List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 3

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.
No Baker?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Can't play everyone. We need genuine mids who find the ball and run up and down the ground. I know it's impossible to get this level of player, but wouldn't you love to see those final two spots reading something like McLuggage, Parish? We simply need to win the ball more and get it going our way, we need to bolster our midfield stocks especially with part of the core group now ageing, Cotchin being one showing it heavily. Baker is very handy but in the end is mainly just a small back or forward. Perhaps he stays in ahead of one of the Riolis but I really wanna see both in the side, so he just misses out.

EDIT: Just to expand on this, I feel like we have pigeon-holed ourselves into thinking we can rely on smalls and defensive pressure, and we don't care about guys being able to win 30+. I love Graham but he is in the side more as a defensive mid, would love to see him find the ball more instead. Whilst I can't argue with how we've fared - 3 flags in 4 years - I feel that we can still have high ball winners and still be a pressure/tackle side. With the latter dropping off recently and having a shallow midfield that doesn't win a heap of ball or cover a lot of ground, we are being exposed a little.

Look at say, Essendon, yeah they aren't quite there yet but Parish and Merrett get 35+ nearly every game, yet still tackle and apply pressure all over the ground.

The Dogs play a crazy deep midfield, just off the top of my head their best 22 has two rucks then Bontempelli, Macrae, Liberatore, Treloar, Smith, Dunkley, Hunter, and would be playing McLean if he wasn't injured again recently.

Each of those players can win 30+ and, with the exception of perhaps Smith and Treloar, each of them tackles and applies pressure. That is just a super deep midfield and it makes their average-ish defence over-perform because they don't need to work as hard, and their forward line gets more quality supply. Nearly all of those mids can hit the scoreboard too.

Compare to our midfield of Cotchin (gets it 10-20 times a game max now), Martin (20-25 touches, spends half the game sitting forward), Prestia (25-30 but injured a lot), Edwards (20-25), Graham (10-20/25), McIntosh (10-15), Pickett (10-15), Lambert (10-20), Bolton (basically same as Dusty). Very low ball winning numbers and perhaps only a third or half of these guys can regularly hit the scoreboard.

We just simply need more ball winners that cover the ground. If you took just McIntosh and Pickett out of that and replaced with say Dunkley and Treloar, our midfield would suddenly look a whole lot better. No disrespect to McIntosh and Pickett either, for example I always love those "McIntosh moments" where he wins a tough contest near the wing and bursts away, but they just don't do enough overall. A couple of tackling players that find it 25-35 times would massively improve us, and I'm not even talking a Tom Mitchell who isn't damaging, but to be honest I'm now coming around to the idea of having him...
 
Last edited:
To be honest,He's won 2 premierships.Wouldn't begrudge if he left and to our POV we get a great deal while he's in hot demand.
Freo-Cerra & Pick 27
Ess-Pick 10 & Future 2nd.
You have to ask yourself is the hunger there after winning 2?
 
Can't play everyone. We need genuine mids who find the ball and run up and down the ground. I know it's impossible to get this level of player, but wouldn't you love to see those final two spots reading something like McLuggage, Parish? We simply need to win the ball more and get it going our way, we need to bolster our midfield stocks especially with part of the core group now ageing, Cotchin being one showing it heavily. Baker is very handy but in the end is mainly just a small back or forward. Perhaps he stays in ahead of one of the Riolis but I really wanna see both in the side, so he just misses out.

EDIT: Just to expand on this, I feel like we have pigeon-holed ourselves into thinking we can rely on smalls and defensive pressure, and we don't care about guys being able to win 30+. I love Graham but he is in the side more as a defensive mid, would love to see him find the ball more instead. Whilst I can't argue with how we've fared - 3 flags in 4 years - I feel that we can still have high ball winners and still be a pressure/tackle side. With the latter dropping off recently and having a shallow midfield that doesn't win a heap of ball or cover a lot of ground, we are being exposed a little.

