List Mgmt. 2017 Draft Discussion (cont in Pt 2)

[pebblesofsand]

Yeah fair enough - but I just think he's a barely marginal upgrade on top 25 to 30 players like Minch and Wright who we will de-list next year any way, so its a why bother scenario.

Does a change of location/coach/game plan turn him into a genuine chance at starting 22 - not that sure.

As for who is available @ Pick 45. FFS its enough trouble trying to decide on pick 7 and 8 but how about this bloke. Snoop dog reckons he might be available around our pick





Plus how good would it be to support the "ginga ninja"

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Apparently Twomey’s phantom is dropping today. Anyone have any idea when it will get released?

This guys usually on the ball. Looking forward to it.

 

[StCicatriz]

Apparently Twomey’s phantom is dropping today. Anyone have any idea when it will get released?

How else do you lure the best kids in the draft?

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

It sounds more like Trout shitting himself & going off course. Just pick Coffield & Bonar ya wrinkly old campaigner!

Or it's maybe because of the belief that DFog is the best kick in the draft & would be the clear number 1 if he hadn't been injured.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

It wont be Joey as he is MCing at a club function which I am going to on Friday night....

surely Rooey would be in Texas by now ? he was heading over once the book tour ended so i doubt he would be back already....
perhaps Kosi and Dal ??

 

[Joffaboy]

Yeah fair enough - but I just think he's a barely marginal upgrade on top 25 to 30 players like Minch and Wright who we will de-list next year any way, so its a why bother scenario.

Does a change of location/coach/game plan turn him into a genuine chance at starting 22 - not that sure.

As for who is available @ Pick 45. FFS its enough trouble trying to decide on pick 7 and 8 but how about this bloke. Snoop dog reckons he might be available around our pick





Plus how good would it be to support the "ginga ninja"

Campaigner looks like Adam Ant

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Coffield and Bonar are my dream pair as well with 7 and 8, just keeping my fingers crossed now!

im on the Coffee boner train as well .... for the later picks im going out of the square a bit.. so my tips are :

Pick 7 - Nicholas Coffield -
Versatile player who can play in defence, through the midfield or up forward. Showed excellent breakaway speed from down back throughout the NAB AFL U18 Championships and as a good one-on-one contest player and strong overhead, won All Australian honours. His 2.91 seconds for 20m at the Draft Combine showcased his speed.

Pick 8 - Aiden Bonar
A powerfully built, versatile tall who excels at stoppages and has a burst of speed away from congestion. Strong overhead and very competitive, he has overcome two ACL injuries to return to school and club football late in the year. All Australian at U15 level in 2014 and has massive upside. Impressed in the All Star game at the MCG on Grand Final day to be among the best players. At the Draft Combine his 2.90 seconds for 20m highlighted his speed

Pick 34- Oscar Clavarino
A graduate of the NAB AFL Academy who is a tall defender with excellent closing speed and strong hands overhead. Accountable and a strong performer in one-on-one contests, he uses the ball well, setting up his team from defence. An impressive NAB AFL U18 Championships performance earned him All Australian honours.

Pick 45 - Kyron Hayden
Strongly built medium midfielder with good balance between contested and uncontested football. Very good stoppage player who performed well for Western Australia in the NAB AFL U18 Championships.

 

[#gosaintas]

Its rumoured that Nat Fyfe is a similar person,i bet u wouldnt care about him being a Figjam if we happened to have picked him up in the Trade period just past

Are you comparing Fyfe to Hartung?

 

[Murraj1966]

Coff/Steph

Vanilla and Bailey's is a nice mix

 

[George]

WTF is all this vanilla crap?

Are we building a premiership squad or buying ice cream FFS?

 

[King_Steele]

Screw Bonar.

No. Screw you!!

 

[gringo2011]

We must take best available at both picks. I understand the attraction of pairing up a 'safer' pick with a 'riskier' pick but that should absolutely be avoided. It is statistically and probabilistically irrational. It's the type of folly that was revealed in cases like Moneyball. We should have our own predetermined draft order and pick accordingly.

It' a bit like having just enough to buy one house though and you go safe and try to get the most affluent suburb you can find in the price range. You know there will be slow steady growth. But you also get an inheritance of the same amount that came from Aunt Hawthorn, this time you know there is this grimy inner west suburb that is starting to get a few yuppies in and you go for it knowing it might be still a slum in another 10 years but if it takes off you could make a million+ bucks in 4 years. I say it does give you the ability go a bit more speculative than if you had one top 10.

