Opinion AUSTRALIAN Politics: Adelaide Board Discussion Part 5

[Slippery Pete]

It would be so rare it's not even worth commenting on (and picked up by Drs) that anyone would be pushing anything on their child.

First it wasn’t happening, now it’s “rare.”

The frequency is neither here nor there. I don’t care if it only happens once. It’s one time too many.

A medical policy of “affirming” a toddler’s “perceived gender identity” shouldn’t be offered, promoted, or written anywhere, in any policy, in any medical establishment in the country.

And any medical professional who practices it should be deregistered.

 

[Crow till I die]

First it wasn’t happening, now it’s “rare.”

The frequency is neither here nor there. I don’t care if it only happens once. It’s one time too many.

A medical policy of “affirming” a toddler’s “perceived gender identity” shouldn’t be offered, promoted, or written anywhere, in any policy, in any medical establishment in the country.

And any medical professional who practices it should be deregistered.

I forgot to add previously, at age 3 most kids can just about recognise letters of the alphabet and they may just be starting have unassisted baths (ie their parents don't need to be with them to make sure they are washed and they don't drown)

 

[Cap]

First it wasn’t happening, now it’s “rare.”

The frequency is neither here nor there. I don’t care if it only happens once. It’s one time too many.

A medical policy of “affirming” a toddler’s “perceived gender identity” shouldn’t be offered, promoted, or written anywhere, in any policy, in any medical establishment in the country.

And any medical professional who practices it should be deregistered.

That's the second time you've made up its not happening, no one said that.

But we know you don't care, that's the point.

 

[Cap]

you are right - we are projecting comments from you guys on the metaphorical big screen and calling them out

You support that many sex offenders peope made a website

Republican Sexual Predators, Abusers, and Enablers Pt. 1

I took my anger over the Kavanaugh hearing and confirmation and invested it in documenting the Republicans long history of sexual predators, abusers, and those who make excuses for them. There’s a list of about 45 that I began with but they are always...

www.dailykos.com

We all know who is projecting and we understand what the term means too.

 

[Slippery Pete]

From a recent FOI request:

“There were 2067 young people attending public [gender] clinics in 2021 [in Australia], almost 10 times the number in 2014, when there were 211 children. The number of under 18s being prescribed puberty suppressing drugs shot up from five in 2014 to 624 in 2019…"”

 

[Crow till I die]

You support that many sex offenders peope made a website

Republican Sexual Predators, Abusers, and Enablers Pt. 1

I took my anger over the Kavanaugh hearing and confirmation and invested it in documenting the Republicans long history of sexual predators, abusers, and those who make excuses for them. There’s a list of about 45 that I began with but they are always...

www.dailykos.com

We all know who is projecting and we understand what the term means too.

What side of politics does not have them - there is a long list of the ones you support there too. Do we have a party clean of them?

Massive List of Democrats Involved in Sex Crimes Against Children Goes Viral

A list of Democrats and officials involved in sex crimes against children was published on the internet and went viral.

thepeoplesvoice.tv

But you deflect this issue Pete flagged because it is black and white - leave the kids alone - don't have government coerce them

 

[Cap]

What side of politics does not have them - there is a long list of the ones you support there too. Do we have a party clean of them?

Massive List of Democrats Involved in Sex Crimes Against Children Goes Viral

A list of Democrats and officials involved in sex crimes against children was published on the internet and went viral.

thepeoplesvoice.tv

But you deflect this issue Pete flagged because it is black and white - leave the kids alone - don't have government coerce them

I'm sure there is, but that seems a lot shorter list though (i did get a laugh about Harvey W)...., but again, I'm Australian (unaligned) I don't follow a US party. That's on you. If you can sleep at night supporting all those sex offenders good for you.

But Govts don't coerce anyone. Load of garbage.

 

[Crow till I die]

I'm sure there is, but that seems a lot shorter list though (i did get a laugh about Harvey W)...., but again, I'm Australian (unaligned) I don't follow a US party. That's on you. If you can sleep at night supporting all those sex offenders good for you.

But Govts don't coerce anyone. Load of garbage.

Yes - you do write a lot of garbage

 

[Slippery Pete]

Yes - you do write a lot of garbage

He’s technically right, it’s people who do the coercing. People who hide behind the mendacious edifice of government and corporate bureaucracy.

 

[Cap]

Yes - you do write a lot of garbage

As I said, a lot of projection from you this morning

 

[Cap]

He’s technically right, it’s people who do the coercing. People who hide behind the mendacious edifice of government and corporate bureaucracy.

