List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2022--> PART 2

[Gone Critical]

I have a feeling they are going to poach mature cheap rucks.
Like Richmond did with Nankervis after failing for years with Grigg, ditto dogs tried and failed for years with non kpp height rucks.
Modern Coaches seemingly don't rate the role until their hands are forced into making the call that a bigman is a requirement normally a physical one.

For example off the top of my head...

2007 Ottens to pair with king.
2010 Jolly
2016 Stopped playing midfield sized players and at least played 200cm Roughead and 199cm Boyd in ruck.
2017 Nankervis

Not sure you have the Grigg story right. The only year he ever played ruck at any level was when he combined with Nank in 2017 and they won a flag. An outstanding success.

 

[TakingThePies]

I'm not as confident about the strength of our mid-field:
Mitchell: he's elite, huge fan and anticipate that he'll be the general
Adams: he's one or two rungs below Mitchell due to his injury history and can be inconsistent with his kicking - needs to be on managed time
Sidebottom: great outside runner who is a part-time mid-field option at best
Pendlebury: waning mid-field legend - needs to be on managed time. Anticipate he'll spend more time across half back than on-the-ball
JDG: awesome burst player, more a forward/mid than a pure midfielder due to a lack of a tank
Jaics: very good outside run - a lock for a wing
Lipinski: very good outside runner, needs to show more to be considered a starting mid-fielder
Carmichael: outsider runner, needs to work on his disposal by hand and needs to show more to be considered a starting mid-fielder
Crisp: awesome run and carry player, would like to see him a little stronger in the contest - reckon he's best position is off half back
WHE: great two way runner, not sure he's a lock for our best side
Naics: emerging superstar, we need him in the guts as a pure on-baller. I anticipate he'll be our preferred option for the kick into F50

We really need one of the emerging talents to take some big steps (I'd include Reef there too) for our mid-field to be competitive with the best, many of our very good mid-field options are able to sustain limited time due to their tank or age. Our talent drops always really quickly and whilst there's a number of options to run through the mid-field, I'd suggest we're one quality pure mid-fielder short.

So much wrong with pretty much all that.

 

[RobJD]

So much wrong with pretty much all that.

It's just an opinion - care to elaborate on yours?

 

[jonbe54]

I'm not as confident about the strength of our mid-field:
Mitchell: he's elite, huge fan and anticipate that he'll be the general
Adams: he's one or two rungs below Mitchell due to his injury history and can be inconsistent with his kicking - needs to be on managed time
Sidebottom: great outside runner who is a part-time mid-field option at best
Pendlebury: waning mid-field legend - needs to be on managed time. Anticipate he'll spend more time across half back than on-the-ball
JDG: awesome burst player, more a forward/mid than a pure midfielder due to a lack of a tank
Jaics: very good outside run - a lock for a wing
Lipinski: very good outside runner, needs to show more to be considered a starting mid-fielder
Carmichael: outsider runner, needs to work on his disposal by hand and needs to show more to be considered a starting mid-fielder
Crisp: awesome run and carry player, would like to see him a little stronger in the contest - reckon he's best position is off half back
WHE: great two way runner, not sure he's a lock for our best side
Naics: emerging superstar, we need him in the guts as a pure on-baller. I anticipate he'll be our preferred option for the kick into F50

We really need one of the emerging talents to take some big steps (I'd include Reef there too) for our mid-field to be competitive with the best, many of our very good mid-field options are able to sustain limited time due to their tank or age. Our talent drops always really quickly and whilst there's a number of options to run through the mid-field, I'd suggest we're one quality pure mid-fielder short.

In regards to Crispie . . .

How much run and carry would he have to sacrifice to be more of a contested bull?

It's always a trade-off between speed and strength once you get to a certain level.

 

[ramalamabama]

I'd argue Cox is the better ruck of the 2, Cameron the better forward.

Both in form I suspect you're right, maybe being so interchangeable is an advantage over a gun ruck and a s**t truck

 

[Matrix10]

Yes, it's the Tier 2 that concerns me, there's nothing elite about that group.

Your kidding. Pendlebury not elite. WTF. GOAT. And still the player that is the main man setting up the crucial plays.

 

[loki04]

Not sure you have the Grigg story right. The only year he ever played ruck at any level was when he combined with Nank in 2017 and they won a flag. An outstanding success.

He was doing it the year before Iirc and Richmond were losing games because of it.

Even when he went into the ruck with Nank Richmond would lose momentum everytime.

They were a much better team without him in that role.

 

[JuniorB]

In regards to Crispie . . .

How much run and carry would he have to sacrifice to be more of a contested bull?

It's always a trade-off between speed and strength once you get to a certain level.

Given he's won the last two Copelands, he should probably keep doing what he's doing, on the "if it ain't broke" principle.

 

[ramalamabama]

Given he's won the last two Copelands, he should probably keep doing what he's doing, on the "if it ain't broke" principle.

What a recruit, I think we got De Goey from that deal as well, if only we hadn't gone back to the well for Beams again it was the trade of the century

 

[Soups]

It's just an opinion - care to elaborate on yours?

Please don’t encourage.

 

[JuniorB]

What a recruit, I think we got De Goey from that deal as well, if only we hadn't gone back to the well for Beams again it was the trade of the century

Yeah, getting Beams back was a disaster. Crispy's been fantastic & De Goey's best is great - his challenge is to do it consistently.

 

[KinderSmock]

Begg wont be your #1 ruck clearly, but they are grooming him for the forward/ruck position from what Ive seen.

I still don't think he has enough to do that effectively.

 

[jonbe54]

Given he's won the last two Copelands, he should probably keep doing what he's doing, on the "if it ain't broke" principle.

