List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2022-->

[Anzacday]

Key dates attached so we know what’s going on when.

• Friday 30 September at 9.00am

• AFL Restricted Free Agency and Unrestricted Free Agency Period commences

Monday 03 October at 9.00am

• AFL Trade Period commences – Players & Selections

Friday 07 October at 5.00pm

• Close of AFL Restricted Free Agency Offer and Unrestricted Free Agency Period.

Monday 10 October

• AFL Draft Nominations open (9am)
• AFL Restricted Free Agency Matching Offer 3 Day Period Ends (5pm)

Wednesday 12 October at 7.30pm

• AFL Trade Period closes – players and selections

Thursday 03 November at 9.00am

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (1) commences

Wednesday 09 November at 5.00pm

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (1) closes

Friday 11 November at 9.00am

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (2) commences

Tuesday 15 November by 5.00pm

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (2) closes
• AFL Trade Period closes – selections only

Monday 21 November by 3.00pm

• AFL Draft Nominations close

Monday 28 November at 7.10pm

• 2022 AFL Draft Round One (Venue TBC)
• Father/Son, Academy & NGA and Players Bidding opens.

Tuesday 29 November

• AFL Trade Period – selections only (5.45pm to 6.30pm)
• 2022 AFL National Draft Round two until completion (7pm)
• Rookie Upgrade Period opens (10pm)
• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3) commences (10pm)
• Rookie Upgrade Period closes (11pm)
• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3) closes (11pm)

Wednesday 30 November

• AFL Pre-Season Draft (3pm, online)
• AFL Rookie Draft (3.20pm, online)

Thursday 01 December by 4.00pm

• Final AFL Club List Lodgement

 

[Fruit]

I’m bullish on the Tom Mitchell recruitment. I think we lack in the inside mid department and unfortunately Tay Adam’s body is letting him down more frequently.
Having someone like Tom Mitchell will help integrate players like Nick Daicos and Finn Macrae into the midfield and will also help players like Jack Crisp

25

Jack Crisp

Age

30

Ht

190cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.2

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

9.7

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

MG

307.6

4star

D

17.7

4star

K

10.7

4star

HB

7.0

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

3star

MG

307.6

4star

D

14.4

4star

K

8.4

4star

HB

6.0

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.0

5star

and JDG who can get on their bikes the second they see Tom over the ball.

 

[cakewalk06]

Treloar was an over priced spud. I think you’ll now find he that the Dogs are wondering how it all went pair shaped now that Dunkley is leaving their B&F and Treloar stays…..

The nuances of what my comment raised have escaped you. I enjoyed the Bullshit remark. It cut to the point…..

I’m sorry if you’re are one of those people who had Treloars number on your Dufflecoat and had to remove it. And possible now have to do the same with Grundy’s.

Don’t Panic though, I’m certain others will take up those numbers.


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Treloar was not overpaid and certainly not a spud. He signed from GWS at a huge trade cost in the end (2 x picks 7s) but his contract terms were reasonable for one of the best young midfielders in the league (at the time).

The reason he appears to be overpaid is that his salary was pushed back more than once so he ended up with around 300k a year still owing that should have been already paid to him in previous years. If you average out his salary over his career at Collingwood and WB it will be more like 700-750 a year than 900, which i think is about his correct worth.

But moving on to Grundy it's even more galling because we can't even blame back-ending for creating such a salary issue. We can blame the largesse of Eddie and his crew who were so blinded in the pursuit of the flag they did not consider what came afterward.

And they so nearly pulled it off. Would we care about any of this if we had have won the flag in 2018? I certainly would not.

I hate the idea of paying Grundy to play elsewhere.. and then having snivelling &%*s like Grand Slam Ralphy bring up Treloar and Grundy every chance they get for the next decade, while trying to disguise their glee and failing miserably.

There is no easy way out of this, though I personally hope the Jackson deal falls over and we end up ''stuck'' with Grundy. Maybe he can take a pay cut, open some sort business and we can use our huge numbers of supporters to back him in and more than make up for whatever cash he has lost. Has not Pendles done this with a gym? Did Didak do it with a sports store?

 

[Prexm]

I disagree that McStay can be separated from the Grundy situation.

If we were keeping Grundy and Cameron, McStay wouldn't be signed. Can't play them all and Mihocek as well. So McStay is clearly our Grundy replacement. Technically replacing Cameron who then replaces Grundy. But doesn't happen without McStay.