Yep, they've got nothing else to do than coerce society away from your vision of utopia.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Still waiting for those receipts

View attachment 1888759

Ahhhhh…. Lets take a little trip back in time to june 25, 26, 27, 28, 29th in 2022.. right around the time the US Sup court overuled Roe vs Wade.. and the thread..

Banter - The Adelaide Board Politics/COVID Thread Part 2 (WARNING NOT FOR THE FAINT-HEARTED)

www.bigfooty.com

Slippery Pete ends one of his comments on that thread (comment #1742)
with…



I mean… what a strange ultimatum to be giving people.. how is anyone meant to read that last paragraph of his comment and not take it as an ultimatum as far as Pete is concerned..

He’s suggesting there that if he, and his ilk, change their ideology to allow abortions for those who’s “life is under threat, raped or due to incest”.. then will it be ok that all other abortions be banned?...

That just screams “im against giving abortion to rape vicitms, incest victims and people whos life are in danger.. but may change my mind on that if we can make sure all other abortions are banned..”

How else could this paragraph be interpreted?

He then, a couple of days later when asked..


Reponds with his usual sly little deflections, subject changes and weasel words..

The question asked of Pete and his buddies was very simple…

“Are you up for forcing a raped 12 year old to go ahead with a resulting unwanted pregnancy too”?

But no… Pete clearly couldnt, and never did, bring himself to answer this very basic question..

instead he did what he always does when cornered and knows if he actually answers the question truthfully he’d be exposed..

He deflects and says he only wants to discuss the part of the abortion issue that he can do so comfortably..

But its fine.. thats the great thing about the internet.. we can go back and bring this question forward for him and actually give Petey the opportunity to finally put it all to rest..

He can now answer the question above for all of us.. and tell us all he’s definitely not against a 12 year old rape victim getting an abortion.. if that is his actual position..

So… Over to you Petey…

“Are you up for forcing a raped 12 year old to go ahead with a resulting unwanted pregnancy too”?

Simple yes or no will suffice buddy..

 

[arrowman]

<We're discussing "trans kids" and in particular 3 year olds in gender clinics. I have no coherent argument on this topic, how can I deflect?>

I know!

"Look at this list of Republican paedophiles!"

 

[Slippery Pete]

Bearded Clam Rant fxxxck fxxxxk fxxxk

I don’t think a raped 12 year old should be forced.

You are asking this question because you know you can’t prosecute any coherent, intellectual, logical or moral argument in favour of 98% of abortions — which are able to occur, in some jurisdictions, up to the point of birth.

You know how repugnant that is and so your response is always to throw your hands in the air and shout “it’s none of my business!”

If that pathetic position of yours has changed, please enlighten me. I’m all ears.

Personally, I think the killing of an innocent infant is other people’s business. Most people do — their only point of disagreement is at what point in the pregnancy it constitutes someone else’s business.

It is only degenerates like you who believe abortion should be like going through a McDonalds drive-thru.

Also, it’s very ironic that you’re able to sustain an 18-month long vendetta based on something so exceedingly rare, yet you believe that 624 Australian kids who took puberty blockers in 2019 is “nothing to see here” and “barely a blip on the radar.”

 

[ringo200]

I'd be interested to know what people think gender affirming care actually looks like for a three year old and what is the actual harm being caused there?

I imagine the age range is not set there because they expect 3 year olds to be coming in asking for medical care around their gender, it would more be a catch all so they can act appropriately if the situation does come up.

If people are interested you can read through the research and recommendations for care

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/26895269.2022.2100644?src=recsys

Chapter 7 relates to children and lays out the reasoning behind affirming care for children and the research behind it, the core argument being:

A vast empirical psychological literature indicates early childhood experiences frequently set the stage for lifelong patterns of risk and/or resilience and contribute to a trajectory of development more or less conducive to well-being and a positive quality of life (Anda et al., Citation2010; Masten & Cicchetti, Citation2010; Shonkoff & Garner, 2012). The available research indicates, in general, gender diverse youth are at greater risk for experiencing psychological difficulties (Ristori & Steensma, Citation2016) than age- matched cisgender peers as a result of encountering destructive experiences, including trauma and maltreatment stemming from gender diversity-related rejection and other harsh, non-accepting interactions (Barrow & Apostle, Citation2018; Giovanardi et al., Citation2018; Gower, Rider, Brown et al., Citation2018; Grossman & D’Augelli, Citation2006; Hendricks & Testa, Citation2012; Reisner, Greytak et al., Citation2015; Roberts et al., Citation2014; Tishelman & Neumann-Mascis, Citation2018). Further, literature indicates prepubescent children who are well accepted in their gender diverse identities are generally well-adjusted (Malpas et al., Citation2018; Olson et al., Citation2016).

