Have Geelong become too powerful?

[PhatBoy]

Yeah I miscalculated how many good seasons he had. I still think West Coast paid overs for him.

Yeah look they probably did but as far as miscalculations go they probably made one in terms of where their team was. If their side was as good as they thought it was still poised to be, he might well have proven to still be a very good investment. Unfortunately for them they were well past that point and a player who still had a bit to offer joined a sinking ship and though his output was good for a while, it’s certainly dropped off in the last 2 seasons as it’s become increasingly obvious that he’s fighting a losing battle in that midfield

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Yeah I miscalculated how many good seasons he had. I still think West Coast paid overs for him.

I think there's a bit of post hoc assessment there too. They gave up picks that became:

Cooper Stephens
Jeremy Sharp
Nick Bryan
Ryan Anguin

 

[Footy Smarts]

Yeah I miscalculated how many good seasons he had. I still think West Coast paid overs for him.

Similar to Richmond recruiting Taranto. Neither really overpaid but both massively misjudged where their lists were at meaning their investment wasn't worth it.

I wonder if Taranto's performance drops off like Kelly did once he'd been worn down by playing in a shit team.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Can't think of a team that has brought in so many stars whilst giving up so little.

Which "stars" have we really brought in?

Danger, Cameron and Bailey Smith. That's about it.

Martin and Stengle were delisted free agents. Bowes was a salary dump. Stanley is a good player but no star, we gave up fair value for him.

Most others in recent years have been free agents, or blokes like Rohan who were expected to be nothing more than role players.

 

[randyzany]

Because we run the CFL.

Derrrr.

What's the C in CFL stand for? I asked this a few backs in another thread and nobody seemed to know. Is it Corrupt Football League, Cat Football League, Collingwood Football League, etc...?

 

[Wojcinski]

Can't think of a team that has brought in so many stars whilst giving up so little.

Can't be thinking very hard then

 

[randyzany]

Ok champ. A flash in the pan midfielder who had one good season.

Nobody told the Weagles to do the deal. In fact they should have taught Kelly a lesson and showed no interest in him and in the process given him and his wife an opportunity an appreciate the opportunity Geelong had presented them with. Instead even before he had filled his locker, 10 weeks into his first season being a rookie more or less, he was already asking out. The sheer audacity of that; not even a bonafide superstar flog like Judd had the temerity to that. He paid his dues with the Weagles, played 7 years for them and repaid them with a flag and then asked to be traded back to Melbourne.

 

[randyzany]

Yeah I miscalculated how many good seasons he had. I still think West Coast paid overs for him.

Kelly is an outside mid that needs protection from quality inside mids which for some reason the Weagles ended up lacking in the subsequent years Kelly played there.

 

[PhatBoy]

Nobody told the Weagles to do the deal. In fact they should have taught Kelly a lesson and showed no interest in him and in the process given him and his wife an opportunity an appreciate the opportunity Geelong had presented them with. Instead even before he had filled his locker, 10 weeks into his first season being a rookie more or less, he was already asking out. The sheer audacity of that; not even a bonafide superstar flog like Judd had the temerity to that. He paid his dues with the Weagles, played 7 years for them and repaid them with a flag and then asked to be traded back to Melbourne.

Sorry I can’t cop that.

You don’t know what his personal circumstance was. For all you know from the moment he got home from training each day he had his missus in his ear telling him she wanted to go home or she was taking the kids and leaving him. No one truly knows. He could have had family back home badgering him about it. He could have had issues with a player in the team.

Leave the personal judgement out of it.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Yeah it’s amazing that a player who had just finished fifth at the Brownlow and was named all Australian and was in his footballing prime could be considered worth more than a player who hadn’t kicked a football in 18 months and who’s biggest accolade was being named in an arbitrary team called ‘22 under 22.’

You realise that smith needs to finish top 4 tonight to beat what Kelly did, and even then, smith was brought in having never actually achieved anything

People will laugh, but I'd argue that at the time, people would have seen a Tim Kelly for Jeremy Cameron trade as a pretty fair swap.

The other interesting change in public perception that I've noted over the past couple of years is Chris Scott seeming to be generally accepted by the media to be the best coach in the league, like everyone just seems to accept that Bontempelli is the best player. Clarkson and Hardwick are still coaching, McRae and Fagan have had their teams in contention practically since taking over, Mitchell and Kingsley have taken sides that looked to be in no man's land and made them contenders. I'm not saying I disagree; it's just strange to me how this stuff works that everyone says Chris Scott is the best coach, basically because everyone else says he is. I'm not sure if this has happened since the 2022 flag, or more recently, since 2024/25, but he certainly wasn't considered the consensus best coach in the league 3-4 years ago.

