Preview 2022 Rd 16 Carlton vs St Kilda Friday July 1 7:50PM @ Marvel Stadium

[RAPPA]

So the players we have left that are fit to play are:

Stocker
Dow
Hayes
Setterfield
Martin
Cerra
Owies (?)

The barrel is nearly bare.


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At this stage losing a further KPD with Kemp in puts JSOS in the back line as the last available option.

Losing a KPF puts more responsibility on our smalls and HFFs, and puts more pressure on TDK with the ruck duties as JSOS would end up spending more time up forward.

Losing TDK puts the pressure on JSOS as the main ruck with short stints from Cripps where required.

JSOS might as well be called WD-40

 

[Sickblue]

So the players we have left that are fit to play are:

Stocker
Dow
Hayes
Setterfield
Martin
Cerra
Owies (?)

The barrel is nearly bare.


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+ Mirkov and our NGA man (Dom) who are a long, long way off being ready for senior footy. Think. Ed Curnow will also be ready to go in the next week or so.

 

[FRUMPY]

Although we are flying this year and have shown game after game that we are the real deal I still struggle to be too confident going into games.

This is once again one of those games that Im fearing although I’m thinking we should win.

its a good way to go into games though, otherwise you 'd get mighty pissed when we put in a bad performance or get beat.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Except that core is now
Weitering
Young
Docherty
Saad
Newman
Plowman
Stocker
Boyd
Williams
Marchbank
McGovern
Kemp
and let’s add McDonald when fit.

Plow is not “old”, but is unlikely to have much upside on what we have seen. If fit Marchbank is a star, Kemp with a bit of confidence and continuity will be a star, reluctantly I will concede McGovern when fit and firing is a star and kept Plow out at the start of the season.

Potentially a fit McDonald allows one of Weitering or Young to play a more expansive interceptor role. So many options, and just with the talls in this discussion.

McDonald is goneski, his body just can’t hold up. If we didn’t have Marchbank and McLovin continuously injured he may survive but you just cannot afford to have 3 injury prone blokes effectively playing the same position.
McLovin has a year to go on contract and Marchbank is a better footballer than McDonald.


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[teagueyubeauty]

Don’t be too stunned if they ask Newnes to go back. He’s done that a fair bit.

It’s actually where he played his best football at the Aints, then they tried moving him to wing/half forward and eventually out of the club


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[chunkylover53]

If Weitering is back, I hope we find a way to keep Kemp in. He seems to be better at AFL level than VFL.

I like Plow, but I'd rather a trio of Weitering/Lewis/Kemp. That's us for the next decade you'd think.

 

[gbatman]

You know alot of people agree with me about Plowman for someone that has played the amount of football he has
He should be at the level of players like Broad and Vlastuin
So we all must be wrong then aye

I posted this April 13th this year pre-Port game.

The trend of Plow doing a good job against the dangerous smalls isn't just based on Gray. These are the stats in games when Plow was playing.

Tom Papley --> Last 3 Games : 3 goals

Charlie Cameron --> Last 3 Games : 5 goals

Michael Walters --> Last 3 Games : 3 goals

Robbie Gray --> Last 3 Games : 6 goals

So his worst record is against Gray - and this is a list which includes Papley and Cameron who imo are the two best small forwards in the AFL (and have been for a few years). Also take into account that we were putrid during these seasons so the ball was going in with little delay from our midfield.

The issue with Plowman isn't that he can't shut down an opponent, we know he can do that. It's that he's one way and doesn't fulfil all aspects of the third tall defender role.

He wasn't in the team round 1 for this reason.

He is excellent depth and backup for a number of our defenders who he has continually had to step in for.

The role of the third tall defender is to be able to play on tall and small opponents as well as being able to step up at times to play key position, say in case of injury. The role also requires that they are a threat when it comes to intercept marking and if they are really good, getting on the end of a few rebound plays. We got all of this from McGovern in the first two rounds and Marchbank over his stop start career. We have get all of this from Plowman rarely. You get the defensive stuff from Plowman and that's mostly good but the offensive stuff is missing and we can get bye with that but we are a better team if we have it.

IMO if we developed him in the seniors Kemp would provide us with all of this.

 

[carlton_99]

The issue with Plowman isn't that he can't shut down an opponent, we know he can do that. It's that he's one way and doesn't fulfil all aspects of the third tall defender role.

