Autopsy AAMI Community Series, 2022: Essendon v St.Kilda

[gringo2011]

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One is apparently elite. One isn’t.

One played for the runners up and the other in a side that struggled.

Narrative.

Both just as good as each other.

I get it, but Dale looked amazing, I'm guessing it's Sincs or Hill. Dale looked AA not sure Sincs was far behind but I thought Dale had an outstanding year.

 

[bird_man]

View attachment 1339781
One is apparently elite. One isn’t.

One played for the runners up and the other in a side that struggled.

Narrative.

Both just as good as each other.

I don't rate players off stats, but Sinclair is probably the closest we have to elite after Steele.

I'd have both he and Dale on the cusp of elite though.

 

[gringo2011]

Marshall is elite.. I’d say only Gawn & Grundy would be considered better. Maybe even Sean Darcy if he continues to improve on last year.

Marshall was close to elite in 2019, good in 2020, injured and meh in 2021 when playing. He's potentially elite again but you can't rate players on potential or past form. Charlie Curnow is elite on that marker.

 

[bird_man]

My mates don't even rate Steele, they think we have zero elite and one A grader.

Your friends are stupid.

Seen a few lists from the media of elite players of the comp, I think every one had Steele elite.

Don't think I saw any list with more than him though.

 

[Saint_Dos]

Most rucks are 200cm tall.

Hayes had 4 hit outs for the game, it's hardly worth having him over Sharman if that is going to be his output.

He'll be coming up against 200cm every week. Hes going to struggle in there.

Not sure Sharman and Wood are really fighting for the same spot considering Wood plays high half forward to wing.

Woods role is closer to Billings than Sharman. Sharman plays as a genuine marking key forward.

The idea would be he would be competing against the back up ruck of teams on occasion.
Not all teams have a 200cm backup ruck so he would hopefully win a few more then.

Sharman isnt competing for Wood's spot directly but its another tall on the field who lacks speed. We cant play 2-3 big defenders, 1 ruck, 1 tall wing and 4 tall fwds. We already look slow with the exception of 3-4 players.
If anything its Membrey's or King's spots he is battling for which he wont get in a hurry barring the worst.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

My god Marshall as a ruck is a star.
24 disposals
4 clearances
4 inside 50s
1 rebound 50
24 hitouts

7 score involvements

His ability to ground ball handball for a ruckmen is phenomenal. Makes our midfield decent.

I thought Marshall vs Draper was a really entertaining thing to watch.
Draper would win a tap, and it looked like Marshall would get his nose out of joint and go all out to get the next one.
Great stuff for spectators.

 

[bird_man]

Marshall was close to elite in 2019, good in 2020, injured and meh in 2021 when playing. He's potentially elite again but you can't rate players on potential or past form. Charlie Curnow is elite on that marker.

Still yet to make an AA squad. Needs to put together a full season which would help.

Hes a very good player no doubt but as a ruck he's not very good as a tap ruck and as a forward he doesn't kick a lot of goals.

Obviously he has some other strengths and I think if he can put together a full consistent season he'd probably elevate himself.

 

[gringo2011]

Your friends are stupid.

Seen a few lists from the media of elite players of the comp, I think every one had Steele elite.

Don't think I saw any list with more than him though.

They obviously don't watch every game but I think they rate Petracca, Oliver, Bont, McKay etc as the elite. Absolute best of the best. Wines, Steele, MacRae your A graders. We don't have a game breaking superstar so far, Steele is as close as we have to it though.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

They obviously don't watch every game but I think they rate Petracca, Oliver, Bont, McKay etc as the elite. Absolute best of the best. Wines, Steele, MacRae your A graders. We don't have a game breaking superstar so far, Steele is as close as we have to it though.

we don't have a petracca but Steele is exactly the same as Oliver in their role

 

[D2D3]

we don't have a petracca but Steele is exactly the same as Oliver in their role

Agree if you're saying Oliver is elite you'd have to strongly consider Steele and Wines. It's a highly subjective measure though. I'd say if you're coming off back to back all australians you're elite. We all got a bit annoyed about the AA team each year but guys that get multiple AAs in a row are rarely duds.