This approach potentially can mitigate some of the common mental health risks faced by transgender and gender diverse (TGD) teens, as frequently described in literature (Chen et al., Citation2021; Edwards-Leeper et al., Citation2017; Haas et al., 2011; Leibowitz & de Vries, Citation2016; Reisner, Bradford et al., Citation2015; Reisner, Greytak et al., Citation2015).

Basically children can experience a lot of harm and psychological difficulties when they are not accepted by those around them and do a lot better when they are accepted.

If you look into it you can see concerns raised by some here are taken into consideration, for example an underlying principle of the recommendations is:

3) diverse gender expressions in children cannot always be assumed to reflect a transgender identity or gender incongruence (Ehrensaft, Citation2016; Ehrensaft, Citation2018; Rael et al., Citation2019);

and it recommends that famliy/cultural circumstances and beliefs need to be taken into account, and the core is what the child is experiencing and what the child wants.

Working with children is a complex endeavor, involving an understanding of a child’s developmental needs at various ages, the ability to comprehend the forces impacting a child’s well-being both inside and outside the family (Kaufman & Tishelman, Citation2018), and an ability to fully assess when a child is unhappy or experiencing significant mental health difficulties, related or unrelated to gender.

What we do know is harmful to children is trying to convince them what they are going through isn't real and they just need to get over it, and this is the case whether or not they are going to choose to continue with their current identity in the future.

conversion therapies for gender diversity in children (i.e., any “therapeutic” attempts to compel a gender diverse child through words, actions, or both to identify with, or behave in accordance with, the gender associated with the sex assigned at birth are harmful and we repudiate their use (APA, Citation2021; Ashley, Citation2019b, Paré, Citation2020; SAMHSA, Citation2015; Telfer et al., Citation2018; UN Human Rights Council, Citation2020).

Unless you start getting into social contagion or rapid onset type nonsense there's really nothing to be afraid of here.

Trans people over time will become more and more accepted by society and this is a good thing for everyone.

 

[MrKK]

This is a meh piece, but sharing for the tremendous burn about Albo.

He likes to remind us that people have been underestimating him his whole life. After his first lacklustre 12 months in office, some of us are starting to understand why.

What's next for bland state Labor? Maybe not even they know - InDaily

indaily.com.au

 

[Bearded Clam]

I don’t think a raped 12 year old should be forced.

well i’m glad you’ve finally been able to give us your view and its a sensible one..

We can now go part the way to welcoming Slippery Pete to 2024 from the 1950’s…

Maybe theres hope for you yet!

I don’t think a raped 12 year old should be forced.

You are asking this question because you know you can’t prosecute any coherent, intellectual, logical or moral argument in favour of 98% of abortions — which are able to occur, in some jurisdictions, up to the point of birth.

You know how repugnant that is and so your response is always to throw your hands in the air and shout “it’s none of my business!”

ahh, no… my view is, and always has been, that abortion should be free and easily accessible to all women no matter their age, race, class etc or the circumstances of their pregnancy.

As it isnt anyone’s business but the woman who is pregnant.

You cant even give us all a decent reason why it should be any of your fxxkn business..

And this utter nonsense that you and the anti-choice brigade keep sprouting about all these women supposedly getting nearly all the way through their pregnancy and just deciding out of the blue that they no longer want to give birth.. is just that..

Utter fxxkn nonsense that not one of them, including you, has ever backed with a single drop of evidence.

Personally, I think the killing of an innocent infant is other people’s business. Most people do — their only point of disagreement is at what point in the pregnancy it constitutes someone else’s business.

It is only degenerates like you who believe abortion should be like going through a McDonalds drive-thru.

No this is just more hysterical nonsense and you know it.

Sure.. Its fine for you to hold this personal view.. whats not fine is you trying to impose it onto the lives of pregnant women, women you dont even know, that dont hold your views.

Again, my view…
all I would like to see is free and easily accessed health services provided for pregnant women where they can go and be helped by experienced and qualified doctors.

Its none of my business.

I think you’ll find that this view is the view of the majority of Australian and American citizens… you just need to take a look at the results of votes taken on abortion rights held in some of even the most conservative Republican states in the US since the Roe v Wade overturning to know this..

The degenerate views are the anti choice crowd desperately attempting to push their own arsebackward 1950’s views onto others private lives.

And while we are discussing the use of the label “Degenerate”..