 

[gringo2011]

Still reckon that if Buddy doesn’t completely wreck his ankle in the 4th minute of the game, Swans win

Dogs lucky bastards IMHO

They had some luck that year, they were gifted frees in WA, had GWS lose Callan Ward to concussion etc. Everything just fell their way including the best umpiring run in a finals series. We are cursed I reckon, some campaigner threw a black cat through a mirror under a ladder back in the day.

 

[gringo2011]

Not a popular comment but I reckon you’re spot-on and have thought the same for some time. I’m not saying (and don’t think you were either) that there was not some plain bad luck that has been a major factor in our pick not working out so far but I still think what we did with Paddy should be seen as a cautionary tale about picking for needs rather than best available.

As a somewhat related aside, last weekend in my adopted home city of Stockholm, I scored some corporate seats to an NHL game played here in the city. At the pre-game function I was seated next to a long-time NHL scout (20 years) and had an interesting talk to him about his career and how it has changed over the years/what players he looks for now etc. While ice-hockey and Aussie Rules are different sports it was amazing how similar the changes in the game are and how it effects the types of players you look for.

He reckons it is across all sports: there was a period a few years back globally (or for us, think Hawthorn, for soccer Barcelona) where teams that dominated possession were winning title after title. The only solution to this was more and more pressure. In sports like ice-hockey he says rotations have gone up a lot but a big thing has been changing the sort of players you scout and draft so that they have the capacity to apply pressure at all times when they don’t have the puck. He reckons the pressure era is here to stay across all sports… it will just become the norm and it makes recruiters jobs really tough.

You’ve gotta look for players that tick every box to make it in the modern pressure era. Can they stick to team rules strictly, do they have the right character to do so, can they execute the basic skills all the time even when fatigued, do they make the right decisions quickly and under pressure often…. The list goes on. And he says the toughest thing is, 20 years ago, you’d find a kid with the X factor that you knew would be a star but would never be a defensive minded player and it didn’t matter much: sport had plenty of room for these types then… Not any more, with pressure game plans, one missing cog in the machine means it all breaks down and gives the opposition easy scoring opportunities. So even the stars have to be good at applying manic pressure (see Dusty, Cotchin from the Tigers for example, or Jack for forwards).

Bringing it back to Paddy, looking back at our pick and knowing the pressure era is here to stay, you have to say objectively there are a couple of things going against him having the impact we are all hoping like crazy he will have. His tank is a major stumbling block: yes it will improve but how much? And will it allow him to run both ways and still be effective offensively? And he is a fantastic contested mark but, is that even a part of the game anymore going forward in eras when he’ll often be up against 3 defenders? His character is fantastic but unless his tank improves and we can find a gameplan that leaves him one-out more often, (in the modern game, good luck) it’s a tough new era for forwards like Paddy.

Yeah, he really has to be very very good to be able to carry him. I like guys like Stephenson and Hunter clark for those reasons both are two way players, both extremely attacking but just as eager to work back the other way. That's my concern with Coifed, he's very attacking but he doesn't do a lot of high pressure defending, he's very strong at winning contested possession so it's off set somewhat, but it's not ideal.

 

[gringo2011]

Think Knightmare might be on whatever Buckenara has been on!

Balta at 6 when he might go 30's, Crossley at 17 when he's expected to go 3rd round onwards, Butts at 20 when he's expected to go 3rd or 4th round, Cassidy Parish at 29 when he might not get drafted, Lachie Fogarty at 37 when he's looking like going 14 or 15, Ed Richards at 38 when he's in the mix to go as high as 9 or so. Bonar at 39 when he's widely reported to be right in the mix at 7/8 and as early as 6. Murphy at 49 when he's said to be a real chance to go at 6, Ling outside his top 50 when most others have him top 25....

Thoughts Barrels

Kevin Sheehan seems to be a huge Balta fan too, he's very raw and not played a heap of footy. Some say he's got the highest ceiling of any KP in the draft. There is something about him that looks good but also something a bit like Tommy Walsh where he can get lost on the field but does other stuff that make you see the potential. Crossley in that All Stars game looked like he could impact the ruck from day one and also no slouch at getting in good attacking spots. I reckon he's going to be Shane Mumford in a few years. On potential Crossley is probably at around 16 but he'd be a huge risk there as well. L Fog looks a gun and Ed Richards is very good but tiny. I'd say it's just a really hard to rate draft all in all.

