News The Hawthorn Allegations

[Anzacday]

Bet Hawks supporters will be glad when this bloke has gone…

Hawks president criticises First Nations players for speaking to ABC

Hawthorn president Jeff Kennett tells members at the Hawks' best and fairest awards night it was "unfair" for the three First Nations players to speak to ABC journalists.

www.abc.net.au

 

[jmac70]

Bet Hawks supporters will be glad when this bloke has gone…

Hawks president criticises First Nations players for speaking to ABC

Hawthorn president Jeff Kennett tells members at the Hawks' best and fairest awards night it was "unfair" for the three First Nations players to speak to ABC journalists.

www.abc.net.au

He has always been a dick of the highest order.

 

[domus]

You haven't indicated any concern that the allegations might be true, from anything I've read.

Not once have you grappled with what it might mean for the players, families and communities affected. Not once have you expressed any alarm at the possible implications for them and for Indigenous players more broadly.

Your only concern is to wring your hands in concern for Clarkson and co and for their reputations.

For mine, it's the hallmark of a bigot. At the very least it is a small-minded perspective which does nothing to disguise the fact that you just don't give much of a s*** about Indigenous experiences in this country or in the AFL.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm also concerned for Clarkson and Fagan and the HFC to put forward their versions of events. I'm curious to hear them.

Then you need to read my comments again. I have stated if true the men accused should never work in football again. I'm not focused on that aspect of the allegations because that is not the point of contention. One side has had their allegations presented in bold headlines and with breathless excitement in the media while the other was never given an opportunity to respond to the allegations before they were presented on every media platform in a manner which suggested the allegations were true.

Yes, they slipped in the (if true) line to cover their arses before going on their emotional head shaking rants. Caroline Wilson has already declared Fagan and Clarkson will not coach next year.

I don't give a flying * what you and all of your finger pointing mates think I am. It's utterly juvenile. I have never written a word on any thread which could lead anyone other than a mindless ideologue to believe I am a bigot or have any problem with indigenous people. It is truly mind-blowing. Please provide me with a line or two I have written which supports your assertion I am a bigot when all I have said is it is unjust to have anonymous allegations made against people published and discussed at length before the people accused can respond. What the hell does that opinion have to do with skin colour? It is about a process. If the accusers were white and the accused black I would be arguing just as passionately that the accused have been unjustly treated.

And why should I join the conga line of posters expressing the things you suggest when almost all of the posters on this thread have done so already and I had already said if true they should never be involved in footy again? Do I need to get your nod of approval to be deemed worthy of having an opinion?

 

[domus]

It certainly is for some… but for other Indigenous Australians, it won’t be

That’s the problem with people like jmac and co

They refuse to accept that indigenous Australians… as you know, first and foremostly are individuals… each will have varied opinions and experiences on this topic and every other issue affecting Indigenous Australia

Instead of noting the Burgoyne and Cameron input in to this… jmac and co ignore it or downplay it… cause it does fit the desired narrative or the indigenous politics that they subscribe to

I find the belief some seem to keep pushing that indigenous people are all of one mind on any given issue incredibly patronizing, arrogant and presumptuous.

 

[jmac70]

I find the belief some seem to keep pushing that indigenous people are all of one mind on any given issue incredibly patronizing, arrogant and presumptuous.

Ironic.

 

[gouki88]

Kennett citing Bolte is hilarious. Two asses in a pod

 

[JB1975]

Then you need to read my comments again. I have stated if true the men accused should never work in football again. I'm not focused on that aspect of the allegations because that is not the point of contention. One side has had their allegations presented in bold headlines and with breathless excitement in the media while the other was never given an opportunity to respond to the allegations before they were presented on every media platform in a manner which suggested the allegations were true.

Yes, they slipped in the (if true) line to cover their arses before going on their emotional head shaking rants. Caroline Wilson has already declared Fagan and Clarkson will not coach next year.

I don't give a flying * what you and all of your finger pointing mates think I am. It's utterly juvenile. I have never written a word on any thread which could lead anyone other than a mindless ideologue to believe I am a bigot or have any problem with indigenous people. It is truly mind-blowing. Please provide me with a line or two I have written which supports your assertion I am a bigot when all I have said is it is unjust to have anonymous allegations made against people published and discussed at length before the people accused can respond. What the hell does that opinion have to do with skin colour? It is about a process. If the accusers were white and the accused black I would be arguing just as passionately that the accused have been unjustly treated.

And why should I join the conga line of posters expressing the things you suggest when almost all of the posters on this thread have done so already and I had already said if true they should never be involved in footy again? Do I need to get your nod of approval to be deemed worthy of having an opinion?

You love to see yourself lined up against the odds in favour of the outsider. Very Atticus Finch.

Thing is, most people agree that there needs to be a fuller understanding of the situation, so your martyrdom is wasted on that front.