Look at say, Essendon, yeah they aren't quite there yet but Parish and Merrett get 35+ nearly every game, yet still tackle and apply pressure all over the ground.

The Dogs play a crazy deep midfield, just off the top of my head their best 22 has two rucks then Bontempelli, Macrae, Liberatore, Treloar, Smith, Dunkley, Hunter, and would be playing McLean if he wasn't injured again recently.

Each of those players can win 30+ and, with the exception of perhaps Smith and Treloar, each of them tackles and applies pressure. That is just a super deep midfield and it makes their average-ish defence over-perform because they don't need to work as hard, and their forward line gets more quality supply. Nearly all of those mids can hit the scoreboard too.

Compare to our midfield of Cotchin (gets it 10-20 times a game max now), Martin (20-25 touches, spends half the game sitting forward), Prestia (25-30 but injured a lot), Edwards (20-25), Graham (10-20/25), McIntosh (10-15), Pickett (10-15), Lambert (10-20), Bolton (basically same as Dusty). Very low ball winning numbers and perhaps only a third or half of these guys can regularly hit the scoreboard.

We just simply need more ball winners that cover the ground. If you took just McIntosh and Pickett out of that and replaced with say Dunkley and Treloar, our midfield would suddenly look a whole lot better. No disrespect to McIntosh and Pickett either, for example I always love those "McIntosh moments" where he wins a tough contest near the wing and bursts away, but they just don't do enough overall. A couple of tackling players that find it 25-35 times would massively improve us, and I'm not even talking a Tom Mitchell who isn't damaging, but to be honest I'm now coming around to the idea of having him...
really valid point... and I have been thinking about it a lot last few weeks...

I think our game plan has to change...

We started winning when we changed our game plan to suit our players...

Well we have had player turnover and form fluctuations and structural change to the tea, but the game plan hasn't changed...

we back into the old model of trying to get players to fit a game plan, rather than a game plan to fit players...
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Can't play everyone. We need genuine mids who find the ball and run up and down the ground. I know it's impossible to get this level of player, but wouldn't you love to see those final two spots reading something like McLuggage, Parish? We simply need to win the ball more and get it going our way, we need to bolster our midfield stocks especially with part of the core group now ageing, Cotchin being one showing it heavily. Baker is very handy but in the end is mainly just a small back or forward. Perhaps he stays in ahead of one of the Riolis but I really wanna see both in the side, so he just misses out.

EDIT: Just to expand on this, I feel like we have pigeon-holed ourselves into thinking we can rely on smalls and defensive pressure, and we don't care about guys being able to win 30+. I love Graham but he is in the side more as a defensive mid, would love to see him find the ball more instead. Whilst I can't argue with how we've fared - 3 flags in 4 years - I feel that we can still have high ball winners and still be a pressure/tackle side. With the latter dropping off recently and having a shallow midfield that doesn't win a heap of ball or cover a lot of ground, we are being exposed a little.

Look at say, Essendon, yeah they aren't quite there yet but Parish and Merrett get 35+ nearly every game, yet still tackle and apply pressure all over the ground.

The Dogs play a crazy deep midfield, just off the top of my head their best 22 has two rucks then Bontempelli, Macrae, Liberatore, Treloar, Smith, Dunkley, Hunter, and would be playing McLean if he wasn't injured again recently.

Each of those players can win 30+ and, with the exception of perhaps Smith and Treloar, each of them tackles and applies pressure. That is just a super deep midfield and it makes their average-ish defence over-perform because they don't need to work as hard, and their forward line gets more quality supply. Nearly all of those mids can hit the scoreboard too.

Compare to our midfield of Cotchin (gets it 10-20 times a game max now), Martin (20-25 touches, spends half the game sitting forward), Prestia (25-30 but injured a lot), Edwards (20-25), Graham (10-20/25), McIntosh (10-15), Pickett (10-15), Lambert (10-20), Bolton (basically same as Dusty). Very low ball winning numbers and perhaps only a third or half of these guys can regularly hit the scoreboard.

