Joel Selwood, The greatest captain ever? Really?

[blaisee]

Joel Selwood's career should be celebrated, tough player, very consistent, overcoming his average skills and speed with terrific ball winning ability and a combative yet controversial playing style. Great leader, but the best captain ever? Based on what exactly, he became captain at the end of a dynasty in 2012, and has not won a flag since.

Why isn't Michael Tuck considered the greatest captain ever after all he captained the hawks to 4 flags.

IMHO Trent Cotchin

9

Trent Cotchin

Age

36

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.4

5star

K

13.8

5star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

5.2

5star

D

19.0

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

9.5

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

4.3

5star

CL

3.5

4star

D

16.6

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

8.6

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.0

3star

is better than both of them, this is because, unlike Tuck and Selwood, he didn't inherit a team from a successful era and maintain it, Cotchin inherited a basket case, and drove the values and culture of the club to be successful, drove the team in his image, and in the process captained the club to three flags.

Selwood achievement in captaining the most amount of AFL games is a terrific accomplishment, but labelling him the greatest captain of all time is just wishful thinking.

 

[kane249]

I'd have Noah Balta

21

Noah Balta

Age

26

Ht

194cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.7

3star

HB

3.1

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.9

4star

MG

236.3

4star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

5.3

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.3

1star

MG

233.0

4star

D

7.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.0

2star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.8

4star

MG

217.4

4star

up there personally, elite captain/ruck/fwd

 

[STPer18]

I'd have Noah Balta up there personally, elite captain/ruck/fwd

And Shai Bolton.

 

[Hawker55]

Who’s saying he’s the best captain ever? He’s had the most games (which is a great achievement) but I don’t think the commentary accompanying it is saying he’s the best ever.

 

[Veer Right]

James Hird has my vote

 

[PhatBoy]

Richmond fan ragging on a Cats player getting plaudits.

Huge if true.

How do you quantify a captain’s ‘goodness?’

What makes a Cotchin who did a great job with a laughing stock that became a great side, better than a Riewoldt who led a perpetual laughing stock to becoming an equally good side but who ran into two freak opponents? What makes him better than Marc Murphy who led Carlton at one of their lowest ebbs in their storied history when the people running the club couldn’t organise a stench at a sewer plant?

It’s just flags that matter

 

[dee64]

I'd have Noah Balta

21

Noah Balta

Age

26

Ht

194cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.7

3star

HB

3.1

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.9

4star

MG

236.3

4star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

5.3

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.3

1star

MG

233.0

4star

D

7.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.0

2star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.8

4star

MG

217.4

4star

up there personally, elite captain/ruck/fwd

Dimma's retiring at the end of the season and Noah Balta will become captain coach. How rare a footballer is Noah?

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Nah he's not. But I'd take him as a captain over Cotchin personally, and that's not intended as a sleight either way.

 

[blaisee]

It’s just flags that matter

agree,

but more than that,

its what was the club like when you got there, and how good was the club when you played there as captain ( did it improve )

 

[blaisee]

Nah he's not. But I'd take him as a captain over Cotchin personally, and that's not intended as a sleight either way.

why?

 

[BringouttheGimp]

No.. 0 premierships as captain.

 

[PhatBoy]

agree,

but more than that,

its what was the club like when you got there, and how good was the club when you played there as captain ( did it improve )

Yeah because lots of captains improve clubs that have just won 3 flags in 5 years and won 103 of their previous 120 games. When the players who achieved those results move on, the incoming captain HAS to make the side achieve better results or he’s doing a bad job.

And it’s not the output of the other players or coaches who have any bearing on this improvement. It’s only the captain. He has final power of veto over results.

It’s the only way to judge a captain.

 

[PhatBoy]

It’s like cricketers.

No way Brian Lara can be considered a better top order lynchpin than Ian Bell. Bell played in way more wins. And the middle order lynchpin is the only factor that impacts test cricket results. We all know that.

 

[Proper Gander]

I knew this thread wasn’t going to end well, but it hasn’t started well either

 

[VinnieB]

First Noah builds a massive boat and saves the world.
Then he dons the black and gold and becomes the greatest, rarest AFL multi positional player the world has seen.
He moves on to being the greatest Captain/Coach to play the game.

What next for Noah the Balta?

 

[blaisee]

Yeah because lots of captains improve clubs that have just won 3 flags in 5 years and won 103 of their previous 120 games. When the players who achieved those results move on, the incoming captain HAS to make the side achieve better results or he’s doing a bad job.

And it’s not the output of the other players or coaches who have any bearing on this improvement. It’s only the captain. He has final power of veto over results.

