Mega Thread Nick Daicos - Can he be the GTWEB? Part 2

[doppleganger]

Should there be special dispensation?

2022 was his debut season. His finals performances were just as good as his H&A performance. He was listed in Pies best on AFL match report in both the SF and PF, a great return for a kid in his debut season.

As a comparison, the top 3 in the 2025 rising star have played 6 finals to date in 2025, and guess how many Gary Ayres votes they received, yep 0. M.Reid did feature in Freo bests, a great first up final by Reid.

2023 he was unavailable for Wk1 and Wk2 of finals due to a knee injury Anyone surprised that a bloke out injured gets less total votes than players actually playing in the QF/EF and SF??

Nuance and detail are important.

 

[sr36]

Nick is obviously a great player and doesn't do anything on field that warrants the hate he gets but what he can't help is the ridiculous fawning from commentators whose job is to commentate on the game as it unfolds rather than openly cheer and reinforce how big of a star he is every time he has a possession or is in the vicinity of the ball.

There job is to get and keep people watching. The focus on the stars is a very effective NBA marketing tactic that gets their job done. But fans have always focussed on the stars. Bradman drew them through the gates like nothing else. When Fevola retired, country clubs paid him a bomb to play individual games as it quadrupled the crowd and their social club revenue.

 

[p4p1]

Totally off the mark. It was the other coaches suffering the Daicos effect which set up our season. For a big chunk of the season, they had an ultra defensive tagger on him at stoppage, which meant we could control positioning and make the opposition midfield unbalanced and our lesser mids like Long and current Sidey were really effective.

Once teams dropped th ultra defensive tag, our midfield struggled.

Then in the prelim, Pendles got injured, an underdone JDG copped a knock and was dead wood and Long and Sidey were really ordinary. We were too shallow and smashed by a really good deep midfield. The game plan held up - the goals we copped were contested with good numbers but they were better in the contest and scored. The game plan gave us some good opportunities in transition but we weren't good enough to take them.

Our Prelim was like Adelaide in the finals - our midfield wasn't good enough so the opposition controlled the game - you can't have one good bloke surrounded by battlers and get it done against good teams in finals - we needed Pendles and a firing Jordy to have a chance to keep the game on our terms against a team as good as they are around the footy.

The flaw in this argument is that you’ve unintentionally said that Naicos is not as effective as you would like to think. You’re first paragraph states:
Teams abandoned structure and put extra time in to Naicos = Collingwood at their most effective.
Teams decide to stick to their structure and let Nick have more freedom = Collingwood struggling to win games.

It asks the question of how impactful Naicos is.

 

[doppleganger]

If you are good enough to be top 3 (or winning) Leage MVP, Brownlow and Coaches Association awards then you should be good enough to dominate finals from 5 attempts in those years.

No matter how many times people pick you up on your incorrect detail, you still run with your misleading statements...

Two finals in 2023 coming off a knee injury, coaches had him 4th best on ground in the PF and then 3rd best on ground in the GF.

Two finals in 2025, coaches had him 3rd best on ground in the QF and his one "quiet" final was a 26 rated game according to our friends at CD in the PF

 

[Mr Meow]

The flaw in this argument is that you’ve unintentionally said that Naicos is not as effective as you would like to think. You’re first paragraph states:
Teams abandoned structure and put extra time in to Naicos = Collingwood at their most effective.
Teams decide to stick to their structure and let Nick have more freedom = Collingwood struggling to win games.

It asks the question of how impactful Naicos is.

The way they structure Nick in games works better in H&A. Less so in the heat of finals games, especially those where Collingwood are under the pump and not winning enough contests/hard balls.

Outside players will always depend on the team being competitive in that hard-ball/stoppage/pressure space: especially in finals. When they throw Daicos completely inside, his disposals get scrappy, he cannot apply pressure to opposition and his overall effectiveness goes down.

For their next finals series, Collingwood need to devise a plan that allows Daicos to be dominant in finals like he is in the regular season.

 

[sr36]

The flaw in this argument is that you’ve unintentionally said that Naicos is not as effective as you would like to think. You’re first paragraph states:
Teams abandoned structure and put extra time in to Naicos = Collingwood at their most effective.
Teams decide to stick to their structure and let Nick have more freedom = Collingwood struggling to win games.

