Traded 2018 Live Trade: Carlton trade #4 (2019) to Adelaide for #19 (2018) and #9 (2019)

[Monkey King]

What misses?

He has nailed all his early picks.

You have no proof otherwise!

Proof of what? That Curnow has looked on another level to Milera to this point? Seriously?

I’ve stated clearly what I mean as a miss in this scenario. Griffin over Buddy was a miss and yet Griffin was a 250 game All Australian, BnF winner. You think your man is immune from such a miss and I’m just saying at this point, it doesn’t look like he is. At this stage, Milera over Curnow looks a lot like the type of thing I’m talking about.

 

[Monkey King]

Who are Carlton being linked to for next year?

I’ve heard an interstate player and a couple of Vic based players are being targeted at this point. Josh Kelly is probably the interstate one, but I’m sure half a dozen other clubs will be all over him too.

 

[Suma Magic]

Many academy or f/s players tipped to go top 10 next year?

 

[Mitchell54]

Many academy or f/s players tipped to go top 10 next year?

Josh Poulter has Liam Delahunty(GWS Academy) at Pick 7.
Other have him just outside the top 10. All depends on how they perform next year of course.

Probably the wrong thread for it so don’t form a discussion about potential draftees.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

I think he’s got an issue with GWS taking players with first round picks and sos taking them off their hands for second round picks.
Pickett pick 4 2014 and Marchbank pick 6 2014 pinched for exchange of picks
Kennedy pick 13 2015 pinched for pick 28 in 2017
Setterfield pick 5 2016 pinched for 2019 2nd round pick
Can’t wait to see him blow up when coniglio comes for free next year

Couldn't be more wrong.

I have given credit where it's due. On a number of occasions, I've congratulated Silvagni when I think he's deserved it, but by the same token, when he builds a list that wins two games, loses twenty and has a percentage of 59%, I think criticism of Silvagni, and Bolton for that matter- is very, very fair.

Marchbank and Pickett were picks that Silvagni butchered in the first place, I'm glad he took them off our hands.

Kennedy, I was disappointed about but he was on our fringes and I'll never begrudge a player the opportunity to set himself up for the future by taking a long term deal with the potential for more playing time.

Setterfield I was incredibly disappointed about. He was the second best prospect I've ever seen come through our club, after Kelly. But again, he gave his all at the Giants and well done to him for having the guts to back himself by going to a club that he has the potential to lead in the future. He is the potential difference maker for the Blues in my opinion, and Silvagni has done incredibly well to secure him

If the four you've mentioned lead Carlton to success then I'll be the first to laud the praise on Carlton and their list management for bringing them to the club. However, success means winning more than two games in a season.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

Proof of what? That Curnow has looked on another level to Milera to this point? Seriously?

He hasn't.

Curnow is edging it, but the difference is very narrow

 

[Monkey King]

He hasn't.

Mate, I can’t help it that you don’t watch football.

 

[btdg]

Couldn't be more wrong.

I have given credit where it's due. On a number of occasions, I've congratulated Silvagni when I think he's deserved it, but by the same token, when he builds a list that wins two games, loses twenty and has a percentage of 59%, I think criticism of Silvagni, and Bolton for that matter- is very, very fair.

Marchbank and Pickett were picks that Silvagni butchered in the first place, I'm glad he took them off our hands.

Kennedy, I was disappointed about but he was on our fringes and I'll never begrudge a player the opportunity to set himself up for the future by taking a long term deal with the potential for more playing time.

Setterfield I was incredibly disappointed about. He was the second best prospect I've ever seen come through our club, after Kelly. But again, he gave his all at the Giants and well done to him for having the guts to back himself by going to a club that he has the potential to lead in the future. He is the potential difference maker for the Blues in my opinion, and Silvagni has done incredibly well to secure him

If the four you've mentioned lead Carlton to success then I'll be the first to laud the praise on Carlton and their list management for bringing them to the club. However, success means winning more than two games in a season.

I honestly dont get your obsession with attacking carlton/silvsgni... You say credit where it is due - but then ignore what Silvagni has actually done in favour of endlessly citing '2 wins as some kind of trump card.

His job is list management. The list he inherited in 2015 featured the following players who are currently still in the AFL and their respective ages:

Marc Murphy (31)
Bryce Gibbs (29) - now Adelaide
Kade Simpson (33)
Dylan Buckley (24) - GWS rookie list
Matthew Kreuzer (29)
Patrick Cripps (23)
Liam Jones (27)
Sam Dochert (25)
Nick Holman (GC rookie list)
Ed Curnow (29)
Dale Thomas (30)
Levi Casboult (28)
Zac Touhy (29) - now at Geelong

That's it - a complete mess. 13 players still in the league. 8 are wee past their primes and 2 others were are rookie listed (and lucky to be there). The crisis Carlton were in wasn't that we sucked in 2015. It was that we sucked and that the worst was yet to come- we had an ageing group of overpaid and underperforming players and zero young talent, along with zero cap space. 2018 was always going to be horrendous - that's how bad our list management was