We just simply need more ball winners that cover the ground. If you took just McIntosh and Pickett out of that and replaced with say Dunkley and Treloar, our midfield would suddenly look a whole lot better. No disrespect to McIntosh and Pickett either, for example I always love those "McIntosh moments" where he wins a tough contest near the wing and bursts away, but they just don't do enough overall. A couple of tackling players that find it 25-35 times would massively improve us, and I'm not even talking a Tom Mitchell who isn't damaging, but to be honest I'm now coming around to the idea of having him...

Agree but still do not want Mitchell who has low hurt factor.

Mitchell too expensive for what Hawks want and salary demands.

The changing rules makes it more about running and less about kicking goals and defending them. I think Geelong could win the next three premierships because of the change in rules
 
Agree but still do not want Mitchell who has low hurt factor.

Mitchell too expensive for what Hawks want and salary demands
Gotta be honest I watched Hawthorn vs. Melbourne and Mitchell did a lot to get the ball going his team's way. We can't have everyone be as damaging as Bontempelli, sometimes you do need a guy who can keep finding the ball, releasing players or just banging it forward. Right now we barely have a guy like that, let alone one that can do it 30+ times a game.

A couple of seasons of Tom Mitchell whilst our window is still open really probably would benefit us.
 
really valid point... and I have been thinking about it a lot last few weeks...

I think our game plan has to change...

We started winning when we changed our game plan to suit our players...

Well we have had player turnover and form fluctuations and structural change to the tea, but the game plan hasn't changed...

we back into the old model of trying to get players to fit a game plan, rather than a game plan to fit players...
Yeah agreed. Dimma is deadset on the smalls (currently Aarts, Castagna, Baker) and the 8 defenders (based on injury it's currently Grimes, Astbury, Garthwaite, Short, Mansell, Stack, Rioli) regardless of the player's actual quality.

As much as I love Dimma and cannot dispute our success, it is clear as day that this structure simply isn't working. We've totally robbed our midfield playing 3 smalls who offer almost nothing (exception being Baker probably) and 8 defenders.

Most other teams pick their best 22 footballers and slot them into whatever style they are trying to achieve. Yes, some structural roles will always need to be filled, eg. you can't go into a game with 1 tall defender, so right now Garthwaite has to play for us. But yeah you're right, we seem to be doing it backwards now.

If we were to go purely on quality - like we should - there's just no way Josh Caddy should be out of this team, would offer infinitely more than Jake Aarts as a forward. Taller, more skilled, craftier, knows how to find the ball, proven player in a premiership side. He has dropped off a touch recently but you could argue it's partly cause we changed him to some weird defensive winger. We'd improve by 5 percent if he was in the side as a forward rather than Jake Aarts. At least he can also take a grab...

If we went to 7 defenders and 2 small forwards and replaced Aarts with Caddy, we could bolster the midfield a little and we'd look so much better.
 
Lol, Pies finish last, and GWS use their pick to bid on Daicos 😂😂 that sums up their year


Absolute reason why i never believe in trading future first round picks unless you are getting an AA quality player in the deal.

First Carlton, now Collingwood - puts their rebuild back 5 years. Could have had pick 1 & 2
 
We wanted to keep Markov too.
True we wanted to keep him but on our terms and we've shown when a fringe player wants to move on we are quite accommodating in getting them to where they want to go.

Geelong aren't going to be as accommodating IMO as Narkle is seen as a key part of their next midfield group.
 
True we wanted to keep him but on our terms and we've shown when a fringe player wants to move on we are quite accommodating in getting them to where they want to go.

Geelong aren't going to be as accommodating IMO as Narkle is seen as a key part of their next midfield group.
Don't care...let the skats keep him then...
 
Gotta be honest I watched Hawthorn vs. Melbourne and Mitchell did a lot to get the ball going his team's way. We can't have everyone be as damaging as Bontempelli, sometimes you do need a guy who can keep finding the ball, releasing players or just banging it forward. Right now we barely have a guy like that, let alone one that can do it 30+ times a game.