It asks the question of how impactful Naicos is.

I didn't say what you think I said at all. And it doesn't ask the question that you think it asks. It answers the question.
Nick is so impactful that coaches thought it would be beneficial to run a complete trailer on him that just followed whereever he went at stoppage - even though they know it means their stoppage structures can be manipulated. To put it in simple terms it didn't work because they couldn't stop Nick enough to compensate for the fact that they turned other mids into effective stoppage mids. Then they stopped letting Nick drag his opponent around - Nick became more impactful but not by enough to compensate for the drop off in the rest of the midfield. Footy is a team game. Your logic is like suggesting that we need to question the impact of Jeremy Cameron because coaches choose not to play two defenders on him.

 

[brutus76]

Haydn Bunton Senior went Brownlow, Brownlow, equal 7th, 2nd and Brownlow in his first 5 years.

You got some catching up to do young Nick!

 

[PetterdHoisted]

The fact he had such a great year despite being the most heavily tagged, targeted and planned for player does nothing but elevate his legacy.

And I'm sure is a big reason as to why his peers voted him the League's Most Valuable Player.

Yeah that's all very good...then Rowell told Nick to go home and get his shine box.

 

[sr36]

Haydn Bunton Senior went Brownlow, Brownlow, equal 7th, 2nd and Brownlow in his first 5 years.

You got some catching up to do young Nick!

It gets better.

He then moved to WA for 4 years and went: Sandover, Sandover, 7th, Sandover

3 Brownlows and 3 Sandovers in 11 years. I think he might have gone all right.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

my selective memory says that both 16 clearances and 27 contested possessions are both in the top 10 clearances and contested possessions in any game in history. he did both in 1 game.

You rely on stats when the truth of that game is that Bont took control and Daicos was not able to cope, resulting in Collingwood losing a game despite a 6 goal 1st quarter lead.

 

[Mr Meow]

You rely on stats when the truth of that game is that Bont took control and Daicos was not able to cope, resulting in Collingwood losing a game despite a 6 goal 1st quarter lead.

Daicos starts a lot of games on fire but often uses his petrol tickets up by 3QT or as the tight games bruising effects take hold.

He would be an ideal candidate to be subbed off for fresh legs if they had a specialist sub midfielder in place (JDG if his body is still dicey?).

 

[Lunchtime]

The great Bart Cummings = 12 Melbourne Cups. Probably easier to win 2 Brownlow medals. 12 Cups is like Bradman's average (99.94).

 

[Cdog71]

Not according to Mr.Disengenous, it is his MO.

2022 was his debut season. His finals performances were just as good as his H&A performance. He was listed in Pies best on AFL match report in both the SF and PF, a great return for a kid in his debut season.

As a comparison, the top 3 in the 2025 rising star have played 6 finals to date in 2025, and guess how many Gary Ayres votes they received, yep 0. M.Reid did feature in Freo bests, a great first up final by Reid.

2023 he was unavailable for Wk1 and Wk2 of finals due to a knee injury Anyone surprised that a bloke out injured gets less total votes than players actually playing in the QF/EF and SF??

Nuance and detail are important.

Perhaps but it doesn’t change the outcome.
Why dont you give the name calling a spell

 

[Mr Meow]

Perhaps but it doesn’t change the outcome.
Why dont you give the name calling a spell

12 coaches votes from 7 finals (pre-GF weighting adjustment) simply isn't that many for a player who was a very good half back one of the seasons and then one of the best midfielders/players in the comp the other 2 seasons.

It's a 1.71 average, while his career average is 3.75.

1.71 is right between Petracca and Cerra's 2025 H&A average, for a reference point. I think we can agree that in general he has been well above the level of those players 2025 performances - yet in finals on average that's where he's been.

 

[Fadge]

He would be an ideal candidate to be subbed off for fresh legs if they had a specialist sub midfielder in place (JDG if his body is still dicey?).

Sure. That would be a great way to manage the player who has the highest percentage of matchwinning performances per games played of any current player in the competition.

Imagine how much more the Pies would have won the 2023 Grand Final by if they'd have subbed Daicos out for 'fresher legs'?

 

[Mr Meow]

Sure. That would be a great way to manage the player who has the highest percentage of matchwinning performances per games played of any current player in the competition.