Amen

 

[Jen2310]

I still don't think he has enough to do that effectively.

We can only hope, given he is a raw developing prospect. Lets see how it pans out.
I know that the coaches really rate his ruck work.

 

[Gone Critical]

He was doing it the year before Iirc and Richmond were losing games because of it.

Even when he went into the ruck with Nank Richmond would lose momentum everytime.

They were a much better team without him in that role.

He wasnt.

1st time was round 2 2017 against us. Ben Griffiths went down with concussion in 1st Q and never played again. Dimma threw Grigg into the ruck and kept doing it for the rest of the season. It had limitations but was pretty successful.

I met Grigg that year and saw him regularly during that season so got to talk to him about it a bit. Up until round 2 2017 he had never played a moment of ruck from tackers upwards. It was a gutsy move by Dimma.

 

[Gone Critical]

What a recruit, I think we got De Goey from that deal as well, if only we hadn't gone back to the well for Beams again it was the trade of the century

Greenwood also

 

[Bianconeri]

He wasnt.

1st time was round 2 2017 against us. Ben Griffiths went down with concussion in 1st Q and never played again. Dimma threw Grigg into the ruck and kept doing it for the rest of the season. It had limitations but was pretty successful.

I met Grigg that year and saw him regularly during that season so got to talk to him about it a bit. Up until round 2 2017 he had never played a moment of ruck from tackers upwards. It was a gutsy move by Dimma.

When was the third man up banned from ruck contests?

Because Grigg recorded 26 hit outs in 2016

 

[Jen2310]

When was the third man up banned from ruck contests?

Because Grigg recorded 26 hit outs in 2016

end of 2016 it was changed

'Third man up' banned in radical rule change

Ruckmen get protection as AFL delivers a radical rule change

www.afl.com.au

 

[Gone Critical]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DpC5tAeFs-HY&ved=2ahUKEwjwp6j-1dD8AhWu7jgGHWqjBGgQwqsBegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw3YW8IZHKW9FUBHySgSqdmI

 

[loki04]

He wasnt.

1st time was round 2 2017 against us. Ben Griffiths went down with concussion in 1st Q and never played again. Dimma threw Grigg into the ruck and kept doing it for the rest of the season. It had limitations but was pretty successful.

I met Grigg that year and saw him regularly during that season so got to talk to him about it a bit. Up until round 2 2017 he had never played a moment of ruck from tackers upwards. It was a gutsy move by Dimma.

Imo they won a flag inspite of it not because of it, they often lost large momentum swings when he went into the ruck.

Not a knock on him as he is out of his league but I am not a fan of deliberately losing the ruck to run another mid.

They did it because they were backing in their defence driving the ball back into attack rather then midfield.

 

[sr36]

I'm not as confident about the strength of our mid-field:
Mitchell: he's elite, huge fan and anticipate that he'll be the general
Adams: he's one or two rungs below Mitchell due to his injury history and can be inconsistent with his kicking - needs to be on managed time
Sidebottom: great outside runner who is a part-time mid-field option at best
Pendlebury: waning mid-field legend - needs to be on managed time. Anticipate he'll spend more time across half back than on-the-ball
JDG: awesome burst player, more a forward/mid than a pure midfielder due to a lack of a tank
Jaics: very good outside run - a lock for a wing
Lipinski: very good outside runner, needs to show more to be considered a starting mid-fielder
Carmichael: outsider runner, needs to work on his disposal by hand and needs to show more to be considered a starting mid-fielder
Crisp: awesome run and carry player, would like to see him a little stronger in the contest - reckon he's best position is off half back
WHE: great two way runner, not sure he's a lock for our best side
Naics: emerging superstar, we need him in the guts as a pure on-baller. I anticipate he'll be our preferred option for the kick into F50

We really need one of the emerging talents to take some big steps (I'd include Reef there too) for our mid-field to be competitive with the best, many of our very good mid-field options are able to sustain limited time due to their tank or age. Our talent drops always really quickly and whilst there's a number of options to run through the mid-field, I'd suggest we're one quality pure mid-fielder short.

I'm more bullish. I view midfield as having three components - getting your hands on it at stoppage, bursting run and general play linking. The addition of Mitchell and Naicos likely to join means that as a group, we have elite capabilities in all three components.

 

[Jen2310]

repeat of what we know really.

Collingwood​

With Brodie Grundy being traded to Melbourne in October, the Magpies are trialling West Adelaide ruckman Oscar Steene across the summer to add to their ruck stocks. The 19-year-old has trained with the club since the start of the pre-season in December and has impressed in match simulation.

Collingwood is also looking at former Gold Coast and Richmond defender Oleg Markov having invited the 51-gamer to train with them after he was overlooked in the Rookie Draft. Markov was coached by Craig McRae and Justin Leppitsch during his time at Punt Road and was considered unlucky to depart Metricon Stadium in the off-season.

The players training for an AFL lifeline this off-season

A TikTok star from Perth, a VAFA gun defender and a delisted Cat are among those training with AFL clubs this summer in the hope of earning a contract

www.afl.com.au

 

[Quicky]

Yes, it's the Tier 2 that concerns me, there's nothing elite about that group.

I reckon that tier 2 looks pretty strong.

 

[sr36]

Yes, it's the Tier 2 that concerns me, there's nothing elite about that group.

What team has elite players in their second string mids? Ours look really strong to me. And elite in terms of linking.

 

[sr36]

Not sure you have the Grigg story right. The only year he ever played ruck at any level was when he combined with Nank in 2017 and they won a flag. An outstanding success.

Wasn't he doing it in 2018, when Grundy took their second ruck to the cleaners by just bashing it forward in the prelim. Or was that some other undersized sacrificial lamb.