A couple of seasons of Tom Mitchell whilst our window is still open really probably would benefit us.

But Mitchell and Hawks want to much for what he puts out
 
Absolute reason why i never believe in trading future first round picks unless you are getting an AA quality player in the deal.

First Carlton, now Collingwood - puts their rebuild back 5 years. Could have had pick 1 & 2


Agree, rather go to the draft than get Mitchell.

Those higher draft picks have to go to the draft unless one is chasing a legitimate gun if not out and out match winner.

Even Essendon chasing Shiel was not worth it

Chasing Boak via FA next year makes more sense

Thats why its imperative to hold onto Bolton unless Essendon wants to give up the farm and same with Freo and Bolton make a more informed decision later.

Pies salaries must be unbelievable.

Parish emerging just shows how stupid Essendon was chasing Shiel

Its fantastic how some of these bigger clubs destroyed their windows through trading for a supposed big fish
 
Last edited:
Draft watchers, reckon Jack Williams is one we'd be having a look at? W.A. key forward. Only turns 18 in December, which often means more scope for growth and improvement being almost a year younger than some top agers.

Sent from my CPH1951 using Tapatalk
I've started a Draft Preview thread for anyone interested in chat about the upcoming Draft. This draft will be a critical one for us to build the next gen.

 
Agree, rather go to the draft than get Mitchell.

Those higher draft picks have to go to the draft unless one is chasing a legitimate gun if not out and out match winner.

Even Essendon chasing Shiel was not worth it

Chasing Boak via FA next year makes more sense

Thats why its imperative to hold onto Bolton unless Essendon wants to give up the farm and same with Freo and Bolton make a more informed decision later.

Pies salaries must be unbelievable.

Parish emerging just shows how stupid Essendon was chasing Shiel

Its fantastic how some of these bigger clubs destroyed their windows through trading for a supposed big fish


Even the Judd trade effectively saw itself to not be worth it - and that includes West Coast not really hitting on the 2 picks they got out of it (Masten & Notte) - just Kennedy alone made that deal a loss to the Blues in hindsight

I would definitely not be trading a 1st rounder for Mitchell. At least Cerra offers a youth and fills a massive age-gap hole in our roster
 
Last edited:

(Log in to remove this ad.)

To be honest,He's won 2 premierships.Wouldn't begrudge if he left and to our POV we get a great deal while he's in hot demand.
Freo-Cerra & Pick 27
Ess-Pick 10 & Future 2nd.
You have to ask yourself is the hunger there after winning 2?

reckon safe that he's staying, but do think he's happy to sit and let see what happens in case something extra falls from the tiger tree .... which he is more than justified in doing ....
 
To be honest,He's won 2 premierships.Wouldn't begrudge if he left and to our POV we get a great deal while he's in hot demand.
Freo-Cerra & Pick 27
Ess-Pick 10 & Future 2nd.
You have to ask yourself is the hunger there after winning 2?

there is no way RFC are letting him go for that.

Why no lube?

This is why some fall to understand why some are not keen on Cerra and essendon looking at Bolton, your underrating Bolton's value and overrating Cerra
 
This facebook page/Twitter account has been proved as rubbish time and time again!


100%. *.

Dimma on 360 was asked which of Bolts of Jacks mark's does he think deserves to win MOTY - his answer was "Im going to say Bolts as apparently he still hasn't signed his contract extension".

As jokey as the comment was, it made me stop a bit as he was acknowledging a contract was there to be signed - but wasn't & I saw it as Dimma's own lil way of getting a message through to Bolts & his manager through the media.

Nothing seems to be going smoothly at the moment, at all
 
Don’t believe Ess would pay him > parish , merret maybe even stringer meaning offer would be in range with ours
Freo if they know cerra is out and had 750 spare would go balls deep , does he want to return to WA , I don’t reckon he does


I dunno about that. This all went to s**t when he went back to Perth. His form prior to the WCE game was awesome - but that night he seemed to try and do too much and played some bloody selfish footy - looked to be showing off a bit, trying to "showcase" etc. Since that week, he has looked really detached - in saying that, the entire group has looked broken so hard to pinpoint to be "just him".

