sr36
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Inside the team, we're really strong in that area, but outside the team last year had only Ruscoe in the VFL. Probably depends on whether Richards and Ryan are serious options as to whether we need additional depth.
List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2022--> PART 2
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RobJD
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We need a lot more running backs than rucks - as I see it, we need at least 3 running backs on the ground at any time (say Maynard, IQ, Naics) then we need an additional running back in the side as interchange to give the running backs a breather (say Noble). We may also need one backup for game day injury cover (say Pendles as the 23rd man). So the minimum is 4 running backs versus a minimum of one ruckman. Assuming that a running back is just as likely to incur and injury as a ruckman, then there's much more likelihood that one of the four running backs will get injured than there is that single ruck will get injured. So, on the list, we need greater injury coverage for the running back role - at least one first 18 ready running back (say Ruscoe) as cover for a short term injury and another first 18 ready/capable to cover for long term injuries (Richards?/Bianco?/Markov?). Then you need a number of emerging/developing candidates - I'd say at least two (Allen and Ryan). For the ruck, we've got two first 18 candidates - and Begg. Both positions are potentially exposed by long term injury - I see the decision between a running back and a ruck as line-ball - we just need to choose our poison.
Disagree with this, I think our running back stocks are loaded, unless we want to raid the backs to bolster the midfield a la Crisp. I think Maynard and IQ should get more time up the ground. But even then some of the seniors will just rest in the back line ( Pendles, Crisp, WHE). Any more and I think we are carrying an unbalanced list.
The only way you take Markov is if he’s a better option than the rucks available…from what I’ve read the rucks on offer have some potential. So I give them a go.
Love watching Naughton go about it, has a bit of the old school pack busting forward to him.
Kreuger also displays similar traits in the air contest but body doesn't hold up like Naughton nor does he get his hands to the ball as often or well.
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Our midfield stocks are also pretty healthy.
Mitchell, Adams, Sidebottom, Pendlebury, JDG, Josh Daicos, Lipinski, Carmichael (based on his pre-season, he's more than ready to be a regular in the AFL), Crisp and WHE. Throw in the emerging talents of Macrae, Draper, Harrison and Allen - it's quite a strong core so you almost need to play Daicos, IQ and Maynard at HB to fit everyone on the park.
I have a feeling they are going to poach mature cheap rucks.
Like Richmond did with Nankervis after failing for years with Grigg, ditto dogs tried and failed for years with non kpp height rucks.
Modern Coaches seemingly don't rate the role until their hands are forced into making the call that a bigman is a requirement normally a physical one.
For example off the top of my head...
2007 Ottens to pair with king.
2010 Jolly
2016 Stopped playing midfield sized players and at least played 200cm Roughead and 199cm Boyd in ruck.
2017 Nankervis
Jen2310
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Wonder if steene has gone favourite now. Begg didn’t train today and Cameron left the track early, went to get scans possibly.
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If your looking at 2023 in isolation rather then developing for the future then you may make that choice.
It depends on if one or all of those 3 I listed can improve the team more by playing midfield and having others match the HB requirements. I don't think all 3 will be moved at once but they may all get a rotation through there at some stage.
Our midfield esp at center bounces was smashed regularly so not sure how good as a group they actually are.
Sidey, Pendles won't be around forever.
Pendles already spending time away from the midfield.
Sidey could also be a high half forward role in his last years.
WHE is not a mid imo more a winger/hhf.
Not sure if Mitchell and Adams will spend much on ball time together 1 will either go forward or rotate of bench.
Macrae, Draper, Allen and Harrison need to show consistency at VFL level first.
Degoey is one you missed, will get time in there as well.
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Jen2310
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Training with the VFL squad last I saw. He not on the list yet so can play VFL so part of that program. Is sometimes seen in the light sessions
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I could see us trying to poach a cheap/mature ruck.
Teams with 4+ ruckman on their list:
Hawthorn: Reeves, Ramsden, Meek, Lynch
Brisbane: Fort, Fullarton, Mcinerney,Smith
Geelong: Conway, Ceglar, Stanley, Blicavs, Foster
GWS: Preuss, Madden, Briggs, Flynn
North: Edwards, CCJ, Goldstein, Xerri, Comben
Port: Treakle, Hayes, Lycett, Visenitini/ Marshall and Finlayson
Richmond: Colina, Ryan, Soldo, Nankervis
Saints: Heath, Campbell, Marshall, Hayes
Swans: McAndrew, Owen, Ladhams, Hickey (and a few ruck/forwards)
Eagles: Barnett, Nic Nat, Jamieson, Williams
Dogs: Lobb, Darcy, English & Sweet
We just need one of these players in the reserves to have a good season and request a trade. I could see a North, Hawks, GWS or Port ruckman requesting a trade.
