Toast Ross Lyon returns to St.Kilda #UnfinishedBusiness

[sauce_head]

I never kept up with this thread ultimately. Did Ratten ever release anything to the supporters?

I’ll take that as a no.

That should finalise a few arguments on here from memory.

 

[MordySaint]

If things had ran their normal course and Ratts had got the bullet towards the end of next year, then three of the prime candidates would've been Lyon, Hayes and Harvey.

As it turns out we've fast tracked the 'process' and got all three of them. What's not to like about that?

Great organisations headhunt their leaders while the existing ones are still in place.

They don't go through committees, focus groups or do they care about the short term fallout ... they make the tough decisions and stick to it.

This is the turning point of our great club.

 

[ScrappyDo]

If things had ran their normal course and Ratts had got the bullet towards the end of next year, then three of the prime candidates would've been Lyon, Hayes and Harvey.

As it turns out we've fast tracked the 'process' and got all three of them. What's not to like about that?

That's just a bit romantic. Hayes and Harvey were never going to be candidates.

 

[sammm]

That's just a bit romantic. Hayes and Harvey were never going to be candidates.

harvey has only been head coach as interim, he is just is no good in the media. Probably great as a 1 on 1 coach or with players that he knows which is probably why he has lasted so long as assistant coach..

 

[MordySaint]

harvey has only been head coach as interim, he is just is no good in the media. Probably great as a 1 on 1 coach or with players that he knows which is probably why he has lasted so long as assistant coach..

It's no shame to be a great assistant coach and not a worthy head coach.

Head coaches are a rare breed, its not a job for everyone... many try but few are successful at it.

 

[Joffaboy]

It's no shame to be a great assistant coach and not a worthy head coach.

Head coaches are a rare breed, its not a job for everyone... many try but few are successful at it.

Think Richo fills that category.

 

[gringo2011]

Think Richo fills that category.

And Ratts, Watters, Neald and a heap of others. Leppisch maybe even, although he probably deserves another go.

Those Doyen coaches are really rare. Ross Lyon is a couple of straight kicks off being in the doyen club IMO. Probably only Roos, Clarko, Matthews, Hardwick, Horse and Chris Scott for the modern to current era are in that group. Even Malthouse who was well respected sits out of it due to his Carlton legacy.... actually Pagan was Carltoned too.

 

[sunny3193]

No sighting of RTB at training this morning.
Very disappointing that he has such a cavalier attitude.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

No sighting of RTB at training this morning.
Very disappointing that he has such a cavalier attitude.

Playing golf with Blighty

 

[Joffaboy]

And Ratts, Watters, Neald and a heap of others. Leppisch maybe even, although he probably deserves another go.

Those Doyen coaches are really rare. Ross Lyon is a couple of straight kicks off being in the doyen club IMO. Probably only Roos, Clarko, Matthews, Hardwick, Horse and Chris Scott for the modern to current era are in that group. Even Malthouse who was well respected sits out of it due to his Carlton legacy.... actually Pagan was Carltoned too.

Roos said the others day, Leo Barry doesn't take the mark in 2005 and the ball bounces to Milne in 2010, Lyon is a premiership coach and Roos isn't. Fine margins.

 

[StFly]

Roos said the others day, Leo Barry doesn't take the mark in 2005 and the ball bounces to Milne in 2010, Lyon is a premiership coach and Roos isn't. Fine margins.

Chappys procedure is the year previous, oh look, no 3 goals in 1 goal game from 2 week banned procedure jumping.

Essentially, everyone involved except us, has a reason to bump back if timing shifts slightly or something in game shifts slightly, but in the end, we get screwed because of all these things. And the AFL still don't have the balls to sit in a chair, emulate Sirengate, and write in a document to reduce something by 5.

But boy oh boy, what a great league filled with competent hamsters we have...

 

[Saintos The ITK]

I might be going a bit early but I think positive results of
The coach change and review are starting to show alteady.

 

[stfan]

I might be going a bit early but I think positive results of
The coach change and review are starting to show alteady.

Yes on here most definitely.

With our team we will have to wait and see.