I enjoy your challenge for me to find your bigoted utterances, not least because it came straight after you said that you don't give a flying f*** for my opinion.

It also amused because I made it clear that my sense of your perspective comes from what you're not saying. You're a bloke who writes a lot, who expends a load of words on the things he cares about, and the absence of any concern about Indigenous experiences tells me most of what I want to know.

And I never suggested that your views need to be authorised, or that they shouldn't be expressed. Not sure how you came to that conclusion, although I reckon that your victim mentality has quite a bit to do with it.

 

[MyManLynch]

Kennett citing Bolte is hilarious. Two asses in a pod

I assume Kennett would have preferred the Indigenous players to keep their truths to themselves or air them internally for the Club/AFL to handle (manage).
This method of handling (read..sweeping under the carpet) is exactly why they went public.
This has been going on for Eons…within the AFL & society in general.
Paper over the cracks & hope it goes away.
These young men (& their families) have a right to be heard.

 

[Ginnieboy]

I would be very surprised if there was any significant issues at Fremantle. The WA teams have a much better understanding of the indigenous cultures than what the Victorian states have. You will find they have far greater exposure to indigenous footballers through local, country leagues and WAFL. There is overall a far greater interconnection of cultures in WA.

Not saying you’re wrong but how many eastern state coaches have you had? Be it senior, assistant, line etc.

 

[jonbe54]

Bet Hawks supporters will be glad when this bloke has gone…

Hawks president criticises First Nations players for speaking to ABC

Hawthorn president Jeff Kennett tells members at the Hawks' best and fairest awards night it was "unfair" for the three First Nations players to speak to ABC journalists.

www.abc.net.au

He has always been a dick of the highest order.

A self righteous twat of the highest order with a massively over inflated ego.

Ask him about making the state govt books balance by selling off primary schools and public utilities.

 

[Ginnieboy]

I'm not sure why. If we were to discover the same treatment has been meted out to players with a variety of racial backgrounds wouldn't it point to the fact that race is not the reason for the mistreatment? The investigation only interviewed indigenous players so we won't ever know unless someone speaks up.

I see today that the young black star of Stranger Things called fans of the show racist because less people lined up to get his autograph at a convention. Does that mean it's true? If we could point out even shorter lines for white stars of other shows would this undermine his claims that race was the motivating factor behind the shorter lines and that it was more likely to be his acting ability or the character he played being less appealing? Perhaps we could also point out the enormous number of popular black entertainers, sports stars, politicians who have been idolized and loved by millions of Americans over the past few decades and ask why they had no popularity issues.

I know how easy it is to throw the word racist at any person who dares to criticize an indigenous person or when someone mistreats an indigenous person. The mistreatment may be very real but it may have nothing to do with their race and just be the poor behaviour a coach/ teacher metes out to anybody who comes under their control.

I went to an underprivileged primary school, one of my best mates was of African origin, we were underprivileged but bloody good at sport, Don (as everyone called him) was a brilliant athlete, spoke like Paul Hogan, was just one of the boys, come school sports time he would play soccer, we used to beg, plead with him to play footy but could never convince him.

We’d all get back from sport just before home time, Don would say “how many ya kick ‘surname’ I’d say 1, how many you kick Don?, 16 I think, oh.

We all went to Vic Park one day, we were all Pie fans, we were 11/12 year olds, we never asked him to play footy again after that day i remember feeling helpless, one of worst experiences of my life seeing the pain he was in, wasn’t just a Collingwood thing either, it was league wide in the early 80s, disgusting.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Bet Hawks supporters will be glad when this bloke has gone…

Hawks president criticises First Nations players for speaking to ABC

Hawthorn president Jeff Kennett tells members at the Hawks' best and fairest awards night it was "unfair" for the three First Nations players to speak to ABC journalists.

www.abc.net.au

To provide the other side of the argument……

While these players have gone public with this report they can’t possibly expect to do so and retain anonymity to allow Clarkson Fagan etc a fair hearing. Having taken this step and thrown the mud….. they have to now back up their claims and by doing so their identities will be revealed. They can’t have it both ways, and if they thought they did they have been badly advised..

Further, they have drawn their other aboriginal colleagues into this who might have preferred they didn’t and might still prefer to remain silent. Further further, as we don’t know yet who has leaked this to the press, we don’t know how serious their specific allegations were. For all we know, the more serious allegations may still rest with players who don’t want to take this any further and are equally distressed it’s been leaked.