So the Grundy saving is Grundy's contract, minus McStay's, minus whatever we're still paying.

If we don't sign McStay and keep Grundy, we still have money to sign the end of list players you were talking about.

I'm not advocating keeping Grundy. The reason to move him though is because the new regime don't want so much money tied up in a ruck, they want a KPF instead. We may save some money, but not a large amount, and that's not the reason for the move, McStay is.

It’s not only wanting a KFP , it’s McStays versatility that appeals to them after listening to Wright yesterday. Can be moved down back during a game and can compete in the ruck like he did in that final for Brisbane. Grundy can only play in the ruck.

 

[jimmy35]

If the backended contract rumours are true and we pay 300k out of 1.2m in the last few years then I can understand the cap flexibility a bit more. Only good thing about rumours though was the Fleetwood Mac album.

 

[NMBB]

Treloar was not overpaid and certainly not a spud. He signed from GWS at a huge trade cost in the end (2 x picks 7s) but his contract terms were reasonable for one of the best young midfielders in the league (at the time).

The reason he appears to be overpaid is that his salary was pushed back more than once so he ended up with around 300k a year still owing that should have been already paid to him in previous years. If you average out his salary over his career at Collingwood and WB it will be more like 700-750 a year than 900, which i think is about his correct worth.

But moving on to Grundy it's even more galling because we can't even blame back-ending for creating such a salary issue. We can blame the largesse of Eddie and his crew who were so blinded in the pursuit of the flag they did not consider what came afterward.

And they so nearly pulled it off. Would we care about any of this if we had have won the flag in 2018? I certainly would not.

I hate the idea of paying Grundy to play elsewhere.. and then having snivelling &%*s like Grand Slam Ralphy bring up Treloar and Grundy every chance they get for the next decade, while trying to disguise their glee and failing miserably.

There is no easy way out of this, though I personally hope the Jackson deal falls over and we end up ''stuck'' with Grundy. Maybe he can take a pay cut, open some sort business and we can use our huge numbers of supporters to back him in and more than make up for whatever cash he has lost. Has not Pendles done this with a gym? Did Didak do it with a sports store?

At one stage think Didak had some sort of 2nd hand / $2 shop in East Kew - can't be 100% sure as don't have 1st hand knowledge of the 2nd hand shop.

 

[DasItMayne]

Grundy unpinned this tweet.

 

[Ugene41]

It’s not only wanting a KFP , it’s McStays versatility that appeals to them after listening to Wright yesterday. Can be moved down back during a game and can compete in the ruck like he did in that final for Brisbane. Grundy can only play in the ruck.

It's easy to be versatile when you're an average player and your expected output is low. Sure we can throw McStay down back but do we expect him to hold Tom Lynch goalless? We'll probably think it's a win if he keeps Lynch to 4 goals.

Grundy can easily play forward if his expected output is to match McStay's 10 disposal 1 goal average return. It's just that we expect Grundy to match his premier ruck output.

 

[lenny20]

Grundy can easily play forward if his expected output is to match McStay's 10 disposal 1 goal average return. It's just that we expect Grundy to match his premier ruck output.

I'm not big on the McStay recruitment at all, but Dan's got Brodie covered every day of the week in terms of forward capabilities.

And again, I'm not the biggest McStay fan. It's just that Brodes has proven he's a first ruck and not much else. His forward craft and contested marking are not his strong points.

 

[Juan Ide]

Based on reports the only player movement linked to us that seems to be dependent on Grundy going is Titch. Hill, Frampton McStay and Frampton will all happen (or already have in the case of Hill) regardless of whether Demons and Pies find a deal for Grundy (which itself is dependent on the Jackson trade happening).

We're now going to be trading in TWO Framptons? A bold call, my friend! Is the second one Billy's evil twin brother or will it be the 70s rock star, do you reckon?

 

[LuckyLee]

It's easy to be versatile when you're an average player and your expected output is low. Sure we can throw McStay down back but do we expect him to hold Tom Lynch goalless? We'll probably think it's a win if he keeps Lynch to 4 goals.

Grundy can easily play forward if his expected output is to match McStay's 10 disposal 1 goal average return. It's just that we expect Grundy to match his premier ruck output.

