Preview 2017 Young Talent Time

[Bastyy]

I think the SANFL are in the process of updating their website. The new layout they used for the league final series looks great - hopefully they use it across everything next year and produce a similar thing for individual player stats. Still haven't found an easy way to get player stats (downloading round by round PDFs is fairly annoying). WAFL has some good data but the way they present it and make it accessible is horrible - hopefully they can afford an upgrade soon too.

The SANFL have also put up a page with the SA draft prospects for those interested that includes a write-up and a video on each: http://sanfl.com.au/drafttargets/ - I'm pretty keen on a lot of SA prospects at our picks this year including Fog, Krueger (if Dixon not available), and Crowden. Don't mind some others either.

Wish the WAFL would produce something similar (or AFL.com.au get their draft machine up given we are only just over two weeks out from draft now).

Is that Dom Barry as in the guy melbourne delisted a while back? Did he have a good year or something? I remember him being shithouse

 

[Walkingwounded]

I think the SANFL are in the process of updating their website. The new layout they used for the league final series looks great - hopefully they use it across everything next year and produce a similar thing for individual player stats. Still haven't found an easy way to get player stats (downloading round by round PDFs is fairly annoying). WAFL has some good data but the way they present it and make it accessible is horrible - hopefully they can afford an upgrade soon too.

The SANFL have also put up a page with the SA draft prospects for those interested that includes a write-up and a video on each: http://sanfl.com.au/drafttargets/ - I'm pretty keen on a lot of SA prospects at our picks this year including Fog, Krueger (if Dixon not available), and Crowden. Don't mind some others either.

Wish the WAFL would produce something similar (or AFL.com.au get their draft machine up given we are only just over two weeks out from draft now).

Yeh I’ve gone through most of the game day stat sheets.

From what I can gather Fogarty played 4 games in the firsts. None in Res or U18.

Debut game (round 4) got 18 possessions with 8 of them contested.! After that playing clearly injured as he states in interviews.

That’s it... not a large body of work to look at this year where he wasn’t hindered by the knee.

This is the link to his debut seems to be playing midfield, and forward. Not much to see, but the side step is there.. can imagine his side step would be hindered by a meniscus tear, hence good chunk of his game stopped when it was injured.



The following is last year in U18's where he collected 31 disposals, eight marks, five clearances and two goals. He would have been an under ager at this stage. Darcy Fogarty is #18 for Glenelg (Richmond colours). Lots of midfield time in this tape..



I can't tell if he is left foot or right foot, both are equally as good.

 

[E Shed]

Like the look of Fogarty there. A bit of Ryan Griffin in the explosive burst movement & shimmy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[salim malik]

You've got it arse about. Hamling is already going to be second tall to Peace. He is not a good enough kick to be a third defensive tall; He would be at Peel (doubtless this is your plan).

If we draft Naughton it will be because they view him as a better prospect than the other players available at pick 5 (or, who knows, pick 2), not because we think he is specifically going to be the fullback etc. At at this point in his career is primarily talked up as an intercept defender. He is yet to play as a number one or two defender at senior level and may never be one. An example being Lever who plays no. 3 behind Talia and Hartigan.

Naughton is 17/18 , hardly the age to play no I defender in the seniors. He was selected as the AA KD in the under 18,s though and now stands at 195 cm ,surely big enough to hold down a KD spot. Does his AA and what he achieved playing seniors count for anything or does form only apply to the mids who have only shown what they have in the 18,s . Naughton in his limited games at Peel showed a lot more ability than Pearce did in his time at Peel and Pearce is the great KD hope . Naughton is an AA, was under aged and has starred in his appearances at senior level against AFL trained opponents. Something that none of the other potential draftees have managed to do. Why he isnt listed amongst the top picks is hard to fathom.

 

[theGav56]

Naughton is 17/18 , hardly the age to play no I defender in the seniors. He was selected as the AA KD in the under 18,s though and now stands at 195 cm ,surely big enough to hold down a KD spot. Does his AA and what he achieved playing seniors count for anything or does form only apply to the mids who have only shown what they have in the 18,s . Naughton in his limited games at Peel showed a lot more ability than Pearce did in his time at Peel and Pearce is the great KD hope . Naughton is an AA, was under aged and has starred in his appearances at senior level against AFL trained opponents. Something that none of the other potential draftees have managed to do. Why he isnt listed amongst the top picks is hard to fathom.

If Pearce, Logue, Cox and Naughton were somehow all in the same draft pool I would have Naughton top of the board.

 

[Paracleet]

Naughton is 17/18 , hardly the age to play no I defender in the seniors. He was selected as the AA KD in the under 18,s though and now stands at 195 cm ,surely big enough to hold down a KD spot. Does his AA and what he achieved playing seniors count for anything or does form only apply to the mids who have only shown what they have in the 18,s . Naughton in his limited games at Peel showed a lot more ability than Pearce did in his time at Peel and Pearce is the great KD hope . Naughton is an AA, was under aged and has starred in his appearances at senior level against AFL trained opponents. Something that none of the other potential draftees have managed to do. Why he isnt listed amongst the top picks is hard to fathom.

