much more we can do for the health system at this point and flu season will be here soon enough
• It is probable that omicron is already out there in Perth

 

[Jezzza]

Stick to the plan IMO.

It will be a slower growth rate of cases initially & give time for people, businesses & the health system time to adjust to living with cases in the community.

The general population gets to finish their holidays in relative normality whilst the changes like mask wearing filter in & become normalised. The Booster program is trucking along, if we maintain that rate in the link below we'll be as well prepared vaccination wise as an population in the world. There are also the younger age groups & the last minute vaccinators still being done. On first doses we are closing the gap & passing other states but still a bit behind on 2nd doses.

Daily Boosters Administered - COVID Live

Live tracking of coronavirus cases, active, tests, deaths, ICU, hospitalisations and vaccinations in WA

covidlive.com.au

Business also has a bit more time to prepare & gets that final sugar hit of normality, if the East Coast is any guide spending is going to drop quite a bit. Hopefully within the next couple of weeks info about capacity limits, isolation periods, close & casual contact definitions & how they will change as we progress will be released by the Govt. More time to enter the RAT race, they are going to be important going forward.

The Health System gets to test their protocols & see if they stand up, make changes in a considered manner. Again time to source as many RATS as possible to back up the PCR testing. It also allows as many as possible with Elective Surgery booked to get it done, a lot will have waited a long time & at some point you'd imagine that's going to be affected.

Finally the Govt had better make sure it's got it's s**t together, the borders have worked better than they could have hoped & overall I think they've done well. Now it's going to get a bit more difficult for them & us so good leadership will be so important.

 

[Crankitup]

Exactly this, was repeating the same point last year when we all had tough restrictions and people were saying the economy was copping a battering - ignoring the battering world economies were copping because consumers were afraid of spending when COVID was rampant and businesses had their staff being forced to isolate - exactly the same as we are seeing now.

All the anti-lockdown people have now gone silent. It's not a coincidence.

The only real path out of this was always widespread vaccination - NSW was forced to open up when they bungled it, vaccination rates were not ideal and before omicron became a game changer. And now the rest of Australia were forced to pay for it (except for you-know-who).

Not with these leaky vaccines. Even 100% wouldn't help.

Royal Navy flotilla reports Covid outbreak with 100 cases despite all sailors being vaccinated

The outbreak has not prompted a rethink of the Royal Navy’s voyage to 40 countries

www.independent.co.uk

 

[kane249]

Not with these leaky vaccines. Even 100% wouldn't help.

Royal Navy flotilla reports Covid outbreak with 100 cases despite all sailors being vaccinated

The outbreak has not prompted a rethink of the Royal Navy’s voyage to 40 countries

www.independent.co.uk

It's a basic concept that you still aren't grasping, the vaccines don't stop you getting COVID they do help to stop you getting a more severe outcome when catching it.

Not even the polio vaccine had a 100% record at preventing it, but i'm sure you will agree that people were better off having it than not having it.

 

[kane249]

Why is covid still a thing? There are more deaths due to mental health issues caused as a result of the lockdowns etc than actual covid.

Brainwashed society.

Increased mental health deaths didn't happen, it actually dropped in 2020 compared to 2019

COVID-19

COVID-19 page on the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare website

www.aihw.gov.au

 

[langdon19]

It gives certainty for family reunions and businesses such as tourism and hospitality

The certainty for Tourism and hospitality is not a good one.

 

[Crankitup]

It's a basic concept that you still aren't grasping, the vaccines don't stop you getting COVID they do help to stop you getting a more severe outcome when catching it.

Not even the polio vaccine had a 100% record at preventing it, but i'm sure you will agree that people were better off having it than not having it.

Do they though?

Rewind back to just prior to rollout and these things were touted at being 90-95% effective in preventing Covid and stopping transmission. Here are some examples ...

Pfizer says its experimental vaccine was more than 90 per cent effective in preventing COVID-19

COVID-19 vaccine is more than 90 per cent effective, Pfizer and BioNTech say

The World Health Organisation's senior adviser said the vaccine could "fundamentally change the direction of this crisis" by March, when the UN agency hopes to start vaccinating high-risk groups.

www.smh.com.au

A COVID-19 vaccine being produced by Pfizer may be 90 per cent effective in stopping the transmission of the deadly virus.

'Just extraordinary': Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine trial shows early success

Experts are optimistic after the initial results show the vaccine could be 90 per cent effective in stopping coronavirus transmission, but more work needs to be done in the trial.

www.abc.net.au

To be fair the media were relying on analysis of flawed trial results where many particpants with unhappy outcomes were simply removed from the study. Anyway, after rollout, when it became apparent the original 90-95% claim was ridiculous it devolved to "if you're double jabbed you could still get it but it won't be as severe". Now the claim is you're only protected if you've received the third lemon (sorry, I mean booster).

I hate to quote stats since they are regularly fudged to achieve certain aims but 36 dead in NSW yesterday 33 of whom were fully vaccinated.

They are imperfect, leaky vaccines, rushed through courtesy of Operation Warp-speed. That's the profound irony. Here you are, an avowed leftist and hater of all things Trump, defending to the death a rushed product of the Trump administration.

 

[EagleEgo]

The certainty for Tourism and hospitality is not a good one.