Teams with 4+ ruckman on their list:
Hawthorn: Reeves, Ramsden, Meek, Lynch
Brisbane: Fort, Fullarton, Mcinerney,Smith
Geelong: Conway, Ceglar, Stanley, Blicavs, Foster
GWS: Preuss, Madden, Briggs, Flynn
North: Edwards, CCJ, Goldstein, Xerri, Comben
Port: Treakle, Hayes, Lycett, Visenitini/ Marshall and Finlayson
Richmond: Colina, Ryan, Soldo, Nankervis
Saints: Heath, Campbell, Marshall, Hayes
Swans: McAndrew, Owen, Ladhams, Hickey (and a few ruck/forwards)
Eagles: Barnett, Nic Nat, Jamieson, Williams
Dogs: Lobb, Darcy, English & Sweet
We just need one of these players in the reserves to have a good season and request a trade. I could see a North, Hawks, GWS or Port ruckman requesting a trade.
RobJD
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I'm not as confident about the strength of our mid-field:
Mitchell: he's elite, huge fan and anticipate that he'll be the general
Adams: he's one or two rungs below Mitchell due to his injury history and can be inconsistent with his kicking - needs to be on managed time
Sidebottom: great outside runner who is a part-time mid-field option at best
Pendlebury: waning mid-field legend - needs to be on managed time. Anticipate he'll spend more time across half back than on-the-ball
JDG: awesome burst player, more a forward/mid than a pure midfielder due to a lack of a tank
Jaics: very good outside run - a lock for a wing
Lipinski: very good outside runner, needs to show more to be considered a starting mid-fielder
Carmichael: outsider runner, needs to work on his disposal by hand and needs to show more to be considered a starting mid-fielder
Crisp: awesome run and carry player, would like to see him a little stronger in the contest - reckon he's best position is off half back
WHE: great two way runner, not sure he's a lock for our best side
Naics: emerging superstar, we need him in the guts as a pure on-baller. I anticipate he'll be our preferred option for the kick into F50
We really need one of the emerging talents to take some big steps (I'd include Reef there too) for our mid-field to be competitive with the best, many of our very good mid-field options are able to sustain limited time due to their tank or age. Our talent drops always really quickly and whilst there's a number of options to run through the mid-field, I'd suggest we're one quality pure mid-fielder short.
Fat Jesus
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Agree With Adams. Disposal often woeful.
Mitchell and Nick in the midfield could be a devastating combo.
Adams to do less of the hard work may lift his game.
ramalamabama
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Depth is excellent and yeah a kid stepping up and becoming elite would top us off nicely
Tier 1:
Cameron De Goey Crisp
J Daicos Mitchell N Daicos
Tier 2:
Cox Pendlebury Adams
WHE Lipinski Sidebottom
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RobJD
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Yes, it's the Tier 2 that concerns me, there's nothing elite about that group.
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Pendelbury's not elite?
No club in the AFL has 23 elite players as part of their weekly side. They have a mix of elite, good, average, rookies and smokeys.
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Our goal for 2023 should be the flag. We should stop looking to the "future" and concentrate on delivering a 16th flag. Geelong did this and it worked. We can't keep bemoaning about development as we have the list to target a flag NOW. I hate the idea of a full rebuild or prioritising youth or finding a perfect balance. Our plan should be to do whatever it takes (within the rules) to clinch that cup and maybe another one for good measure. If we're not prepared to target a flag, then what are we doing? What's the point of bringing in Mitchell?
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Target Hayes at Port again. Or look to the Eagles with Barnett.
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Begg isn't a ruck prospect ... we should end that idea now. If Cameron's injured, then best of luck to Cox. At least Steene has played against men and held himself, although I wouldn't have thought he's AFL ready.
RobJD
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Pendles is clearly still capable of elite level efforts across a game (Sidey too) - I wouldn't rate him among the mid-fielders who can perform at an elite level across an entire game, and that, to me is the issue with our mid-field, we possible have just one (Titch) who is capable of a elite level performance across an entire game. JDG is great as a forward who spends some time in the mid-field as a burst player, but he simply doesn't have the tank to execute the mid-field role across an entire game. Adams doesn't seem to have the physical attributes to sustain a mid-field role consistently. So we're thin on the ground for mid-fielders who can sustain elite levels. We rely on pinch-hitters who can fill in there, but rarely provide elite level efforts, as a result our mid-field performance wanes. Ideally, someone like Reef would be able to step up and provide the same burst effort that JDG provides - that would allow our burst effort to be extended. If Naics can step into the mid-field for an extended time then I'd anticipate he'll provide an elite level performance, and turn our mid-field into one that can deliver an elite level across a game. And by an entire game, I'm not suggesting that any mid-fielder spends 100% of the game on the ground, just that for the vast majority of the game, they play the mid-field role.
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