It’s the only way to judge a captain.

success has a thousand fathers, but failure is an orphan.

Not saying it is all Selwoods fault

joel Selwood was a great leader, problem is he wasn't able to drag his team across the line as a premiership captain,

This means he can never be considered the greatest, its arguable to say that his team got worse when he became skipper

Harsh but true

 

[Romeoh1]

Joel Selwood's career should be celebrated, tough player, very consistent, overcoming his average skills and speed with terrific ball winning ability and a combative yet controversial playing style. Great leader, but the best captain ever? Based on what exactly, he became captain at the end of a dynasty in 2012, and has not won a flag since.

Why isn't Michael Tuck considered the greatest captain ever after all he captained the hawks to 4 flags.

IMHO Trent Cotchin is better than both of them, this is because, unlike Tuck and Selwood, he didn't inherit a team from a successful era and maintain it, Cotchin inherited a basket case, and drove the values and culture of the club to be successful, drove the team in his image, and in the process captained the club to three flags.

Selwood achievement in captaining the most amount of AFL games is a terrific accomplishment, but labelling him the greatest captain of all time is just wishful thinking.

Don’t think anyone is saying he’s the ‘best captain’ ever-where did you get that? He’s quite rightly being congratulated on captaining the most games. It’s not complicated.

 

[blaisee]

First Noah builds a massive boat and saves the world.
Then he dons the black and gold and becomes the greatest, rarest AFL multi positional player the world has seen.
He moves on to being the greatest Captain/Coach to play the game.

What next for Noah the Balta?

you stalking me?


Shucks you are making me blush

 

[Beerfish]

It’s just flags that matter

I'm pretty sure you'll find the general consensus is that winning a final matters more than flags.

 

[VinnieB]

you stalking me?


Shucks you are making me blush

The greatest, rarest, deepest thinker on BigFooty. How can I not???!!!

 

[00Stinger]

Trent Cotchin

9

Trent Cotchin

Age

36

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.4

5star

K

13.8

5star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

5.2

5star

D

19.0

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

9.5

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

4.3

5star

CL

3.5

4star

D

16.6

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

8.6

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.0

3star

the greatest captain ever?

You can't make this shit up

 

[Captain_Bender]

The official rating of the greatest captains ever

1: Jack Dyer
2: Royce Hart
3: Trent Cotchin

9

Trent Cotchin

Age

36

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.4

5star

K

13.8

5star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

5.2

5star

D

19.0

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

9.5

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

4.3

5star

CL

3.5

4star

D

16.6

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

8.6

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.0

3star

4: Percy Bentley
5: Dan Minogue
6: Roger Dean
7: Fred Swift
8: Bruce Monteath

No one else is worth a mention

 

[Sky]

success has a thousand fathers, but failure is an orphan.

Not saying it is all Selwoods fault

joel Selwood was a great leader, problem is he wasn't able to drag his team across the line as a premiership captain,

This means he can never be considered the greatest, its arguable to say that his team got worse when he became skipper

Harsh but true

There’s plenty of things wrong down at Geelong in the last 10 years but even as a very critical supporter of the club, I don’t think Joel Selwood has ever been one of those things. The coach has been a dud since 2013.

Joel is not the greatest captain of all time but making the top 8 in 9 of 10 seasons as captain ain’t anything but top ten stuff. Into his 11th season as captain and I think needs about 11 more games to have the most wins as a captain - I’m uncertain if we’ll even win that many games this year but the last 15 seasons supporting Geelong have shown me that they probably will.

I’m pretty lucky to have watched the entirety of Selwood and Hawkins careers as a 10 year old to now being 25 and they’re into their 16th seasons having missed finals once in that time. Bit spoilt really and to think my Dad wanted me to support Carlton and my Mum Port Adelaide. Thank **** my parents let me make up my own mind

 

[hawkman]

I'm pretty sure you'll find the general consensus is that winning a final matters more than flags.

Unlucky for Jobe

 

[blaisee]

There’s plenty of things wrong down at Geelong in the last 10 years but even as a very critical supporter of the club, I don’t think Joel Selwood has ever been one of those things. The coach has been a dud since 2013.

Joel is not the greatest captain of all time but making the top 8 in 9 of 10 seasons as captain ain’t anything but top ten stuff. Into his 11th season as captain and I think needs about 11 more games to have the most wins as a captain - I’m uncertain if we’ll even win that many games this year but the last 15 seasons supporting Geelong have shown me that they probably will.

I’m pretty lucky to have watched the entirety of Selwood and Hawkins careers as a 10 year old to now being 25 and they’re into their 16th seasons having missed finals once in that time. Bit spoilt really

hard to argue with this, especially the bit on the coach