2017 Rising Star Discussion

[Procrastinator35]

Which team of the week are you talking about?

The one put together by some random AFL journalist and that asks for our opinions to pick the final bench spot, or the Champion Data version which uses their stats that are often criticized?

Sorry, but if you're using TOTW nominations as justification for his potential inclusion in the AA side, you've got nothing.

So we'll just then rely upon his performances this season then, as one of the elite defenders by foot in the competition.

 

[Jeremias]

So we'll just then rely upon his performances this season then

More sensible, but you'd still be wrong.

 

[Procrastinator35]

More sensible, but you'd still be wrong.

Up until 2 weeks ago, he was leading all defenders for disposal efficiency across the entire comp @ 85%....That is in no way a subjective measure & is no mean feat.....He also still averages 21 disposals per game & over 400 meters gained per match.

 

[Jeremias]

Up until 2 weeks ago, he was leading all defenders for disposal efficiency across the entire comp @ 85%

This is just getting pathetic now.

Disposal efficiency is one of the more meaningless statistics in the game. Please don't tell me you think it holds any value in AA discussions.

He also still averages 21 disposals per game & over 400 meters gained per match.

No he doesn't.

Any other crap you'd like to put forward?

 

[Cynic]

This is just getting pathetic now.

Disposal efficiency is one of the more meaningless statistics in the game. Please don't tell me you think it holds any value in AA discussions.



No he doesn't.

Any other crap you'd like to put forward?

He's a good young prospect who deserves to be in the discussion of potential rising star award winners?

 

[Procrastinator35]

This is just getting pathetic now.

Disposal efficiency is one of the more meaningless statistics in the game. Please don't tell me you think it holds any value in AA discussions.
No he doesn't.
Any other crap you'd like to put forward?

No, it isn't.

Actually, the only thing rather funny & pathetic is your hyperbolic, over-the-top reactions.

Here's Burto's stats for this year chum:

Ryan Burton Career
Season Num MT Team K Avg H Avg D Avg M Avg HO Avg T Avg FF FA G Avg B SC Rat Avg
2017 5 12 Hawthorn 166 13.8 85 7.1 251 20.9 71 5.9 0 0 38 3.2 5 7 3 0.3 0 18 1035 86.3


20.9 average disposal.....Equates to 21 by rounding off in my books.

Meters gained average in 2017:

 

[Jeremias]

He's a good young prospect who deserves to be in the discussion of potential rising star award winners?

Absolutely!

He's having an excellent year and is rightly being discussed as a potential RS winner. Right now I'd probably have him in second place behind SPP, but he's certainly in the conversation.

No, it isn't.

You checked the stats and still couldn't see you are wrong.

Burton averages 362 metres gained per game. Last I checked that's less than 400, but I will admit maths is not my strong point.

Why you feel the need to embellish things is beyond me - and reeks of desperation.

 

[HairyO]

No.

You should be excited by his progress but you're very clearly overrating him if you think he's even in contention for the AA squad.

How many times do you need to be picked in the Team of the Week to be considered for AA do you think?

 

[Jeremias]

How many times do you need to be picked in the Team of the Week to be considered for AA do you think?

Which TOTW are you talking about?

 

[Procrastinator35]

He's a good young prospect who deserves to be in the discussion of potential rising star award winners?

Don't feed the troll:

2017 Statistical Rankings

Ranked 1st among rising stars in Total Kicks

Ranked 1st among rising stars in Total Disposals

Ranked 2nd among rising stars in Total Marks

Ranked 1st among rising stars in Total Supercoach Score

Ranked 1st among rising stars in Total AFL Fantasy Score

Ranked 1st among rising stars in Total Uncontested Possessions

Ranked 1st among rising stars in Total Effective Disposals

Ranked 1st among rising stars in Total Rebound 50s

Ranked 2nd among rising stars in Total One Percenters

Ranked 4th among rising stars in Total Bounces

Ranked 4th among rising stars in Total Time On Ground %

Ranked 1st among rising stars in Kicks Per Game

Ranked 1st among rising stars in Disposals Per Game

Ranked 2nd among rising stars in Marks Per Game

Ranked 1st among rising stars in Supercoach Score Per Game

Ranked 1st among rising stars in AFL Fantasy Score Per Game

Ranked 2nd among rising stars in Uncontested Possessions Per Game

Ranked 1st among rising stars in Effective Disposals Per Game

Ranked 4th among rising stars in Clangers Per Game

Ranked 1st among rising stars in Rebound 50s Per Game

 

[TazHawk15]

Got absolutely torn to shreds 6 weeks ago by my Carlton and Essendon supporting mates after I said that I believed Burton would win the rising star. Clear favourite now.