 

[gringo2011]

If he was clearly the best player available then why are we talking about the Boyd thing as justification?

Paddy was the wrong pick at the time. If we're lucky he'll go well in 2018 and we'll still have a chance of success, but even if that happens it doesn't mean he was the right pick.

Mids, mids, and more mids.

I think it all has to do with timing. Boyd spooked us and mids were leaking out of GWS like water. Now it's hard to get mids and you could pick up a KP from the delisted free agents list that would carry you through they way we are currently playing. It was footy fashion and at the time, we went for something that was only in for a season and we didn't even get to wear it except around the house. Hopefully we have had him in the cupboard so long it becomes the current style again. If he comes out and kicks 50+ goals others might start copying us again.

 

[Mikka84]

Kevin Sheehan seems to be a huge Balta fan too, he's very raw and not played a heap of footy. Some say he's got the highest ceiling of any KP in the draft. There is something about him that looks good but also something a bit like Tommy Walsh where he can get lost on the field but does other stuff that make you see the potential. Crossley in that All Stars game looked like he could impact the ruck from day one and also no slouch at getting in good attacking spots. I reckon he's going to be Shane Mumford in a few years. On potential Crossley is probably at around 16 but he'd be a huge risk there as well. L Fog looks a gun and Ed Richards is very good but tiny. I'd say it's just a really hard to rate draft all in all.

I rate Balta incredibly high. For a kid to be played in the ruck, midfield and then thrown down back and excel has all the traits of someone who will only get better.

Watch some of his highlights through the comp. Honestly think he’ll end up one of the best players through this draft.

 

[CursingFijian]

My guess is we have renewed our interest in Fogarty due to the murmurs or all the top mids being taken after thinking we would get Brayshaw. Just a feeling as it seems odd to travel over after (apparently) being cold on him.

Or Stephenson's heart scans, which we were one of a handful of clubs to monitor closely according to afl.com has scared us into reviewing plan D(Fog).

 

[Lightsxo]

If Stephenson is available and we pick Bonar, I'm going to have a decent to strong melt.

 

[triggering bro]

Or it's maybe because of the belief that DFog is the best kick in the draft & would be the clear number 1 if he hadn't been injured.

I’m not totally against the DFog but I must admit that his stats over the past two years at all levels does not read that favourably!

 

[Yawkey way]

If Stephenson is available and we pick Bonar, I'm going to have a decent to strong melt.

Nah that deserves a full melt, whip down to cash converters and buy an old tv so you can brick it kind of melt.

 

[PrinceofSeaford]

With all the top mids seemingly off the table we have to pick Stephenson. The other players simply aren't good enough to warrant passing on him with both 7&8

 

[gringo2011]

He seems anything but vanilla to me. Takes the game on, lightning quick, sidestep and takes risks with his kicks (and thankfully hits his targets as well).

The fact many project him as a half-back when it's a position we seemingly have an abundance of I get is a knock on him but I reckon the damage he can inflict with ball in hand and his speed and evasiveness means he's a long way from the vanilla description.

He seems to have a couple of really strong areas, he reads the ball well and seems to be very good a picking it up at just the right time, he hardly ever needs to get down on the ground to pick it up, he just seems to time it as it bounces back unto him. He does however rarely mark for a guy his size and position, he seems a very big body with lots of pace which is very appealing but there is something a little not quite the package about him. Doesn't seem ultra defensive either. He's a good Roberton replacement in that plays small for a guy his size, in that regard he's probably more like Gilbert but looks a more reliable kick. Gilbert is pretty good with kicking as long as he can get it onto his preferred foot, I'm not quite sure with NC and his dual sidedness.

 

[saint_]

Would we be looking at Oscar Clavarino at pick 34? Key Defender, looks like he reads the ball well and has a neat kick.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I rate Balta incredibly high. For a kid to be played in the ruck, midfield and then thrown down back and excel has all the traits of someone who will only get better.

Watch some of his highlights through the comp. Honestly think he’ll end up one of the best players through this draft.

Perfect Sam Gilbert replacement - but Pick 7/8 - a stretch!!!