 

[morsie]

Geelong are clearly no 1 at finding diamonds in the rough

 

[randyzany]

Sorry I can’t cop that.

You don’t know what his personal circumstance was. For all you know from the moment he got home from training each day he had his missus in his ear telling him she wanted to go home or she was taking the kids and leaving him. No one truly knows. He could have had family back home badgering him about it. He could have had issues with a player in the team.

Leave the personal judgement out of it.

It's called the AUSTRALIAN Football League. If Kelly and Co weren't prepared to move (odds 2 teams in WA out of 18) then he should've have stuck playing semi pro/amateur footy in Perth, picked up a trade/profession where he didn't have to leave Perth or wherever he was comfortable with. It reiterate he made a choice to play AFL, nobody put a gun to his head and forced him to do it.

Football clubs are not Maccas franchises that you can pick and choose wherever hell you feel like being at. The draft is there for a reason, all clubs need roughly equal access to talent as an attempt to keep the league as healthy and even as possible (even though the flogs at the AFL are currently doing their best to supercharge the QLD and NSW soulless franchises in the pursuit of lucre) and any flog that tries to circumvent that has no sympathy from me.

It is a choice he made by putting up his hand for the AFL draft. Nobody owes an player the right to play wherever they feel like, not in the first few year at least. And if that's the case get rid of the draft as it is pointless and let clubs attract talent without restrictions. As long as the draft is there I'll always demand that it'd be respected, it's not that hard.

Plenty families have husbands that spend significant amount of time working interstate or even overseas, AFL players are nothing special that they should be above that.

 

[PhatBoy]

It's called the AUSTRALIAN Football League. If Kelly and Co weren't prepared to move (odds 2 teams in WA out of 18) then he should've have stuck playing semi pro/amateur footy in Perth, picked up a trade/profession where he didn't have to leave Perth or wherever he was comfortable with. It reiterate he made a choice to play AFL, nobody put a gun to his head and forced him to do it.

Football clubs are not Maccas franchises that you can pick and choose wherever hell you feel like being at. The draft is there for a reason, all clubs need roughly equal access to talent as an attempt to keep the league as healthy and even as possible (even though the flogs at the AFL are currently doing their best to supercharge the QLD and NSW soulless franchises in the pursuit of lucre) and any flog that tries to circumvent that has no sympathy from me.

It is a choice he made by putting up his hand for the AFL draft. Nobody owes an player the right to play wherever they feel like, not in the first few year at least. And if that's the case get rid of the draft as it is pointless and let clubs attract talent without restrictions. As long as the draft is there I'll always demand that it'd be respected, it's not that hard.

Plenty families have husbands that spend significant amount of time working interstate or even overseas, AFL players are nothing special that they should be above that.

Yeah, and as a father and former husband things change, genius.

People take jobs and then find they don’t necessarily like them.

‘Oh no I’m going to throw shit at someone because apparently he wasn’t oh so incredibly happy at my club and proceeded to show it by playing great football there for the next one and a half seasons while we found him a trade that suited him and us.’

They’re human beings not commodities. Deal with it.

 

[JPetro83]

Yes. its a joke.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Nobody told the Weagles to do the deal. In fact they should have taught Kelly a lesson and showed no interest in him and in the process given him and his wife an opportunity an appreciate the opportunity Geelong had presented them with. Instead even before he had filled his locker, 10 weeks into his first season being a rookie more or less, he was already asking out. The sheer audacity of that; not even a bonafide superstar flog like Judd had the temerity to that. He paid his dues with the Weagles, played 7 years for them and repaid them with a flag and then asked to be traded back to Melbourne.

While I understood his reasons I didn't think much of his 'I need to return to WA but won't play for Freo' demand either.

 

[randyzany]

Yeah, and as a father and former husband things change, genius.

People take jobs and then find they don’t necessarily like them.

‘Oh no I’m going to throw shit at someone because apparently he wasn’t oh so incredibly happy at my club and proceeded to show it by playing great football there for the next one and a half seasons while we found him a trade that suited him and us.’

They’re human beings not commodities. Deal with it.