As long as he does not get injured it's his award.

If his form holds up he is up to his eyeballs in the AA squad, which would be amazing for a kid who has played about 20 games.

 

[HairyO]

Which TOTW are you talking about?

The AFL one.

I know above you mocked it because its random journos. But here is the thing, arent most of the vote givers on the Rising Star award random journos?

What do you think they base their votes on? Champion Data? Virtual Brownlow votes? Bookies? Vibe?

How is the weekly Team of the Week any different to any other method of selecting who played well?

 

[Procrastinator35]

You checked the stats and still couldn't see you are wrong.

Burton averages 362 metres gained per game. Last I checked that's less than 400, but I will admit maths is not my strong point.

Why you feel the need to embellish things is beyond me - and reeks of desperation.

Ah yes, So you claimed my possession average was bullshit also....I'll throw back the hyperbole & remind you to stay civil.

But again....The only thing that REEKS of desperation is your hyperbole chum......Er, you were saying?

 

[footyfan1978]

Congrats to McCluggage on his nomination, but gee whiz, young Blake Hardwick was stiff to miss out....Kept Betts to one goal, & had 19 possesions at 90% efficiency.

It's a strange selection as there were quite a few others better than him this week and it's not like he had been unlucky in previous weeks

Number 3 draft selection.....Has an odour of P/C about it, to be sure.

Hardwick very unlucky to not get the nomination.

Rose coloured glasses maybe.

I am not sure if age comes into Rising Star thing but just quick glimpse of some supercoach scores of some players that may have started the season on 10 games in career or less not sure how Hardwick is stiff compared to a few others without the nomination this week.

Some of the below might have played over 10, not 100% sure. Have a feeling maybe Mathieson and Menegola may have already

Greenwood if not nominated already is very stiff and Charlie Curnow not far behind.

Rd 14 Supercoach score
Hugh Greenwood 127
Sam Menegola 123
Rhys Mathieson 122
Brayden Fiorini 96
Charlie Curnow 92
Ryan Burton 91
Nic Newman 90
Blake Hardwick 84
Tom Phillips 84
James Parsons 82
Sam Powell-Pepper 82
Hugh McCluggage 77
Alex Witherden 76
Daniel Butler 76
Jarrod Berry 76

 

[Procrastinator35]

Rose coloured glasses maybe.

I am not sure if age comes into Rising Star thing but just quick glimpse of some supercoach scores of some players that may have started the season on 10 games in career or less not sure how Hardwick is stiff compared to a few others without the nomination this week.

Some of the below might have played over 10, not 100% sure. Have a feeling maybe Mathieson and Menegola may have already

Greenwood if not nominated already is very stiff and Charlie Curnow not far behind.

Rd 14 Supercoach score
Hugh Greenwood 127
Sam Menegola 123
Rhys Mathieson 122
Brayden Fiorini 96
Charlie Curnow 92
Ryan Burton 91
Nic Newman 90
Blake Hardwick 84
Tom Phillips 84
James Parsons 82
Sam Powell-Pepper 82
Hugh McCluggage 77
Alex Witherden 76
Daniel Butler 76
Jarrod Berry 76

Greenwood is a 25 year old mature ager from Tasmania mate.

And yes, Curnow definitely deserves a nom, & will no doubt get one.

Hardwick kept Betts to a single goal on his own home deck & had 19 possies at an 89% efficiency.

 

[HairyO]

Rose coloured glasses maybe.

I am not sure if age comes into Rising Star thing but just quick glimpse of some supercoach scores of some players that may have started the season on 10 games in career or less not sure how Hardwick is stiff compared to a few others without the nomination this week.

Some of the below might have played over 10, not 100% sure. Have a feeling maybe Mathieson and Menegola may have already

Greenwood if not nominated already is very stiff and Charlie Curnow not far behind.

Rd 14 Supercoach score
Hugh Greenwood 127
Sam Menegola 123
Rhys Mathieson 122
Brayden Fiorini 96
Charlie Curnow 92
Ryan Burton 91
Nic Newman 90
Blake Hardwick 84
Tom Phillips 84
James Parsons 82
Sam Powell-Pepper 82
Hugh McCluggage 77
Alex Witherden 76
Daniel Butler 76
Jarrod Berry 76

You need to look at the age of some of those players. Under 21 on January 1 Im pretty sure is the rule. Not just under 10 games played.

And points scored really only should be one of many indicators. Keeping Eddie Betts to 1 goal at Adelaide Oval would surely be worth a few points which would not generally be included in DT or Supercoach ?