Silvagni's job was to address that utter wasteland of talent. And by and large it has succeeded. Bear in mind the 'default would have been 4x 1st round picks and 4x second since... (plus whatever else in free agency etc)

We now have:
- 10 players drafted in the first round of the draft since 2015;
- 4 players drafted in the first round of the 2014 draft who Silvagni targeted and added by trade
- 3x second rounders, and a standard assortment of 4-5 later picks who have shown 'something'
- some solid players aged 23-26 who can play a role (McGovern, Plowman, Fasolo, Phillips, Newman, Lang)

I don't know how well it'll pan out, but at the very least we now have a core group of 20-25 odd players aged 18-24 to build around. Some of those guys will fail. Some will get injured. But at an absolute minimum, you have to concede Silvagni has rebuilt the list to a point that it has potential.

That's not to say everything has been perfect. He's churned through cheap, mature aged players and not really found many who have filled a role well. He hasn't used the rookie list well at all. We have some glaring gaps - ruckman, running half back, small forward. But overall - it is mission accomplished. The coaching staff have a big core of young players to build, grow and develop.

From 2015-2018 It was never about 'leading Carlton to success'. It was about addressing the situation at hand. That needs to be judged on its merits, and job well done. The task of building success starts now - we will see how it pans out from here

 

[Alwaysacrow]

You’re just making a fool of yourself now,Milera and Charlie aren’t in the same universe

You're the one in the alternate universe as several neutral posters have pointed out.

 

[Drewie11]

Wow after 3 years we have a miss, by that standard SPS is a miss because Carlton could have gone for Witherden.

How stupid is that after 3 years!!!! About as stupid as my comment after 2 years....seriously

 

[Monkey King]

Wow after 3 years we have a miss, by that standard SPS is a miss because Carlton could have gone for Witherden.

How stupid is that after 3 years!!!! About as stupid as my comment after 2 years....seriously

Faux outrage noticeably absent when Weitering gets considered a bust by some Crows posters. Not a miss over Oliver, which would be a fair call at this point given the level Oliver has shown, but a total bust. You blokes have no scruples.

No one is considering Milera a bust, just that so far, Curnow has looked on another level. If Crows posters wanna disagree with that and claim neutral opinion sides with them, take it to the redo thread and see what response you get.

 

[gardiner stand]

In the 2017 GF I can’t believe I actually barracked for the Crows,mostly for Eddie and Jacobs, but gee the way you blokes carry on without the ability to even concede that Charlie Curnow is a better prospect than Milera I’m so happy Richmond gave you an absolute smacking because you all deserved it.

 

[Marcel Proust]

In the 2017 GF I can’t believe I actually barracked for the Crows,mostly for Eddie and Jacobs, but gee the way you blokes carry on without the ability to even concede that Charlie Curnow is a better prospect than Milera I’m so happy Richmond gave you an absolute smacking because you all deserved it.

Strong list though are the crows.

Wouldnt be a surprise if they rebounded this season to top4

 

[Drewie11]

In the 2017 GF I can’t believe I actually barracked for the Crows,mostly for Eddie and Jacobs, but gee the way you blokes carry on without the ability to even concede that Charlie Curnow is a better prospect than Milera I’m so happy Richmond gave you an absolute smacking because you all deserved it.

It felt like there was a curse on us grand final day and now I see where it is from

Take your blinkers off, nobody is suggesting Milera is better than Curnow. Curnow is in front at the moment but to suggest in anyway that he cannot be better than a Curnow and is a “miss” is just pure stupidity

 

[Crow till I die]

Proof of what? That Curnow has looked on another level to Milera to this point? Seriously?

I’ve stated clearly what I mean as a miss in this scenario. Griffin over Buddy was a miss and yet Griffin was a 250 game All Australian, BnF winner. You think your man is immune from such a miss and I’m just saying at this point, it doesn’t look like he is. At this stage, Milera over Curnow looks a lot like the type of thing I’m talking about.

But griffin was not a miss either..he was a super player. I tell you in the second half of the season just gone there were plenty of club supporters looking at milera and how well he was playing

 

[Crow till I die]

Faux outrage noticeably absent when Weitering gets considered a bust by some Crows posters. Not a miss over Oliver, which would be a fair call at this point given the level Oliver has shown, but a total bust. You blokes have no scruples.

No one is considering Milera a bust, just that so far, Curnow has looked on another level. If Crows posters wanna disagree with that and claim neutral opinion sides with them, take it to the redo thread and see what response you get.

Weitering in abetter development system could be the best defender in the comp..he has all the attributes just not the support in his development both off field and on it

 

[Monkey King]

But griffin was not a miss either..he was a super player. I tell you in the second half of the season just gone there were plenty of club supporters looking at milera and how well he was playing

The kind of miss I’m talking about is Griffin. Great player yes. In Buddy’s league, not even close. Now I’m not comparing Milera to Griffin, or Curnow to Buddy, just pointing out these are the type of miss picks that can happen with high picks and your recruiter has not shown he’s immune.