Imagine how much more the Pies would have won the 2023 Grand Final by if they'd have subbed Daicos out for 'fresher legs'?

Who are the top 20, in what order?

If you can't answer then you are caught making things up again. Much like you're about to rig Daicos finishing 1st instead of 4th in the Fadgelow. Fantasy land.

The late match fatigue has occurred more in 2024 and 2025. Perhaps not enough help for him. But he's often faded in these close matches late on. Something for him to work on or for the coaches to help him with.

 

[RUNVS]

After 3 seasons (50 games) Fyfe had 32 Brownlow votes
After 4 seasons (72 games) he had 50 Brownlow votes
After 5 seasons (92 games) he had 75 Brownlow votes

Naicos after 4 seasons (95 games) he has 109 Brownlow votes.

Fyfe a great start, but a fair way behind Nick.

How the Brownlow is calcuated has changed a huge amount in that time. It was only 20 years ago that you could win the Brownlow with 20 votes, now you need twice as many, mostly because umpires are only giving votes to the well known players these days.

 

[Fadge]

Who are the top 20, in what order?

No, i dont need to give you a top 20 in order to prove my statement is correct.

Happy for you to tell me who has a greater percentage of matchwinning performances, as I have previously challenged people to do so, and have disproved every challenge to date.

Go.

 

[Fadge]

How the Brownlow is calcuated has changed a huge amount in that time. It was only 20 years ago that you could win the Brownlow with 20 votes, now you need twice as many, mostly because umpires are only giving votes to the well known players these days.

Except...

Fyfe wasn't playing 20 years ago.

And how many times did 20 votes win the Brownlow in the 2000's?

And how many times has a player needed 40 votes to win the Brownlow in recent years?

I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.

 

[Mr Meow]

No, i dont need to give you a top 20 in order to prove my statement is correct.

Happy for you to tell me who has a greater percentage of matchwinning performances, as I have previously challenged people to do so, and have disproved every challenge to date.

Go.

Ah, so you can't. In other words you have no idea who the top match winners are. If you make a statement you need to be able to back it up.

There was a match to be won on Saturday - like many of the previous 8 or so games - and he failed. He ran out of puff. And he was too weak to win crucial contests or stop the opposition time and time again.

 

[Fadge]

Ah, so you can't. In other words you have no idea who the top match winners are. If you make a statement you need to be able to back it up.

I know Daicos has the highest percentage of matchwinning games than any other player in the competition.

I don't need to know who the next 19 are, in order, for that statement to be correct.

But you can prove the statement wrong by telling us all a player who has a greater percentage of matchwinning performances.

So feel free to do it....

The absence of a nomination will be a concession on your part. Which would be understandable, because there is noone.

 

[Mr Meow]

I know Daicos has the highest percentage of matchwinning games than any other player in the competition.

I don't need to know who the next 19 are, in order, for that statement to be correct.

But you can prove the statement wrong by telling us all a player who has a greater percentage of matchwinning performances.

So feel free to do it....

The absence of a nomination will be a concession on your part. Which would be understandable, because there is noone.

That doesn't even make any sense. I've already seen and disagreed with many of your fabricated match winning performances analyses. We would need someone who knows what they're doing to rewatch the matches. If we selected 30 contenders and someone watched 100 of each of their nominated (stronger) matches, it would take them roughly 6000 hours to complete.

We can accept that you were caught making things up again in this instance. Quite embarrassing.

 

[Fadge]

That doesn't even make any sense. I've already seen and disagreed with many of your fabricated match winning performances analyses. We would need someone who knows what they're doing to rewatch the matches. If we selected 30 contenders and someone watched 100 of each of their nominated (stronger) matches, it would take them roughly 6000 hours to complete.

We can accept that you were caught making things up again in this instance. Quite embarrassing.

So no nomination/s?

Concession accepted.

 

[Mr Meow]

So no nomination/s?

Concession accepted.

Give me your top 20 or else you admit you made it up.

 

[Fadge]

I've already seen and disagreed with many of your fabricated match winning performances analyses

If your bar is higher than mine to consider a performance as 'matchwinning', it just means the bar is higher across the board.

So instead of Daicos having 23% of his games as matchwinning performances, you'd consider only 18% (or something like that).

But that would just mean instead of #2 being at 18%, they'd be at 14% based on your criteria.