 

[Cynic]

Rose coloured glasses maybe.

I am not sure if age comes into Rising Star thing but just quick glimpse of some supercoach scores of some players that may have started the season on 10 games in career or less not sure how Hardwick is stiff compared to a few others without the nomination this week.

Some of the below might have played over 10, not 100% sure. Have a feeling maybe Mathieson and Menegola may have already

Greenwood if not nominated already is very stiff and Charlie Curnow not far behind.

Rd 14 Supercoach score
Hugh Greenwood 127
Sam Menegola 123
Rhys Mathieson 122
Brayden Fiorini 96
Charlie Curnow 92
Ryan Burton 91
Nic Newman 90
Blake Hardwick 84
Tom Phillips 84
James Parsons 82
Sam Powell-Pepper 82
Hugh McCluggage 77
Alex Witherden 76
Daniel Butler 76
Jarrod Berry 76

Rd 14 Supercoach score
Hugh Greenwood 127*
Sam Menegola 123*
Rhys Mathieson 122*
Brayden Fiorini 96
Charlie Curnow 92
Ryan Burton 91*
Nic Newman 90*
Blake Hardwick 84
Tom Phillips 84*

All of Fiorini, Curnow & Hardwick could be argued as warranting it; there's definitely an argument as well that defensive efforts go unrewarded (well more the quality of your opponent) in these ratings which does mean Hardwick's performance against Betts may be being under valued.

Still it's that time of year when they just give it to players who've missed out so I'm sure they'll all get one soon.

 

[footyfan1978]

Spewing that Taranto basically out for rest of home and away. Reckon he was a fair chance if he got a run of form in coming months. Now he is no chance as that opportunity for 9 more rounds gone.

 

[footyfan1978]

Rd 14 Supercoach score
Hugh Greenwood 127*
Sam Menegola 123*
Rhys Mathieson 122*
Brayden Fiorini 96
Charlie Curnow 92
Ryan Burton 91*
Nic Newman 90*
Blake Hardwick 84
Tom Phillips 84*

All of Fiorini, Curnow & Hardwick could be argued as warranting it; there's definitely an argument as well that defensive efforts go unrewarded (well more the quality of your opponent) in these ratings which does mean Hardwick's performance against Betts may be being under valued.

Still it's that time of year when they just give it to players who've missed out so I'm sure they'll all get one soon.

I agree with you somewhat about defensive efforts most often unrewarded but champion data ranking system does include such things as pressure acts, spoils and a lot of defensive actions in their scores so closest thing to accurate feel for how players have gone each round in relation to others. Not fool proof by any means.
Hardwick certainly in the mix if he got an 84 this week.

 

[footyfan1978]

You need to look at the age of some of those players. Under 21 on January 1 Im pretty sure is the rule. Not just under 10 games played.

Cool, thanks mate. So Greenwood and Menegola certainly discounted on age then, from group I listed.

 

[HairyO]

Cool, thanks mate. So Greenwood and Menegola certainly discounted on age then, from group I listed.

And Mathieson played 11 games last year.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Rose coloured glasses maybe.

I am not sure if age comes into Rising Star thing but just quick glimpse of some supercoach scores of some players that may have started the season on 10 games in career or less not sure how Hardwick is stiff compared to a few others without the nomination this week.

Some of the below might have played over 10, not 100% sure. Have a feeling maybe Mathieson and Menegola may have already

Greenwood if not nominated already is very stiff and Charlie Curnow not far behind.

Rd 14 Supercoach score
Hugh Greenwood 127
Sam Menegola 123
Rhys Mathieson 122
Brayden Fiorini 96
Charlie Curnow 92
Ryan Burton 91
Nic Newman 90
Blake Hardwick 84
Tom Phillips 84
James Parsons 82
Sam Powell-Pepper 82
Hugh McCluggage 77
Alex Witherden 76
Daniel Butler 76
Jarrod Berry 76

Using SC as a guide means I can't take you seriously.

 

[Bostonian]

Burton should win it easily.

 

[footyfan1978]

Using SC as a guide means I can't take you seriously.

Totally discounting Champion Data Ranking system as simply a guide to how players performed relative to each other means more than satisfied you are not serious in attempts to be objective. Keep those rose coloured filters on.

Seriously not taking you serious.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Using SC as a guide means I can't take you seriously.

It's one measure among many....Eyes & game day sense are usually the best guide for mine.

Keeping the best small forward in the game currently on form, to a single goal, while racking up possessions & maintaining them for your side, is no mean feat for a rookie though.

If young McGrath did the same job for Essendon, then I dare say we'd be hearing all about it in this thread.