I’m pretty sure a grown man spending a lot of time worrying about the genitals of young children, like you clearly do, would be the very definition of “degenerate”..

Actually.. there’s probably another word other than degenerate society, and the law, uses to describe those infatuated with childrens genitals..

Also, it’s very ironic that you’re able to sustain an 18-month long vendetta based on something so exceedingly rare

Bahahaha.. thats fxxkn rich coming from the poster that continually drags up old posts from other posters… you dragged up one of my old posts from 2020 about the vaccine just the other day.

Hypocrite much?..

 

[Cap]

This is a meh piece, but sharing for the tremendous burn about Albo.

What's next for bland state Labor? Maybe not even they know - InDaily

indaily.com.au

I give Labor a 75% chance of being re-elected in SA and in Australia.

It's probably 85% here, though. Somehow in SA Labor can be completely meh and it will take us 3 elections to move them on.

 

[El Doederino]

This is a meh piece, but sharing for the tremendous burn about Albo.

What's next for bland state Labor? Maybe not even they know - InDaily

indaily.com.au

Albo is the least interesting PM I can remember, and not in a good way.

There's an ABC series coming up on the Abbott/Turnbull/Morrison hullabulloo. I'm looking forward to that. I can't imagine them making a doco on Albo. Will be dull as dish water. And he tried to project himself as the groovy politician, spinning decks and wearing band t-shirts.

 

[Cap]

Cyclone track maps could be issued as early as Saturday, as BOM meets with Queensland's disaster committee

A tropical low developing in the Coral Sea is forecast to strengthen into a cyclone over the weekend and may track south south-westerly towards the Queensland coast.

www.abc.net.au

Another cyclone on its way 'allegedly'

 

[Slippery Pete]

You cant even give us all a decent reason why it should be any of your fxxkn business..

We’ve been over this many times, feel free to read all my posts from the same place you found the last one.

The expression “my body, my choice” disregards the body of the infant, and therefore it is void and ridiculous in that context. That’s where I stand.

Bahahaha.. thats fxxkn rich coming from the poster that continually drags up old posts from other posters… you dragged up one of my old posts from 2020 about the vaccine just the other day.

Hypocrite much?..

No issue with bringing up old posts. I wish you’d do it more often, considering how right I am about most things.

My point was to highlight how inconsistently you take notice of what’s “rare” depending on which agenda you’re running.

 

[arrowman]

If people are interested you can read through the research and recommendations for care

WPATH is an advocacy group for trans ideology. Nothing they produce can be taken as objective analysis / research.

 

[arrowman]

the actual occurrence of this would be minuscule to start with

likely to impact very few people

So, your level of interest in / concern about an issue depends on how many people it affects. Doesn't matter if / how it impacts negatively on the people it does affect, just as long as there aren't too many of them.

Gender affirming care is the act of acknowledging and treating a patient within their perceived gender without question.

"Without question". Which is just as well, I suppose, because "asking questions" aka exploratory therapy is now illegal in Victoria.

Do you understand any of the many reasons why a child / teenager might believe they are "trans"? I doubt it.

So yes, I'm more than happy to support the experts in their field on this matter.

Some things you need to know about these "experts":

1. They are not objective, and they have a conflict of interest. Their practices, their income stream, their very reputations depend on defending the notion of "trans kids" and their rejection of anything other than full affirmation.

2. They are not the only "experts", whose opinions can/should be accepted without question. There are many other experts who disagree with your selected "experts".

3. They think it's appropriate for three year olds to attend a gender clinic. Three. Year. Olds. Sorry, but that's bat$$t and I don't care how many PhDs they have between them, it's bat$$t.

There's a video online of a woman in charge of a paediatric gender clinic in North America - can't recall her name - telling her audience about how a toddler who pops open the fasteners on his onesie and wears it like a skirt is expressing a trans identity. She's one of your "experts".

This is bloody well fantastic. What would you rather?.. these children and their families to instead be hidden away from society and given no help at all just cause you find it challenging to accept that not everyone thinks or feels like you?

Or alternatively, "these children and their families" could be given more options than "affirmation without question". Or maybe we could be more accepting of gender non-conforming kids / kids who may be nascent gays/lesbians for what they are, without telling them they need to change their bodies.

Some of those families are homophobic, or at least phobic about their child being GNC. Some of them have genuine concerns and all they are seeing is "experts" who tell them those concerns are real and transition is the answer.

This culture war nonsense is being pushed by rank political opportunists who couldnt give two fxxks about these children and their families and the heartache they have to endure.

Its simply their way of dogwhistling to their knuckle dragging followers.