None of that addresses the points that I made. He was already a father with a family the day decided to put his hand up for the draft, Einstein. In fact I'm fairly certain he already had all this planned out beforehand and was very lucky one the WA clubs showed enough determination (fuelled by his impressive debut at AFL level or else it would have been crickets from the Weagles) to try to bring him back to WA.

In a rhetorical (as I already know the answer) scenario, let's say Kelly demonstrated sufficient talent to carve out a nice career as a fringe player (in the 200k to 500k range) but not enough to entice any of the WA clubs to bother going after him. You think he says to himself and his wife that that's it, let's go back to WA even if it means forgoing that amount of AFL money playing outside WA?

Of course not, he puts his head down and works hard to keep his spot for as long as possible and tell his wife to shut up and make arrangement to go back to see family as he and her deem necessary.

It wasn't that long ago, 3 months back, that were strong rumours that Kelly wanted to return to Geelong because the wasn't happy with the offer the Weagles were presenting him with. Guess his family situation wasn't that bad after all, and was somewhat manageable.

 

[randyzany]

While I understood his reasons I didn't think much of his 'I need to return to WA but won't play for Freo' demand either.

I would have been more forgiving and sympathetic if he was open to either Perth club, giving Geelong more leverage on his trade value and return. The fact that he was persistent with the Weagles let it be clearly known that it wasn't just about returning to family in Perth, there were other more pertinent factors at play.

 

[PhatBoy]

None of that addresses the points that I made. He was already a father with a family the day decided to put his hand up for the draft, Einstein. In fact I'm fairly certain he already had all this planned out beforehand and was very lucky one the WA clubs showed enough determination (fuelled by his impressive debut at AFL level or else it would have been crickets from the Weagles) to try to bring him back to WA.

In a rhetorical (as I already know the answer) scenario, let's say Kelly demonstrated sufficient talent to carve out a nice career as a fringe player (in the 200k to 500k range) but not enough to entice any of the WA clubs to bother going after him. You think he says to himself and his wife that that's it, let's go back to WA even if it means foregoing that amount of AFL money playing outside WA?

Of course not, he puts his head down and works hard to keep his spot as long as possible and tell his wife to shut up and make arrangement to go back to see family as he and her deem necessary.

It wasn't that long that were strong rumours that Kelly wanted to return to Geelong because the wasn't happy with the offer the Weagles were presenting him with. Guess his family situation wasn't that bad after all, and was somewhat manageable.

No he doesn’t tell his wife to shut up because no one should talk to their partner that way regardless of who is earning the money.

I’ve learned this shit the hard way.

Stop judging someone for the way they’ve handled their own career because it affected a sports team you like, mate. It’s his life, not yours. Life comes before a football team. Family comes before a football team. He put his hand up to try and better his family’s situation.

Maybe for all you know they sat around as a family and discussed it and thought ‘yep ok I think we are strong enough to handle this’ and then after 5 months reality sets in and suddenly they feel they can’t.

Until you’ve walked a mile in someone else’s shoes you have no idea what the hell they are feeling, why they feel it, or what internal or external pressures make them feel that way.

Your rights as a football fan mean jack shit compared to his rights as a person, and more importantly his wife’s rights as a partner or his childrens’ rights.

 

[randyzany]

No he doesn’t tell his wife to shut up because no one should talk to their partner that way regardless of who is earning the money.

I’ve learned this shit the hard way.

Stop judging someone for the way they’ve handled their own career because it affected a sports team you like, mate. It’s his life, not yours. Life comes before a football team. Family comes before a football team. He put his hand up to try and better his family’s situation.

Maybe for all you know they sat around as a family and discussed it and thought ‘yep ok I think we are strong enough to handle this’ and then after 5 months reality sets in and suddenly they feel they can’t.

Until you’ve walked a mile in someone else’s shoes you have no idea what the hell they are feeling, why they feel it, or what internal or external pressures make them feel that way.

Your rights as a football fan mean jack shit compared to his rights as a person, and more importantly his wife’s rights as a partner or his childrens’ rights.

The moment he stubbornly insisted on the Weagles, never giving Freo a fair chance it was blatantly obvious that family excuse was a smokescreen and not the end all and be all of why he wanted to return to Perth.

I used the phrase 'shut up' for effect because I'm sure that under the alternate circumstances I outlined his wife would not have even contemplated to demand Tim leave a higher paying job living in Victoria for one that paid a lot less back in Perth. She probably would have smacked him for even suggesting it. lol

The only reason they did this it's because he had leverage due to him showing a high level of performance at AFL level that piqued significant interest of a club back in Perth.