I wont believe he is signed though until he literally has. Until then i see it 50/50 at best
 
I dunno about that. This all went to sh*t when he went back to Perth. His form prior to the WCE game was awesome - but that night he seemed to try and do too much and played some bloody selfish footy - looked to be showing off a bit, trying to "showcase" etc. Since that week, he has looked really detached - in saying that, the entire group has looked broken so hard to pinpoint to be "just him".

I wont believe he is signed though until he literally has. Until then i see it 50/50 at best
He was voted 2nd BOG by the coaches 1 week ago
 
there is no way RFC are letting him go for that.

Why no lube?

This is why some fall to understand why some are not keen on Cerra and essendon looking at Bolton, your underrating Bolton's value and overrating Cerra


I would make Freo trade Cerra and their 1st rounder. If we had to send a mid to late 2nd or early 3rd back -then so be it.

If Essendon want him i would ream them - 2 1st & a 2nd of Bolton and a late 3rd rounder. Seriously * essendon, they are dicks when trading their own & i don't reckon their little lending of Rance helped us much - just re-dug up more ghost for the players and the supporters tbh

Ideally, we keep him. His upside is as high as top 5% of the league - he will add years onto Dusty's career if thats what he wanted to - makes his life so much easier
 
Last edited:
He was voted 2nd BOG by the coaches 1 week ago

Is that meant to prove anything? His games for over a month before that were awful t & his latest game was pure s**t.

The club & supporters desperately need a good news story. Signing after Jacks 300th would have been a massive boost for us & the club. He didn't & now we are getting reports from the media & Dimma himself telling us he hasn;t signed the extension they agreed to yet. It's not helping the situation
 
I would make Freo trade Cerra and their 1st rounder. If we had to send a mid to late 2nd or early 3rd back -then so be it.

If Essendon want him i would ream them - 2 1st & a 2nd of Bolton and a late 3rd rounder. Seriously fu** essendon, they are dicks when trading their own & i don't reckon their little lending of Rance helped us much - just re-dug up more ghost for the players and the supporters tbh

Ideally, we keep him. His upside is as high as top 5% of the league - he will add years onto Dusty's career if thats what he wanted to - makes his life so much easier
I don’t believe Ess are a factor their offer wouldn’t I imagine be too indifferent to ours to warrant a shift , they’re NOT about to make him their highest paid player
 
True we wanted to keep him but on our terms and we've shown when a fringe player wants to move on we are quite accommodating in getting them to where they want to go.

Geelong aren't going to be as accommodating IMO as Narkle is seen as a key part of their next midfield group.


LOL, no one is as accommodating as us - we are the only team i see that does it & I haven't really seen the reward of being "accommodating". If anything this year we saw the eventual fallout of giving your depth away for "mates rates"

What tangible example can we show of this strategy yet? Is there any player we have gotten back in return yet Don't say Lynch, as we poached him good and proper
 
Don't care...let the skats keep him then...
This isn't a shot at you, but this board makes me laugh when it comes to potential trades.

Everyone wants to get good players in but when it comes to paying the price required to get them, the reaction is usually nope don't want him if that's what it costs.

Now I get we all want to get the best players for the cheapest price, but the type of players we're reportedly chasing aren't fringe types who we're looking to pick up just to fill a list as we rebuild, they're players who we want to be best 22 from R1 2022 in particular Cerra and Narkle. I mean it would be great to land Cerra for a second rounder and Narkle for a 3rd round pick but unfortunately it won't happen. Cerra will be at least a first round pick, maybe more and I don't see Narkle being let go for anything outside a 2nd round pick.

As fans we might not like it, but I think if we start to think that this is likely to be the price the club pays it will stop the meltdowns comes trade period.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top