You really haven't read / heard anything from the concerned professionals, have you?

That isn't medical intervention

"Medical" as such? No. But as Dr Hillary Cass said in her review of the Tavistock clinic in the UK, affirmation / social transitioning is not a neutral act. Affirm / socially transition a confused child, and you are locking in their self-perception. It's the first step towards transition, and once you've taken that step it's difficult to move off that path.

 

[Bearded Clam]

So, your level of interest in / concern about an issue depends on how many people it affects. Doesn't matter if / how it impacts negatively on the people it does affect, just as long as there aren't too many of them.

"Without question". Which is just as well, I suppose, because "asking questions" aka exploratory therapy is now illegal in Victoria.

Do you understand any of the many reasons why a child / teenager might believe they are "trans"? I doubt it.

Some things you need to know about these "experts":

1. They are not objective, and they have a conflict of interest. Their practices, their income stream, their very reputations depend on defending the notion of "trans kids" and their rejection of anything other than full affirmation.

2. They are not the only "experts", whose opinions can/should be accepted without question. There are many other experts who disagree with your selected "experts".

3. They think it's appropriate for three year olds to attend a gender clinic. Three. Year. Olds. Sorry, but that's bat$$t and I don't care how many PhDs they have between them, it's bat$$t.

There's a video online of a woman in charge of a paediatric gender clinic in North America - can't recall her name - telling her audience about how a toddler who pops open the fasteners on his onesie and wears it like a skirt is expressing a trans identity. She's one of your "experts".

Or alternatively, "these children and their families" could be given more options than "affirmation without question". Or maybe we could be more accepting of gender non-conforming kids / kids who may be nascent gays/lesbians for what they are, without telling them they need to change their bodies.

Some of those families are homophobic, or at least phobic about their child being GNC. Some of them have genuine concerns and all they are seeing is "experts" who tell them those concerns are real and transition is the answer.




You really haven't read / heard anything from the concerned professionals, have you?

"Medical" as such? No. But as Dr Hillary Cass said in her review of the Tavistock clinic in the UK, affirmation / social transitioning is not a neutral act. Affirm / socially transition a confused child, and you are locking in their self-perception. It's the first step towards transition, and once you've taken that step it's difficult to move off that path.

Dr Hilary Cass…

The Dr that most of the trans community in the UK had very serious doubts about whether she had their best interests at heart..

The Cass Review

The Cass Review An ongoing blog by Claire a trans person

translucent.org.uk

Strange that Dr Cass was chosen to undertake this review given what was discovered on her social media accounts..

“It was very quickly discovered that Dr Cass appeared to follow a number of trans hostile groups on her twitter account – groups that are actively working to dismantle trans rights in the UK and who frequently create and spread misinformation about trans people under the guise of feminism, women’s rights and child safeguarding.”

No possibility of biased on Dr Cass’s behalf there…

social media is great isnt it.. how do these people not realise the rest of the world can see everything on their facebook, twitter etc?

“This was followed by the discovery that Dr Cass did not appear to follow any LGBT+ or Trans groups, although this changed quickly after this was pointed out.”

Well.. at least she made a late attempt..

“There has been no explanation from Dr Cass to date as to why this is the case, nor acknowledgement that it is a cause of concern by the trans community.”

Wow… so she never even bothered to address these valid concerns?.. wonder why not?

“First and foremost, and most alarming, was that there are no transgender people involved in the review at a decision making or process review level, effectively making it cisgender run, cisgender led, and cisgender decided.

Once again we see transgender healthcare in the UK decided by cisgender people – a position common in the NHS.

Even worse, the website’s Governance page clearly stated under “Membership” that trans people were specifically excluded from this level of decision making – quite possibly an act of direct discrimination under EA2010.”

So.. dear Dr Cass undertook a review on this subject and didnt include one single trans person in the review or decision making process?..

Really?… whats that about?..



Anyway Arrow.. this is a review undertaken into a medical service that is UK based and its alleged shortcomings.

Not exactly sure how it relates to Australian medical and psycological health services and the Royal Melbourne Hospital.. unless they are being run by GIDS (Gender Identity Development Service) who in turn is run by the Tavistock & Portman NHS Foundation Trust.. which was the subject of the UK review..

At the end of the day, given that this is very rare in Australia and that the medical and psycology services and the rule of law in Australia are all involved in any decisions..

I think its really a non issue.

And no ones business but the child and their family who, I bet, would rather they werent used as a political dogwhistle..

 

[ringo200]

WPATH is an advocacy group for trans ideology. Nothing they produce can be taken as objective analysis / research.

Cheers, cool.