You are right.
In fact, if we controlled our international border tight enough to avoid Covid to get into Australia, our Domestic Tourism and Hospitality would have benefited (we are going to Marget River, Broome instead of to Bali).
Melbourne would have hosted the AFL GF in 2020 and 2021 too.

 

[squashface]

Do they though?

Rewind back to just prior to rollout and these things were touted at being 90-95% effective in preventing Covid and stopping transmission. Here are some examples ...

COVID-19 vaccine is more than 90 per cent effective, Pfizer and BioNTech say

The World Health Organisation's senior adviser said the vaccine could "fundamentally change the direction of this crisis" by March, when the UN agency hopes to start vaccinating high-risk groups.

www.smh.com.au

'Just extraordinary': Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine trial shows early success

Experts are optimistic after the initial results show the vaccine could be 90 per cent effective in stopping coronavirus transmission, but more work needs to be done in the trial.

www.abc.net.au

To be fair the media were relying on analysis of flawed trial results where many particpants with unhappy outcomes were simply removed from the study. Anyway, after rollout, when it became apparent the original 90-95% claim was ridiculous it devolved to "if you're double jabbed you could still get it but it won't be as severe". Now the claim is you're only protected if you've received the third lemon (sorry, I mean booster).

I hate to quote stats since they are regularly fudged to achieve certain aims but 36 dead in NSW yesterday 33 of whom were fully vaccinated.

It prevents COVID-19 and stops the transmission because if you are infected but have the jab then your symptoms will be less severe and therefore you wont be coughing and spluttering all over the place and therefore you won't be spreading it as much.

Cannot believe this is still being explained to people.

 

[Dazzler9]

It prevents COVID-19 and stops the transmission because if you are infected but have the jab then your symptoms will be less severe and therefore you wont be coughing and spluttering all over the place and therefore you won't be spreading it as much.

Cannot believe this is still being explained to people.

Cranky probably still believes in the election steal, so I wouldn't bother arguing the finer points mate.

 

[larrikin]

I understand the trepidation also, but if not now then when?

Why is WA holding out on reopening with 88% vaccinated and Omicron already spreading?

An epidemiologist said the west would have already reached its “peak immunity” due to a vaccine’s efficacy waning over time, with opening now rather than in three weeks time making “little difference”.

www.smh.com.au

One of those cases where the headline doesn't match the full substance of the article

“I think it’s neither here nor there when WA opens up, that’s from an epidemiologist side. On the public health side though, and the social side, has everyone prepared their business plans, and stocking of rapid antigen tests, then you might as well stick to it,” he said.

 

[Crankitup]

It prevents COVID-19 and stops the transmission because if you are infected but have the jab then your symptoms will be less severe and therefore you wont be coughing and spluttering all over the place and therefore you won't be spreading it as much.

Cannot believe this is still being explained to people.

I can't believe you're still falling for the ever shifting narrative.

Did you actually read my post? 33 of the 36 dead in NSW were fully vaccinated (some triple jabbed). You claim their symptoms would have been less severe because they were jabbed. They are DEAD.

 

[amazingjoshy]

Outside the WA bubble life goes on – with risk, but free

WA residents have told ourselves for the past two years that we live a lifestyle freer than anywhere in the world, yet my lived experience was that this isn’t quite true.

www.watoday.com.au

 

[amazingjoshy]

One of those cases where the headline doesn't match the full substance of the article

The reason i posted that article was more that it was saying we are pretty close to peak immunity now, so might aswell stick with the opening date rather than holding off longer

However, University of Melbourne epidemiologist Tony Blakely said the west would be close, if not already past its “peak immunity” due to a vaccine’s efficacy waning over time.

“There’s no epidemiological reason to hold out for the 5th, at some point you just have to open up, it’s not going to make a lot of difference,” he said.

 

[squashface]

Outside the WA bubble life goes on – with risk, but free

WA residents have told ourselves for the past two years that we live a lifestyle freer than anywhere in the world, yet my lived experience was that this isn’t quite true.

www.watoday.com.au

This in a state that has recorded more than 64,000 COVID-related deaths since the pandemic began.

My favourite encounter was with an uncle’s mother-in-law, age 91, who was getting a plane to go to Miami, on her own, to catch up with her old girlfriends. ‘What is life for if not living?’ was her attitude.

A great attitude to have except when maybe some of those 64,000 people didn't want to die?

Not being able to catch up with old girlfriends is more of a tragedy than people dying apparently.

 

[Agent93]

Outside the WA bubble life goes on – with risk, but free

WA residents have told ourselves for the past two years that we live a lifestyle freer than anywhere in the world, yet my lived experience was that this isn’t quite true.

www.watoday.com.au

I mean, ~30 times more people have died in Florida alone than Australia for a similar total population.

A great attitude to have except when maybe some of those 64,000 people didn't want to die?

Not being able to catch up with old girlfriends is more of a tragedy than people dying apparently.

That's the privilege of knowing you can afford care if you get sick. Proportionally, it's not the richer end of the spectrum that are dying in the US.

 

[Luuuc]

It prevents COVID-19 and stops the transmission because if you are infected but have the jab then your symptoms will be less severe and therefore you wont be coughing and spluttering all over the place and therefore you won't be spreading it as much.

Cannot believe this is still being explained to people.

No vaccine is better because if everyone is out there vaccinated and still going out and living normally and still catching Covid then it spreads like wildfire.
But if more people who caught it ended up in ICU on ventilators then that only exposes a few well-PPE'd hospital staff to it.