 

[bird_man]

The idea would be he would be competing against the back up ruck of teams on occasion.
Not all teams have a 200cm backup ruck so he would hopefully win a few more then.

Sharman isnt competing for Wood's spot directly but its another tall on the field who lacks speed. We cant play 2-3 big defenders, 1 ruck, 1 tall wing and 4 tall fwds. We already look slow with the exception of 3-4 players.
If anything its Membrey's or King's spots he is battling for which he wont get in a hurry barring the worst.

Disagree.

Many clubs play two tall forwards and a third tall. That would have all of King, Membrey and Sharman.

Wood doesnt play tall at all. Rarely takes a contested mark and gets most of his footy in space. He just happens to be 191cm.

As for the back up ruck, most of the best teams were running with 2 genuine rucks last year or at least a 200cm forward to throw in there so he's going to struggle most weeks.

Collingwood Will have Grundy and Cox next week.

Freo Darcy and Lobb the following and Richmond Nankervis and Soldo the following

 

[Ads734]

I think we sometimes over rate our own.

I suppose it depends on how hard you mark your players but if you asked most people outside of St Kilda they would likely say we have one elite player.

We've probably got half a dozen knocking on the door though.

I’d say the opposite , because we’re St Kilda most opposition don’t give our players credit compared to other teams.Espescially when comparing our young guys to other young players across the comp. The media doesn’t ever talk about our young players and then fans don’t notice our decent young players.

In Bytel, I think he just needs a string of games. His end to last year was encouraging. Also the last two years for fringe/ reserves players has been tough because of the comps being cooked due to covid. Bytel maybe hone in the first round if not for injury. The difference with others is that his back injury was more then just your acl or something else. It’s a very unknown injury. Also it’s not like de dropped to a Rookie he dropped to a third rd.

Just for comparison this is Steele on the right at the same age. IIRC Bytel also has a few games as a sub skewing his stats. Anyways the important things are clearances and tackles. Considering where he started I’m happy to give him a lot more time.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Windhager was playing a small forward role and it hardly got near him. Owens hit a few centre bounces and looked good a couple of times, pretty raw but he got one huge clearance that was eye catching. He looked like he was smiling the whole time like he was loving being out there. Naz was a bit overhyped but the most promising thing was that at first he looked like he was struggling to adjust to the pace of the game. Rather than shrink he kept attacking the ball and trying to get the pill. Hill stuffed up his one slick bit of play but he has a good attitude and he looks like he moves to the right spots. He's raw but heaps to work with, he's got a smooth moving running style like a class player.

When i first sighted him, before the commentary team mentioned him, he was in the backline and we fluffed the kickout.
I thought Naz did a great job of spoiling against a much taller opponent from behind without giving away a free.
I had to blink...this was no outside Fiora type at all.

Kid seems to be a very good instinctual player. He has some adjustments to make ( we saw him get caught ) but that will be easy for him. He's doing so many things right already.

 

[gringo2011]

we don't have a petracca but Steele is exactly the same as Oliver in their role

Oliver I rate higher than McRae just for dominance on the clearance, he's second in total disposals but his ability to win first use is top shelf. Just looked up season stats. Bailey Dale had the 20th most disposals of any player in the AFL last year.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Oliver I rate higher than McRae just for dominance on the clearance, he's second in total disposals but his ability to win first use is top shelf. Just looked up season stats. Bailey Dale had the 20th most disposals of any player in the AFL last year.

Mcrae and Oliver equal on ball getting but Steele is between Oliver and Mcrae in terms of explosiveness. Macrae is quite a steady mover

 

[gringo2011]

When i first sighted him, before the commentary team mentioned him, he was in the backline and we fluffed the kickout.
I thought Naz did a great job of spoiling against a much taller opponent from behind without giving away a free.
I had to blink...this was no outside Fiora type at all.

Kid seems to be a very good instinctual player. He has some adjustments to make ( we saw him get caught ) but that will be easy for him. He's doing so many things right already.

Every disposal that was sent his way was a hospital pass early on. Seb Ross worked hard to feed him I noticed. At every opportunity he tried to get it in his hands.