 

[Quicky]

Ok here goes
Family is important to everyone not just Aboriginal people. MOST people value family, not all.
Some of the differences are many Aboriginal children live in communities where there parents, brothers, sisters, Grandparents, Uncles, Aunties, cousins live in the one dwelling or within the one small community so there is more reliance and daily relationships with extended family.
Due to stolen generation many elders Place great emphasis on family.
The reliance on family with Aboriginal footballers is not based on family being more important rather it is based on family being a culturally safe environment.
Yes many footballers leave their families coming from remote areas or interstate but very few have such cultural change.
Many of our Aboriginal footballers have been never spoken English. They are uncomfortable speaking English and reluctant to do so. There are cultural differences. For example young Aboriginal children are taught to never look an elder in the eye. This goes against everything leaders in football clubs teach. Always look the coach in the eye. Their are significant body language and verbal language differences. There are even significant dietary differences.
Family is not more important to Aboriginal people but it is where young Aboriginal players feel safe, accepted and not different.

I'll add a little to this. It can be a big sacrifice for a young Aboriginal person to leave community. It usually needs to happen with the blessing of the family. To become an Elder you typically need to live in the community to learn the lessons and contribute to community. I've worked with Aboriginal people who have given up that opportunity by working away from their communities and it is not a trivial thing.

 

[Quicky]

Mainly Elders. Youngsters are taught to bow heads and listen to elders. By lowering eyes you are taking away vision and distraction and the focus is on the importance of listening.

In western culture we often have a compulsion to fill silence with words. Silence in conversations is uncomfortable and awkward. In Aboriginal culture it is normal and necessary. In silence someone is giving due consideration to what you've said. It's polite to allow that silence.

 

[Black_White]

I assume Kennett would have preferred the Indigenous players to keep their truths to themselves or air them internally for the Club/AFL to handle (manage).
This method of handling (read..sweeping under the carpet) is exactly why they went public.
This has been going on for Eons…within the AFL & society in general.
Paper over the cracks & hope it goes away.
These young men (& their families) have a right to be heard.

They did express their experiences internally.
To the report.
The fact they had these discussions months ago and the report had been handed to the club, and I believe the AFL, with no action taken was the reason they then went public. A you stated.
These reasons were stated on the very first broadcast of this issue on ABC radio.
Kennett was in charge when a lot of these things happened. Ego is driving this.

 

[Quicky]

Problem is that the investigation is being organised by the AFL.

It's interesting that the three + spouses that provided comments to the media are willing to be involved in an enquury including cross examination if it is independently run.

 

[JLC]

When you consider that these boys and girls are recruited from another culture at a still young age basic human decency demands that the club should consider itself in loco parentis at the very least.

If the allegations are true - even in the smallest part - and I have no reason to believe either way, then it's a dark chapter indeed.

We can safely assume the AFL will act to limit the damage witch is all the more damning.

I cannot believe nothing has been mentioned about the Player Managers. I am surprised that none of the complaints / allegations were made via their player agent. And if they were why did nothing eventuate?

 

[Black_White]

A good read. Tracey Holmes is highly respected sports journalist.

Judge, jury, executioner — the AFL's iron grip authority is being challenged

External pressure is rising on the AFL after the abuse allegations levelled against Hawthorn, writes Tracey Holmes, with the Federal Government watching developments closely.

www.abc.net.au

And….. white man says nothing to see here.

'They only ever wanted the best for me': Hodge throws support behind Hawthorn coaches

Three-time Hawks premiership skipper Luke Hodge backs his former Hawthorn coaches, as the AFL investigates allegations of racism.

www.abc.net.au

 

[jonbe54]

I cannot believe nothing has been mentioned about the Player Managers. I am surprised that none of the complaints / allegations were made via their player agent. And if they were why did nothing eventuate?

Of course not no profit in it for managers.

Worse than used car salespersons or politicians, totally selfish and utterly amoral.

 

[JLC]

A good read. Tracey Holmes is highly respected sports journalist.

Judge, jury, executioner — the AFL's iron grip authority is being challenged

External pressure is rising on the AFL after the abuse allegations levelled against Hawthorn, writes Tracey Holmes, with the Federal Government watching developments closely.

www.abc.net.au

And….. white man says nothing to see here.

'They only ever wanted the best for me': Hodge throws support behind Hawthorn coaches

Three-time Hawks premiership skipper Luke Hodge backs his former Hawthorn coaches, as the AFL investigates allegations of racism.

www.abc.net.au

Hodge as making the comments more from being captain as opposed to the colour of his skin.

Burgoyne could easily make the same comments.

 

[JLC]

Of course not no profit in it for managers.

Worse than used car salespersons or politicians, totally selfish and utterly amoral.

When it comes to business and personal affairs the managers are there - especially with the younger players. I have heard some stories where post career an afl player has no idea how to use an ATM machine. The player managers and their assistants are usually very hands on.

 

[jonbe54]

When it comes to business and personal affairs the managers are there - especially with the younger players. I have heard some stories where post career an afl player has no idea how to use an ATM machine. The player managers and their assistants are usually very hands on.