He wasn't in the team round 1 for this reason.

He is excellent depth and backup for a number of our defenders who he has continually had to step in for.

The role of the third tall defender is to be able to play on tall and small opponents as well as being able to step up at times to play key position, say in case of injury. The role also requires that they are a threat when it comes to intercept marking and if they are really good, getting on the end of a few rebound plays. We got all of this from McGovern in the first two rounds and Marchbank over his stop start career. We have get all of this from Plowman rarely. You get the defensive stuff from Plowman and that's mostly good but the offensive stuff is missing and we can get bye with that but we are a better team if we have it.

IMO if we developed him in the seniors Kemp would provide us with all of this.

I would 100% prefer what McGovern was doing early this year in the role. I just think Plowman still has a role to play purely as a lockdown defender. Does that mean he is guaranteed to play every game. No. But I defientely think the offensive part of his game has improved and is at the very minimum a very reliable role player

 

[windows1]

Weiters won’t be back - Matt Kennedy on SEN.

 

[thegreatbeast]

Weiters won’t be back - Matt Kennedy on SEN.

Voss said he is a very very small chance to play on 360 last night.

 

[Blue Chip Pass]

I'm already impatient for the big game on Friday. God damit.
The atmosphere will be fantastic. Love seeing our running players in full flight (Walsh, Saad, Fisher, Cottrel, LOB, Newnes, Durdin & Motlop) Very exciting.
BTW. Aren't they talking up TDK now. Worth $800-900k after playing his best game.
Austin will have some head aches in the next year or getting all our gun players signed up.
GO BAGGERS

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

So, who are the preferred back six/seven when Boyd, Weiters, Brackets, Wiliams, Marchy, Durdin, Stocker are back? (I'll discount OMac)

Weiters, Young, Saad and Doc are locks.

Newman on current form is a lock.

So two spots - 6th and 7th defenders.

Boyd/Stocker as the BP/small defender? Boyd ahead bar injury. Stocker will get games now to prove his worth...

So, need a 3rd, 4th tall - that's Plow, Marchy or Guv.

Guv's early season form puts him ahead of Plow imo, though Guv and Marchbank are huge question marks re staying on the park!

Tough for Williams to get back in, good back up!!

 

[FRUMPY]

So, who are the preferred back six/seven when Boyd, Weiters, Brackets, Wiliams, Marchy, Durdin, Stocker are back? (I'll discount OMac)

Weiters, Young, Saad and Doc are locks.

Newman on current form is a lock.

So two spots - 6th and 7th defenders.

Boyd/Stocker as the BP/small defender? Boyd ahead bar injury. Stocker will get games now to prove his worth...

So, need a 3rd, 4th tall - that's Plow, Marchy or Guv.

Guv's early season form puts him ahead of Plow imo, though Guv and Marchbank are huge question marks re staying on the park!

Tough for Williams to get back in, good back up!!

I think you'll find, if all fit and firing, it would be:

Weitering, Young, Gov, Saad, Doc, Newman & Williams

It wont be a problem, they'll be injuries and form to decide who plays and doesnt - already Boyd is out and Stoker is in the magoos due to poor form

 

[Stamos]

The issue with Plowman isn't that he can't shut down an opponent, we know he can do that. It's that he's one way and doesn't fulfil all aspects of the third tall defender role.

He wasn't in the team round 1 for this reason.

He is excellent depth and backup for a number of our defenders who he has continually had to step in for.

The role of the third tall defender is to be able to play on tall and small opponents as well as being able to step up at times to play key position, say in case of injury. The role also requires that they are a threat when it comes to intercept marking and if they are really good, getting on the end of a few rebound plays. We got all of this from McGovern in the first two rounds and Marchbank over his stop start career. We have get all of this from Plowman rarely. You get the defensive stuff from Plowman and that's mostly good but the offensive stuff is missing and we can get bye with that but we are a better team if we have it.

IMO if we developed him in the seniors Kemp would provide us with all of this.

He's not really a 3rd tall defender though. So it's your expectations that are off, rather than his game.

 

[FRUMPY]

Plow has been very good since getting back into the side - think he is better when he is more defensive and letting others do the offensive work (Doc & Saad)

Amazing what happens when you arent guaranteed a game each week and selection is based on performance.