I still see it as needing to improve our list more to be a genuine finals threat. Hopefully the huge changes in our football department, plus for once maybe a reasonable fair fixture, may se us sneak into the 8.

But in terms of being a threat in the finals, Cats, Lions, Dogs, Tigers have all improved their best 22/high end depth.
Dees with Grundy in are still a good list.

So we would need massive improvement to bea genuine threat. I suspect the gameplan will havea fe hiccups till they get everyone used to it, plus that it will need tweaking as the season progresses.

But yes I am expecting a much better St Kilda in 2023 now.

 

[hayes]

Yes on here most definitely.

With our team we will have to wait and see.

I still see it as needing to improve our list more to be a genuine finals threat. Hopefully the huge changes in our football department, plus for once maybe a reasonable fair fixture, may se us sneak into the 8.

But in terms of being a threat in the finals, Cats, Lions, Dogs, Tigers have all improved their best 22/high end depth.
Dees with Grundy in are still a good list.

So we would need massive improvement to bea genuine threat. I suspect the gameplan will havea fe hiccups till they get everyone used to it, plus that it will need tweaking as the season progresses.

But yes I am expecting a much better St Kilda in 2023 now.


View attachment 1558941

Is sneaking into finals on the back of an easy fixture really the best thing for us long term? It just creates false hope and makes you think you’re better than you are. I’m hoping we play all the best teams twice to know where we’re at and if we aren’t good enough we’ll get the draft picks to be good enough.

 

[sunny3193]

stavro#4 has really summarised the situation brilliantly.
Even if RTB proves to be less successful than we might hope, at least we will get a clear outcome about the list quality.
I have mentioned this before but I know that this time last year a key football figure at the Club described the list as “not great”.
Where that came from I will keep to myself, but it was from a (still employed) senior source and thus credible.
Certainly did not thrill me at the time.
Which, for me, put the entire team’s performance last season in a totally different context: the first half being due to great coaching (?) and the second reverting to actual list capability (?).
So, unlike most on here I am looking at this entire situation quite sceptically.
Not saying that I am not wishing RTB the best, just that I am sceptical about the cattle.

 

[MordySaint]

stavro#4 has really summarised the situation brilliantly.
Even if RTB proves to be less successful than we might hope, at least we will get a clear outcome about the list quality.
I have mentioned this before but I know that this time last year a key football figure at the Club described the list as “not great”.
Where that came from I will keep to myself, but it was from a (still employed) senior source and thus credible.
Certainly did not thrill me at the time.
Which, for me, put the entire team’s performance last season in a totally different context: the first half being due to great coaching (?) and the second reverting to actual list capability (?).
So, unlike most on here I am looking at this entire situation quite sceptically.
Not saying that I am not wishing RTB the best, just that I am sceptical about the cattle.

I reckon our cattle is OK -> Good.

The issue is we been poorly coached for over 10 years now and been driven by a non-football focused administration.

Those days are over now, i'm predicting deep finals unless we have an injury ravaged year.

 

[stavro#4]

stavro#4 has really summarised the situation brilliantly.
Even if RTB proves to be less successful than we might hope, at least we will get a clear outcome about the list quality.
I have mentioned this before but I know that this time last year a key football figure at the Club described the list as “not great”.
Where that came from I will keep to myself, but it was from a (still employed) senior source and thus credible.
Certainly did not thrill me at the time.
Which, for me, put the entire team’s performance last season in a totally different context: the first half being due to great coaching (?) and the second reverting to actual list capability (?).
So, unlike most on here I am looking at this entire situation quite sceptically.
Not saying that I am not wishing RTB the best, just that I am sceptical about the cattle.

I reckon our cattle is OK -> Good.

The issue is we been poorly coached for over 10 years now and been driven by a non-football focused administration.

Those days are over now, i'm predicting deep finals unless we have an injury ravaged year.

I think we have a lot of players that have shown some very good stuff and never nailed the consistency.

That’s down to leadership coaching and standards.

But ultimately, in 12 months time - we will have a very clear direction. That’s all we could ask for as opposed to living in mediocrity

 

[gringo2011]

I think we have a lot of players that have shown some very good stuff and never nailed the consistency.