Divorces are painful and expensive but the reality is that Grundy is gone and we’re going to get less than fair value when the final settlement is reached. It sucks that our previous list managers created this disaster but we need to move on.


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[jonbe54]

I'm not big on the McStay recruitment at all, but Dan's got Brodie covered every day of the week in terms of forward capabilities.

And again, I'm not the biggest McStay fan. It's just that Brodes has proven he's a first ruck and not much else. His forward craft and contested marking ability are not his strong points.

With his ordinary contested marking Brodes is really a giant ruck rover in the old school terms.

 

[lenny20]

This encapsulates why the club needs to move Grundy on. In that game as a full time ruck Grundy had 17 disposals at 53% and 2 uncontested marks. This was against Marshall, who would be on closer to half his wage, and a rookie debutant who kicked 3 goals and polled a Brownlow vote. A game like that Grundy should have absolutely dominated but we've come to appreciate a break even at best.

This is the Grundy situation in a nutshell for me - still a good player, but ever since COVID happened, it's become pretty commonplace that he breaks even in his ruck duels.

A first-gamer on base wage was the best ruckman on the ground in that Saints game, even though Brodie played pretty well. That's a lot of wasted capital for a middling result. I suspect the club sees it the same way, which is why he's being moved on.

 

[jonbe54]

This is the Grundy situation in a nutshell for me - still a good player, but ever since COVID happened, it's become pretty commonplace that he breaks even in his ruck duels.

A first-gamer on base wage was the best ruckman on the ground in that Saints game, even though Brodie played pretty well. That's a lot of wasted capital for a middling result. I suspect the club sees it the same way, which is why he's being moved on.

Something certainly changed Brodes attitude during Covid he hasn't been the same player since the hubs.

 

[BEEG]

I’m bullish on the Tom Mitchell recruitment. I think we lack in the inside mid department and unfortunately Tay Adam’s body is letting him down more frequently.
Having someone like Tom Mitchell will help integrate players like Nick Daicos and Finn Macrae into the midfield and will also help players like Jack Crisp and JDG who can get on their bikes the second they see Tom over the ball.

It would be a huge get and the bloke has a point to prove.

Give him a role of getting the ball out to Crisp, Maynard, Degoey, Daicos etc and watch him shine.

 

[Ugene41]

Divorces are painful and expensive but the reality is that Grundy is gone and we’re going to get less than fair value when the final settlement is reached. It sucks that our previous list managers created this disaster but we need to move on.


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It's easy to just heap all the blame on the previous list managers. I agree they were rubbish. But to just blindly accept everything the current list management department is doing is strange. Why are they not up for critic, especially when there's so many similarities with the moves they're currently making to what previous list management has done that everyone is now universally panning?

 

[cakewalk06]

Something certainly changed Brodes attitude during Covid he hasn't been the same player since the hubs.

I firmly believe he can still be a weapon of a player but one thing i think has not helped him in anyway is the 6-6-6. The ball pings out too fast a lot of the time for his strength over the ball to be utilised. In a high-pressure final though he could be worth his weight in gold.

 

[Rusty Beam]

Andrew Mackie coming up on Trade Radio. No doubt will keep playing down their interest in Henry, wait and see.

Spot on. Supposedly he pursued them.

Trying to portray themselves as an unenthusiastic buyer, despite Wells having a hard on for Ollie in his draft year.

 

[3rdMan]

I don't see the Grundy situation being so much about contract. At this point a digestible contract would be around $800k. We still wouldn't want that. Our preference is an ordinary ruck at around $500k. That's not Grundy.

If we were a club that valued a quality ruck who'd win us clearances, we would keep him at his current salary, possibly a small pay cut (which he apparently is taking).

The reason we're desperate to move him on is that a quality ruck is not part of the game plan. Not a fault with Grundy or a fault with the contract, just a different footy philosophy.

 

[lenny20]

Something certainly changed Brodes attitude during Covid he hasn't been the same player since the hubs.

There was a post somewhere in these many thousands of posts that mentioned some insider info about how the COVID lockdowns really messed up his mental health, and, as a result, footballing performance.

Now that we're post-COVID, it wouldn't surprise me if he turns it around and performs really strongly next season, especially with the motivation of proving Collingwood wrong.