I'm not interested in their deeds but their motivation.

 

[Antz]

WorkSafe investigating.

Hawthorn is under investigation from WorkSafe Victoria over its alleged treatment of First Nations players.

The Sunday Herald Sun can reveal that inspectors for the workplace health and safety regulator will attend the club’s Waverley Park headquarters on Monday to ramp up its inquiries on the back of the club’s internal racism review.
It’s understood WorkSafe Victoria has already seized a range of materials from the Hawks in recent virtual meetings.
On Monday, they will sit down with Hawthorn powerbrokers including the club’s general manager of legal, risk and integrity Nick Holland

Nick Holland

Age

49

Ht

195cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.8

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

4.6

3star

M

6.8

5star

T

1.0

3star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

11.0

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

0.6

3star

G

0.4

3star

.

Hawthorn is under investigation from WorkSafe Victoria.
“WorkSafe has commenced investigating the recent allegations relating to the Hawthorn Football Club,” WorkSafe’s executive director of health and safety Dr Narelle Beer told the Sunday Herald Sun.
“WorkSafe is urging anyone who experienced or witnessed health and safety concerns at Hawthorn Football Club to contact WorkSafe to make a statement.
“Every Victorian worker, no matter their cultural background, has the right to a healthy and safe workplace.
“WorkSafe takes allegations of workplace bullying and discrimination very seriously and can take enforcement action when employers fail to protect the mental health of those in their workplace.”
It’s understood the Hawks are expecting the visit on Monday.
WorkSafe’s investigation will run separately to the AFL’s looming external probe into the disturbing claims that have seen coaches Alastair Clarkson (North Melbourne) and Chris Fagan (Brisbane Lions) stand aside.
Clarkson and Fagan have both denied any wrongdoing.
It’s understood Hawthorn’s review, authored by Phil Egan, was not among the documents that have already been handed over to WorkSafe Victoria.
That review revealed allegations from players and their partners that claimed they had been subjected to “bullying and intimidation tactics … used to isolate First Nations players from their families and communities”.

Alastair Clarkson during his time as Hawthorn coach.
The Herald Sun revealed last week that the complainants who have already told their harrowing stories twice have deep reservations about being involved in an official investigation.
AFL Players’ Association boss Paul Marsh said on Thursday he did not believe the AFL should be overseeing the appointment of the panel that will investigate the explosive claims.
Marsh accused the league of being “conflicted” and called for “the right process” to be implemented to ensure stability and fairness for all.
“This is not a tribunal hearing,” Marsh said.
“This is actually something where there are people within the industry, including an AFL commissioner (Andrew Newbold), who there are accusations about.
“What we and the players want here is that it’s an independent, robust process.”
The revelation that WorkSafe Victoria has launched its own investigation into the Hawks could alleviate some of the complainant’s concerns about speaking again because they would be speaking to an independent statutory authority.
WorkSafe Victoria is responsible for enforcing the Occupational Health and Safety Act in Victorian workplaces.
All employers have a duty under the OHS Act to provide a physically and mentally safe workplace for both their own workers and other people in the workplace.
Action taken when employers fall short of their obligations could include issuing improvement or prohibition notices or undertaking a comprehensive investigation to consider potential prosecution action.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/news/hawthorn-racism-review-worksafe-victoria-investigating-the-hawks-over-its-alleged-treatment-of-first-nations-players/news-story/2d3a8a00191df4a78b48822203f2b26b?amp

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

A good read. Tracey Holmes is highly respected sports journalist.

Judge, jury, executioner — the AFL's iron grip authority is being challenged

External pressure is rising on the AFL after the abuse allegations levelled against Hawthorn, writes Tracey Holmes, with the Federal Government watching developments closely.

www.abc.net.au

And….. white man says nothing to see here.

'They only ever wanted the best for me': Hodge throws support behind Hawthorn coaches

Three-time Hawks premiership skipper Luke Hodge backs his former Hawthorn coaches, as the AFL investigates allegations of racism.

www.abc.net.au

Holmes is as biased in this topic as anybody.

I don’t understand why a “ wide ranging” AFL investigation is required …..before actually verifying the truth in the hawthorn claims. She’s implicitly calling Clarkson guilty without trial.

 

[Cyclops]

WorkSafe investigating.

**** just got real. WorkSafe investigate bullying allegations, if players have had suicidal thoughts someone is going o get hit for 6. There's no presumption of innocence, organisations have to prove they are providing a safe environment, and the fines and prison terms are eye-watering.

Meanwhile Jeff Kennet is spouting off that there's no crisis and called the player "employees", clearly indicating he's The Boss and they just work there. he's a scumbag of the lowest order.

Worksafe was brought in by Unions and Labor to save the lives and health of workers. This Liberal dip**** may be about to get a union-made legal enema.