 

[Brighton_Diggins]

Time is running out for the saints. And they need a response. Been a thorn in our side for how long?
I expect this to be a tough game and a close game.
At first I thought this would've been better at the G but we've definitely played better in the dryer conditions.
Another slug fest in the rain/greasy conditions against the saints would've levelled it a bit.

Cerra back gives us that little bit of class. And hopefully that edge to win.

Again, our starts Vossy?
Time we put a few on the board early. But I expect the Saints to ride us all the way.

Blues by 8 points.

 

[FRUMPY]

remember the good old days when we hated playing at docklands as we were s**t there.....I remember it like it was last year

 

[Arr0w]

So, who are the preferred back six/seven when Boyd, Weiters, Brackets, Wiliams, Marchy, Durdin, Stocker are back? (I'll discount OMac)

Weiters, Young, Saad and Doc are locks.

Newman on current form is a lock.

So two spots - 6th and 7th defenders.

Boyd/Stocker as the BP/small defender? Boyd ahead bar injury. Stocker will get games now to prove his worth...

So, need a 3rd, 4th tall - that's Plow, Marchy or Guv.

Guv's early season form puts him ahead of Plow imo, though Guv and Marchbank are huge question marks re staying on the park!

Tough for Williams to get back in, good back up!!

At this stage Williams is well ahead of Stocker

 

[Accidental genius]

its a good way to go into games though, otherwise you 'd get mighty pissed when we put in a bad performance or get beat.

Yeah it is and on the flip side you feel extremely good about the win. Example last week against freo.

 

[Bletch]

+ Mirkov and our NGA man (Dom) who are a long, long way off being ready for senior footy. Think. Ed Curnow will also be ready to go in the next week or so.

Dom is out with concussion. Wasn't listed on the injury update yesterday though - perhaps because of the VFL bye.

 

[Arr0w]

Plow has been very good since getting back into the side - think he is better when he is more defensive and letting others do the offensive work (Doc & Saad)

Amazing what happens when you arent guaranteed a game each week and selection is based on performance.

Seen you mention this a couple of times, yet Plow not being in the side early in the season is being underdone early on

Perhaps, like most of the players/team, a more modern day defensive setup (back and all over the ground) is more the reason why Plow has been more reliable/consistent, rather than backmen playing one out

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

The issue with Plowman isn't that he can't shut down an opponent, we know he can do that. It's that he's one way and doesn't fulfil all aspects of the third tall defender role.

He wasn't in the team round 1 for this reason.

He is excellent depth and backup for a number of our defenders who he has continually had to step in for.

The role of the third tall defender is to be able to play on tall and small opponents as well as being able to step up at times to play key position, say in case of injury. The role also requires that they are a threat when it comes to intercept marking and if they are really good, getting on the end of a few rebound plays. We got all of this from McGovern in the first two rounds and Marchbank over his stop start career. We have get all of this from Plowman rarely. You get the defensive stuff from Plowman and that's mostly good but the offensive stuff is missing and we can get bye with that but we are a better team if we have it.

IMO if we developed him in the seniors Kemp would provide us with all of this.

I think perhaps in addition to this (btw I love the plow) that due to his role he's not a highlight reel guy. So when he does appear in them it's for losing a contested mark etc. That one vs Hunt(?) Against Freo looked horrible but it was one mistake in an otherwise good game imo. Essentially, I think his mistakes stand out and that becomes easy to remember as his wins do not. Especially on tele.

 

[FRUMPY]

Seen you mention this a couple of times, yet Plow not being in the side early in the season is being underdone early on

Perhaps, like most of the players/team, a more modern day defensive setup (back and all over the ground) is more the reason why Plow has been more reliable/consistent, rather than backmen playing one out

No doubt the whole structure is better and would help, but it also helps when players know they need to perform and meet coaches expectations or risk getting dropped. Too many players got away with poor performances under teague and to the detriment of the team.

 

[Ezayyak]

So, this is a make up game for St Kilda members. Absolutely ridiculous. As a member l am paying through my teeth to go this week. Why would a game against Carlton at Marvel be a makeup game? Why isn't it against a team they play away at the G or a team like North.

 

[RedFury]

Has anyone else watched Cotter's sasauge on the run more than twice..
The lead up and finish was pure silk.

The fake to handball to Walsh before ducking behind him was the best part - completely opened up the play as about 3 defenders bought it and went with Walsh.