But as you mentioned in an earlier post, his best attributes have always been the atypical stuff for a ruckman - follow-up work, tackling, winning the ball at ground level rather than in the air - making him more of a giant ruck-rover. And I think we're moving away from that style and asking our big men to give a contest in the air rather than link up around the ground.

 

[jonbe54]

There was a post somewhere in these many thousands of posts that mentioned some insider info about how the COVID lockdowns really messed up his mental health, and, as a result, footballing performance.

Now that we're post-COVID, it wouldn't surprise me if he turns it around and performs really strongly next season, especially with the motivation of proving Collingwood wrong.

But as you mentioned in an earlier post, his best attributes have always been the atypical stuff for a ruckman - follow-up work, tackling, winning possessions at ground level rather than in the air - making him more of a giant ruck-rover. And I think we're moving away from that style and asking our big men to give a contest in the air rather than link up around the ground.

The other factor is that every player at every club knows how to rove to him - unless he goes to a club with an immensely strong midfield he will always be a millstone around their necks.

 

[Bramax]

I don't see the Grundy situation being so much about contract. At this point a digestible contract would be around $800k. We still wouldn't want that. Our preference is an ordinary ruck at around $500k. That's not Grundy.

If we were a club that valued a quality ruck who'd win us clearances, we would keep him at his current salary, possibly a small pay cut (which he apparently is taking).

The reason we're desperate to move him on is that a quality ruck is not part of the game plan. Not a fault with Grundy or a fault with the contract, just a different footy philosophy.

I had only heard it reported that he wasn’t prepared to take a haircut?

 

[No SPIN]

I won’t spoil those games for you. But will let you know. We went on an 11-0 run after the Bulldogs game and played some of the most exhilarating football any of us had seen for decades or even ever. All the way to a Preliminary Final.

All without the help of Grundy.

Good luck watching the early games. They were……..I’ll let you watch. I saw enough.


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Such absurd logic - we also did it without Mitchell/Frampton/Hill/Fiorini.
Does that mean we shouldn’t recruit these guys?

Clearly they all improve us just like Grundy.

 

[loki04]

If Grundy entered the draft this year?
being paid as a 1st year draftee, as a 28-29 year old?
I'd say yes your correct. Gone by pick 10.

But given he wouldn't be paid as a 1st year draftee....So what do you think he'd command if he "entered the draft?"
I'd say he'd be 10+. Probably 20+ (see luke ball).
PS. pick 17 is what he was taken at when he was 18......

What is his contract worth FA wise?
Is this if we weren't paying him overs? or as it stands?

750K over 4-5 years is probs end of first. i.e. 20ish.

600K (if we're paying 300) over 4 years.....band 2.
Whatever Bris get for McStay is probably ballpark.
So thats about an end of second round pick....

The rest of your comments are just that.

So explain how any of that suggests we are "getting reamed"?

We got reamed when we signed his ludicrous contract.

His contract is ludicrous but we made that bed. Now we either lie in it with a very good player or we get proper value from him leaving. Taking unders because you free up a bit of coin is not a good outcome.

No mate he'd be gone by pick 10 even with a proper value contract on his head of 750-800k like Gawns contract.

Lol he went at 18 when he was first drafted because he posed a risk and rucks at that stage were out of favour as an early selection.

He is a proven player now not an 18 year old fair dinkum.

I'm not talking about fa compo with that price, but since you want to lets look at the other secret herbs and spices to that formula. BnF results, AA, awards, role, mcstay is getting a 2nd as a role playing KPF (which I'm quite happy to be getting mind you). Grundy is a better player then Mcstay.
Grundy is being seriously devalued on here to protect the club image in people's minds...

Luke Ball was coming with a broken body, he had to rehab and get himself right saints battered him into the ground.
Grundy even given his injuries last year is not a broken player.

 

[No SPIN]

Our current coaches are not going to play McStay, Mihocek, Grundy, Cameron in the same team. Clearly we know that the Grundy trade will be done.

Nope. One of Cox or Cameron will play VFL as was planned after trading Lynch.
You forget we had 4 Ruckman on the list at one time.

 

[JuniorB]

If the backended contract rumours are true and we pay 300k out of 1.2m in the last few years then I can understand the cap flexibility a bit more. Only good thing about rumours though was the Fleetwood Mac album.

According to The Age Grundy's contract is less in the last couple of years.
Either someone is wrong or everyone is guessing.