Do you have some kind of google alert for Naughton posts so you can come on and reply to them without reading them?

Bolded, in order:
- No. If we drafted Naughton we would then have two AA U18 centre half backs on our list. Neither of whom will be playing there.

- Who cares. Good form at seniors level as a junior can indicate a good player, but a champ? Here is the hypothetical WA SOO team from afl.com earlier this year. How many of these had even played a senior game before they were drafted? (and all of them could have):

Off the top of my head I know Franklin was 1. Cripps none. Fyfe none. Fyfe!
I can think of some pretty B grade players with outstanding 17 year old form; D Rich for one.

- Maybe it's because the listers have seen the other players actually play, rather than just Naughton.

For the record: I am not against picking Naughton, if our recruiters happen to rate him as a better prospect than the other guys around picks 2/5. I just suspect that they don't.

 

[Timmytime]

The "have played league already" argument is kind of unfair for Vic kids isn't it? Don't they have to play TAC cup? Truth is we don't know who will be consistently good against bigger bodies, after all there is a big jump from WAFL/SANFL/VFL to the AFL. The pressure alone is much, much more intense. Also, we can't say anyone will be as good as a current AFL player at the moment, on both sides of the debate. It's all hypothetical at this stage. Comparisons are helpful to gage play styles but shouldn't be used as evidence in an argument like it's a sure thing, because no one is a sure thing.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

If Pearce, Logue, Cox and Naughton were somehow all in the same draft pool I would have Naughton top of the board.

Same

Reads the ball movement perfectly

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Naughton is 17/18 , hardly the age to play no I defender in the seniors. He was selected as the AA KD in the under 18,s though and now stands at 195 cm ,surely big enough to hold down a KD spot. Does his AA and what he achieved playing seniors count for anything or does form only apply to the mids who have only shown what they have in the 18,s . Naughton in his limited games at Peel showed a lot more ability than Pearce did in his time at Peel and Pearce is the great KD hope . Naughton is an AA, was under aged and has starred in his appearances at senior level against AFL trained opponents. Something that none of the other potential draftees have managed to do. Why he isnt listed amongst the top picks is hard to fathom.

He is listed highly just not top 5 which is understandable. I agree with your statement he has adapted to wafl league quicker than Pearce. Although Pearce was moved forward a fair bit in his first season which could be a reason.

I like how Naughton takes marks at its highest point. Hard to out mark him at his height

No need to sell his credentials to paro he's just salty for some reason. I can see him better than Hamling in a few seasons time and maybe as good as Pearce

 

[theGav56]

I can see him better than Hamling in a few seasons time and maybe as good as Pearce

The dilemma with selecting him at 5 is that he may be better than both of those players, but what we are really looking at is;

will the team be better of he replaces either if those two, OR if we add someone along the lines of Cerra or Fogarty while retaining those two.

That is, it is an opportunity cost. If Naughton (or Pearce) projects as a forward, different story.

 

[meima]

The dilemma with selecting him at 5 is that he may be better than both of those players, but what we are really looking at is;

will the team be better of he replaces either of those two, OR if we add someone along the lines of Cerra or Fogarty while retaining those two.

That is, it is an opportunity cost. If Naughton (or Pearce) projects as a forward, different story.

Sometime is very hard to know , who would thought Sicily and Burton playing in the backline help Hawthorn turn their season around . As much as the players versatility ,the coaches also need to try different set up to turn thing around .

 

[theGav56]

Sometime is very hard to know , who would thought Sicily and Burton playing in the backline help Hawthorn turn their season around . As much as the players versatility ,the coaches also need to try different set up to turn thing around .

Which young, best 22 players were Sicily and Burton replacing? It really isn't the same situation.

We have some specific weak areas, and for me the weakest of those are midfield and forward/KPF. This draft with picks 2 and 5 we have a great opportunity to address the midfield. If Naughton is seen as a likely fix for the KPF slot, I hope they pull the pin. Gutsy move.

 

[meima]

Which young, best 22 players were Sicily and Burton replacing? It really isn't the same situation.

We have some specific weak areas, and for me the weakest of those are midfield and forward/KPF. This draft with picks 2 and 5 we have a great opportunity to address the midfield. If Naughton is seen as a likely fix for the KPF slot, I hope they pull the pin. Gutsy move.

What if they see Logue as KPF ?
Freo need players versatility , name me quality Hawthorn mid that play against Freo this year apart from Tom Mitchell .

 

[theGav56]

What if they see Logue as KPF ?
Freo need players versatility , name me quality Hawthorn mid that play against Freo this year apart from Tom Mitchell .

If they see Logue as a KPF then Naughton is a fix for that position by freeing Logue up to play there. No problem with that at all. But I would still think the club has better value out of playing Cox in the backline to enable that to happen.

Personally that strategy is way more complex for me than it needs to be. 2-3 good KPDs is covered by Hamling, Pearce, Logue. Cox provides flexibility should anyone show potential as a swingman/KPF.