That’s down to leadership coaching and standards.

But ultimately, in 12 months time - we will have a very clear direction. That’s all we could ask for as opposed to living in mediocrity

To me the list looks underperforming.

King, Gresham and Snags all have gears to go up. Sinclair, Steele and Crouch couldn't do much more.

Players who missed footy or underperformed this year
Coffield
Clark
Marshall
Gresham
Hayes
Jones
Billings
Hill
Howard
Paton
McKenzie
Sharman

Get all of them playing at their best and we are a different side.

 

[stavro#4]

To me the list looks underperforming.

King, Gresham and Snags all have gears to go up. Sinclair, Steele and Crouch couldn't do much more.

Players who missed footy or underperformed this year
Coffield
Clark
Marshall
Gresham
Hayes
Jones
Billings
Hill
Howard
Paton
McKenzie
Sharman

Get all of them playing at their best and we are a different side.

What is our onfield identity?

In 2020 we were known for attacking football, slingshot goals, exciting - but with a good, not great defensive side.

We were found out against the best sides.

Outside of “pressure”. We aren’t known for much else.

Ross touched on this in a roundabout way. Once we work out an identity. We will be able to work out ceilings, quality and needs of the list moving forward.

 

[saintmike65]

And Ratts, Watters, Neald and a heap of others. Leppisch maybe even, although he probably deserves another go.

Those Doyen coaches are really rare. Ross Lyon is a couple of straight kicks off being in the doyen club IMO. Probably only Roos, Clarko, Matthews, Hardwick, Horse and Chris Scott for the modern to current era are in that group. Even Malthouse who was well respected sits out of it due to his Carlton legacy.... actually Pagan was Carltoned too.

We’re very fortunate to have Ross back at the helm..he’s an elite coach, one of the best in the business!

 

[gringo2011]

What is our onfield identity?

In 2020 we were known for attacking football, slingshot goals, exciting - but with a good, not great defensive side.

We were found out against the best sides.

Outside of “pressure”. We aren’t known for much else.

Ross touched on this in a roundabout way. Once we work out an identity. We will be able to work out ceilings, quality and needs of the list moving forward.

Not exploiting the stand rule and 6/6/6 was detrimental. Poor forward structure. Transition was s**t. Plenty of things to fix that should improve us.

 

[FQFjt]

We’re very fortunate to have Ross back at the helm..he’s an elite coach, one of the best in the business!

Absolutely. Outside of Clarko and Hardwick, Ross's track record is just about as good as anyone's. And I am firmly of the view that he will be even better this time around. As I've said repeatedly, the AFL's obsession with young coaches is a copy cat trend with no good rationale, and it is at odds with basically all other professional sports. Ross would be one younger than many (possibly most) of the managers at the World Cup.

 

[Joffaboy]

stavro#4 has really summarised the situation brilliantly.
Even if RTB proves to be less successful than we might hope, at least we will get a clear outcome about the list quality.
I have mentioned this before but I know that this time last year a key football figure at the Club described the list as “not great”.
Where that came from I will keep to myself, but it was from a (still employed) senior source and thus credible.
Certainly did not thrill me at the time.
Which, for me, put the entire team’s performance last season in a totally different context: the first half being due to great coaching (?) and the second reverting to actual list capability (?).
So, unlike most on here I am looking at this entire situation quite sceptically.
Not saying that I am not wishing RTB the best, just that I am sceptical about the cattle.

I was told from a source that the list was told to run dead mid season so it wouldn't get picked up in the draft

 

[Sun Ra]

I was told from a source that the list was told to run dead mid season so it wouldn't get picked up in the draft

 

[stfan]

Is sneaking into finals on the back of an easy fixture really the best thing for us long term?

Which was my point, that for real improvement we need to improve our list significantly. And just sneaking into the 8 means little.

It just creates false hope and makes you think you’re better than you are. I’m hoping we play all the best teams twice to know where we’re at and if we aren’t good enough we’ll get the draft picks to be good enough.

This will hopefully be in part by much better development of our players, than we have done in many years. But also it needs to be with new cattle as well.

2023 is really just the first year of getting our house in order to become a successful club.