 

[gringo2011]

Mcrae and Oliver equal on ball getting but Steele is between Oliver and Mcrae in terms of explosiveness. Macrae is quite a steady mover

I think it's Steele's evenness that's his greatest strength, he hardly ever has a s**t game but he is also a bit of a quiet achiever. He gets a heap of touches but they aren't disco touches. Macrae is similar.

 

[AirWinmar]

I wouldn't think I would say this, but some of Hills defensive plays were excellent. He also accumulated and broke the lines with some great footwork. If he can keep this up we may have another elite player on our list

Very impressed with the look of Owens. Great clearance work and is very hard at it.

NWM also showed great spread and pace and doesn't look like he shirks the tough stuff either.

Future is looking bright with those 2. Not to say anything bad about others, as they got involved a fair bit on limited minutes.

Poor Clark can't take a trick, he 2 way running wad actually looking very good last night. Hopefully he can heal up well and soon. Our midfield depth will be tested at thus rate.

Think Sebs work was pretty good too. If he could wind back the clock to 2019, that would be great for us. He looks to have got some confidence back

 

[StCicatriz]

Marshall is elite.. I’d say only Gawn & Grundy would be considered better. Maybe even Sean Darcy if he continues to improve on last year.

I dunno man

Gawn Grundy Nic Nat and goldstein

Then you have Darcy and Jackson in the younger group.

It's really hard to mark because Marshall was injured and then played forward.

This year should give us some clarity

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

I dunno man

Gawn Grundy Nic Nat and goldstein

Then you have Darcy and Jackson in the younger group.

It's really hard to mark because Marshall was injured and then played forward.

This year should give us some clarity

If you put Nic Nat you have to put Paddy.

 

[AirWinmar]

If you put Nic Nat you have to put Paddy.

Same with Goldstein, he's about 80 ffs. Ryder is an elite tap ruckman. Probably 2nd only to nic nat in that group

 

[StCicatriz]

For me elite players are top 5 of their position rucks probably top 3.

You're talking the absolute cream of the crop. I.e. in all Australian contention.

For mine steele is a lock. The rest gonna be a hard sell.

Sinclair looks like he can.

The rest need to get into the conversation... Wilkie could as a third tall defender. Membrey is capable if he can find consistency. King definitely can and will at some point IMO. Marshall showed some real signs but needs a full season to show it. Paton is in the Marshall boat. Hill if he can get some serious consistency absolutely can, he has all the tools.

Hanners Ross Jones crouch won't get there. Ryder is old now same with Webster and geary.

Gresham Clark coffield byrnes show small glimpses. Not enough consistency to even be in consideration yet.

Butler and Higgins show signs but again consistency is waning.

Howard needs to stop getting caught out on the lead.

Rest aren't worth mentioning.

 

[aussierulesrules]

If you put Nic Nat you have to put Paddy.

As good as Paddy is, NN is ridiculously impactful on his team and their fortunes. Hence being clearly ranked No.1 in the comp in the official AFL player ratings (which is biased towards those who ruck, but still, they track every touch everyone has, and his are obviously hugely impactful).

 

[Premium]

They obviously don't watch every game but I think they rate Petracca, Oliver, Bont, McKay etc as the elite. Absolute best of the best. Wines, Steele, MacRae your A graders. We don't have a game breaking superstar so far, Steele is as close as we have to it though.

King is the guy I hope takes the game by the scuff of the neck and rips it head off , then there is Marshall who was no game changer yesterday and that was with 20 plus disposals , but with more game time in the legs he is going to be our biggest trump card , Gresham again didn't play a huge amount of time in the middle but by the looks they are building him up slowly to the opener - but boy he showed he has the class to show he is a A grader this year , Hill --- looks like the penny dropped and we will get the version we wanted when we got him ---- Butler is on a one year contract so he will be hungry so he will be out to fix that ---- Crouch played only half a game yesterday but he is pivotal to our season and of course add Steele to that.
Howard doesn't get much love but boy he is top rated backman , Wilkie is not far behind , then throw in the class of Sinclair and Paton and you have one hell of a footy team and I havn't mentioned a few guys who can turn the game on its head like Membery and Higgins.

 

[StCicatriz]

If you put Nic Nat you have to put Paddy.

Look at the contested possession and clearance stats. That sees nic Nat way ahead of Ryder. As much as I love Ryder.