And for any Crows posters whose feathers are ruffled by the example, stiff. There have been a number of posts in threads about this trade that have called out Carlton’s draft history and yet Milera’s draft was also SOS’s first draft. Seems like a one way problem for you blokes.

EDIT: above another example. Give Milera time is the call, but Weitering is talked about like a coulda been.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

You are a perfect example of this.

The difference is I'm not the only one who shares my opinion... from those who actually have watched Milera closely.

Confident Milera will be a gun from his draft year like Curnow, Mills & Oliver.

Get back to me in a year as confident you will also be proved wrong!

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

The kind of miss I’m talking about is Griffin. Great player yes. In Buddy’s league, not even close. Now I’m not comparing Milera to Griffin, or Curnow to Buddy, just pointing out these are the type of miss picks that can happen with high picks and your recruiter has not shown he’s immune.

And for any Crows posters whose feathers are ruffled by the example, stiff. There have been a number of posts in threads about this trade that have called out Carlton’s draft history and yet Milera’s draft was also SOS’s first draft. Seems like a one way problem for you blokes.

EDIT: above another example. Give Milera time is the call, but Weitering is talked about like a coulda been.

Griffin wasn't a miss as a gun player.

Milera won't be a miss either. Confident he will be easily in the top 10 of his draft year.

Hamish has not missed with any of his top draft picks over the last decade. Carlton would not be in their current predicament if they had Hamish drafting for them the last decade.

 

[Monkey King]

Griffin wasn't a miss as a gun player.

Milera won't be a miss either. Confident he will be easily in the top 10 of his draft year.

Hamish has not missed with any of his top draft picks over the last decade. Carlton would not be in their current predicament if they had Hamish drafting for them the last decade.

Carlton haven’t even had their current recruiting team in place for 3 years. It’s just a lack of scruples that has posters unfazed by such judgement on one hand and then calling for patience on the other.

Any club with the chance that missed on Buddy that year, missed with their pick. Insert whatever word you find most palpable, but Buddy is a generational player and in a rare class; when those blokes show up on the radar, passing over them is not “nailing” your pick.

 

[Shaz2012]

Carlton took McKay at 10. They “missed” Curnow as well. Otherwise, if they claim inside info that we weren’t taking him then they missed Milera. We have a no dickhead policy that is pretty firm so nobody from inside the crows is calling Curnow a miss.

Carlton taking McKay over Milera however could be one that stings.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Carlton haven’t even had their current recruiting team in place for 3 years. It’s just a lack of scruples that has posters unfazed by such judgement on one hand and then calling for patience on the other.

Any club with the chance that missed on Buddy that year, missed with their pick. Insert whatever word you find most palpable, but Buddy is a generational player and in a rare class; when those blokes show up on the radar, passing over them is not “nailing” your pick.

It's easy to pick the best players in retrospect... but what was being discussed is drafting a gun with the a 1st round pick... rather than a dud.

Griffin was a gun player.

Milera will be a gun player like all of Hamish's picks. Name me a club recruiter who has a better record...

 

[gardiner stand]

Strong list though are the crows.

Wouldnt be a surprise if they rebounded this season to top4

We shall see

 

[Marcel Proust]

We shall see

They still have the bulk of their grand final side, outside of Charlie Cameron & Jake Lever.

Optimistic of Carlton to predict their demise.

 

[PrinceCharles]

Couldn't be more wrong.

I have given credit where it's due. On a number of occasions, I've congratulated Silvagni when I think he's deserved it, but by the same token, when he builds a list that wins two games, loses twenty and has a percentage of 59%, I think criticism of Silvagni, and Bolton for that matter- is very, very fair.

Marchbank and Pickett were picks that Silvagni butchered in the first place, I'm glad he took them off our hands.

Kennedy, I was disappointed about but he was on our fringes and I'll never begrudge a player the opportunity to set himself up for the future by taking a long term deal with the potential for more playing time.

Setterfield I was incredibly disappointed about. He was the second best prospect I've ever seen come through our club, after Kelly. But again, he gave his all at the Giants and well done to him for having the guts to back himself by going to a club that he has the potential to lead in the future. He is the potential difference maker for the Blues in my opinion, and Silvagni has done incredibly well to secure him

If the four you've mentioned lead Carlton to success then I'll be the first to laud the praise on Carlton and their list management for bringing them to the club. However, success means winning more than two games in a season.

lol

He hasn't.

Curnow is edging it, but the difference is very narrow

lol

Carlton took McKay at 10. They “missed” Curnow as well. Otherwise, if they claim inside info that we weren’t taking him then they missed Milera. We have a no dickhead policy that is pretty firm so nobody from inside the crows is calling Curnow a miss.

Carlton taking McKay over Milera however could be one that stings.

lol