If he didn't set the world on fire at AFL level but does enough to retain a regular spot earning decent coin at Geelong, this desperate need to return to Perth disappears. And like I said previously he puts his head down and works his arse off to retain his spot at Geelong for as long as possible.

And again to reiterate what I posted previously, his recent genuine interest to return to Geelong makes a mockery of the supposed urgency of his family situation. But you can believe whatever you want.

 

[PhatBoy]

The moment he stubbornly insisted on the Weagles, never giving Freo a fair chance it was blatantly obvious that family excuse was a smokescreen and not the end all and be all of why he wanted to return to Perth.

I used the phrase 'shut up' for effect because I'm sure that under the alternate circumstances I outlined his wife would not have even contemplated to demand Tim leave a higher paying job living in Victoria for one that paid a lot less back in Perth. She probably would have smacked for even suggesting it. lol

The only reason they did this it's because he had leverage due to him showing a high level of performance at AFL level that piqued significant interest of a club back in Perth.

If he didn't set the world on fire at AFL level but does enough to retain a regular spot earning decent coin at Geelong, this desperate need to return to Perth disappears. And like I said previously he puts his head down and works his arse off to retain his spot at Geelong for as long as possible.

And again to reiterate what I posted previously, his genuine interest to recently return to Geelong makes a mockery of the supposed urgency of his family situation. But you can believe whatever you want.

His family is 6 years older now. Since Tim Kelly wanted to leave Geelong, I’ve had two children go from being in primary school to having two children both with their L’s, one about to leave school in 6 weeks, the other about to finish Year 10, I’ve gone through a divorce, moved towns, been on and off 7-8 times in another relationship, both my children have had 2 different jobs, and both of THEM have relationships.

You dont think, you know, maybe his personal circumstances or his family’s needs or levels of dependency have maybe changed?

 

[randyzany]

His family is 6 years older now. Since Tim Kelly wanted to leave Geelong, I’ve had two children go from being in primary school to having two children both with their L’s, one about to leave school in 6 weeks, the other about to finish Year 10, I’ve gone through a divorce, moved towns, been on and off 7-8 times in another relationship, both my children have had 2 different jobs, and both of THEM have relationships.

You dont think, you know, maybe his personal circumstances or his family’s needs or levels of dependency have maybe changed?

That's a fair enough assumption of why he could've been open to returning to Geelong after all these year I guess. Never-the-less it doesn't explain or excuse his insistence of only dealing with one club when he argued it was purely for family reasons, and/or absolutely essential that his family had to be back in Perth.

I would have been far more sympathetic and fully bought into his claims of family assistance back home had he never put that limitation that put Geelong on the back foot in his trade negotiations. That made it very clear that family wasn't all that his request to move back to Perth was all that it was about.

 

[Romeoh1]

Nup.

 

[PhatBoy]

That's a fair enough assumption of why he could've been open to returning to Geelong after all these year I guess. Never-the-less it doesn't explain or excuse his insistence of only dealing with one club when he argued it was purely for family reasons, and/or absolutely essential that his family had to be back in Perth.

I would have been far more sympathetic and fully bought into his claims of family assistance back home had he never put that limitation that put Geelong on the back foot in his trade negotiations. That made it very clear that family wasn't all that his request to move back to Perth was all that it was about.

You still want to get the best deal possible for yourself and your career.

To me, when it comes to money and work etc, I’ve always been a ‘take what you can get’ person and in the same scenario I would have bitten someone’s hand off to go to either club. They are both financially sound organisations with a lot of support etc etc. But he’s also just gone from the most competitive club in the land in terms of being ‘up’ every year for - at that point - 13 seasons, so he probably had that factored in to where he wanted to go, and then there were rumours (no one knows if they were true or not, for what it’s worth - I have no idea) about his wife’s personal issues with a player or something at Fremantle.

The upshot of all of it is, it helped Geelong take a step forward, it helped Kelly in terms of his family security, it set him back in terms of his legacy as an AFL player, it probably ultimately hurt Fremantle a bit that they didn’t get him (it could have hastened their development a bit in hindsight) and it has hurt the Eagles.

 

[Obeanie1]

Geelong are clearly no 1 at finding diamonds in the rough

And paying 50 cents in the dollar at the trade table.

Landing successful 1st round draft picks.......not so much.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

The current system makes it too easy for players in lower clubs to transfer to top clubs. AFL needs to look at this if they are fair dinkum about a more even competition.