Why would I name you a quality Hawthorn mid?

 

[meima]

Why would I name you a quality Hawthorn mid?

If Freo can lost to Hawthorn who had only one quality inside mid in Tom Mitchell this year , I don't think getting one or two mid will solve the problem , is more of mid overall problem during match day .

 

[salim malik]

Do you have some kind of google alert for Naughton posts so you can come on and reply to them without reading them?

Bolded, in order:
- No. If we drafted Naughton we would then have two AA U18 centre half backs on our list. Neither of whom will be playing there.

- Who cares. Good form at seniors level as a junior can indicate a good player, but a champ? Here is the hypothetical WA SOO team from afl.com earlier this year. How many of these had even played a senior game before they were drafted? (and all of them could have):
View attachment 435071
Off the top of my head I know Franklin was 1. Cripps none. Fyfe none. Fyfe!
I can think of some pretty B grade players with outstanding 17 year old form; D Rich for one.

- Maybe it's because the listers have seen the other players actually play, rather than just Naughton.

For the record: I am not against picking Naughton, if our recruiters happen to rate him as a better prospect than the other guys around picks 2/5. I just suspect that they don't.

You're locked into mids that have good highlights packages. This mid obsession by all and sundry is why the Brownlow is a **cking joke.

PS if you dont care or rate a 17 year old AA KD dominating against bigger bodied senior players then its pointless taking any of your opinions seriously.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

You're locked into mids that have good highlights packages. This mid obsession by all and sundry is why the Brownlow is a **cking joke.

PS if you dont care or rate a 17 year old AA KD dominating against bigger bodied senior players then its pointless taking any of your opinions seriously.

X2

By the way Chris Pelchem has Naughton going at 6 to Collingwood. They probably need him more than Freo

 

[Paracleet]

You're locked into mids that have good highlights packages. This mid obsession by all and sundry is why the Brownlow is a **cking joke.

PS if you dont care or rate a 17 year old AA KD dominating against bigger bodied senior players then its pointless taking any of your opinions seriously.

Then stop replying to them.

 

[wayToGo_]

The Naughton straw man is becoming a bit tiresome... Has anyone on here not rated Naughton? Like anyone at all? Everyone here seems to think he is clearly a quality first round pick but are only questioning/debating whether he is the best prospect to select at pick #5.

It's one thing to say he's proven himself at WAFL League level but equating that to him becoming the next Rance as a certainty is no different to saying any of the top draft prospects will become the next Martin, Dangerfield, Fyfe etc. Even guaranteeing he is going to be better than Hamling is completely speculative. Hamling has an AFL premiership medal. He earned that by being the best KPD and one of the best players in his team throughout an AFL finals series. Is it possible one of our other KPDs or Naughton could eventually become better than him? Sure, but it's a far cry from producing some solid games at WAFL League. Collins dominated WAFL as a primary KPD and yet we delisted him because he wasn't good enough for AFL.

Just because people don't prefer him as our pick #5 does not mean we don't rate him. Just like those of us last year that didn't want to select English with #7, it did not mean we didn't rate him either (and he slid to pick #19). It's not like the draft experts that follow these guys around non-stop have rated Naughton in the top 5 prospects yet either. He's a quality prospect but he's not the only one available in this draft.

ftr the best prospects (from the AFL Academy) played a game against a VFL team back in April to see how they'd go at that level. It was against the Carlton team this year (Northern Blues). The standouts were Davies-Uniacke, LFogarty, Higgins, Rayner and Clark. Plenty of the prospects have also played seniors (and performed well) in their respective state leagues.

 

[hedgehog]

Hard to see how anyone could sit through the last two seasons and come to the conclusion that we need more key defenders. The biggest problem our backline faced wasn't a lack of quality personnel, it was the ball getting waltzed in, unpressured, time and time again.

The best way to improve our defence is to decrease the quality and quantity of opposition forward 50 entries, and the best way to do that is to improve our contested ball and pressure on the ball-carrier. If it wasn't evident on viewing, Lyon also mentioned this most weeks in his post match press conference.

A backline of Rance, Hurley & Talia would look second-rate defending against the quick, accurate, unpressured forward 50 entries that we gave up in the second part of the year.

Two high-quality, ball-winning midfielders will improve our backline more than another key defender will.

 

[Paracleet]

I feel intercept marking third tall keys are a bit overrated; Lever, Gov etc. (teams are more effective when that job is shared by most of the non lock down defenders imo). They are at their best when their team is on top, or at least have their midfield still pressuring the opposition kicks forward. They're not going to pull you back into the game like a genuine class midfielder or number 1 key forward or back could, who can win more than their share of even contests.

 

[meima]

Ok no more Naughton discussion , what about Brander and Sam Hayes or Jack Higgins .

 

[charlie34]

Anybody got some players in mind for our later picks?

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[jedi mind tricks]

Anybody got some players in mind for our later picks?

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Guelfi

 

[meima]

Anybody got some players in mind for our later picks?

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