Analysis 2020 List, Game Plan and Best 22?

[Grand Uncle Horace]

It most definitely is across the whole of the 18 teams!
People back then were saying that compared to the 90's & early 2000's, the 70's & 80's were more entertaining.

What a miserable era we are in......................what a miserable club we follow.

Yep. I do not know about the nostalgia goggles. There have been champions (no not you Bedford) and wonderful games most weeks in every decade I have watched the game.

I am so biased, at times I struggle to enjoy our games and even after a good win, I rarely consider it champagne footy. Win, lose or draw I am usually reduced to a puddle of nervous exhaustion.

I really hope Horse completes the transition from flooding to a more balanced game plan. Maybe it was Horse being stubborn but we hung on to the throwing players in to the D50 for far too long.

I reckon I am better judging standards when I go to or watch a game where I am more or less neutral. Obviously nowadays many players tend to be more natural athletes than natural footballers. There are still great examples of footy skill and acumen in every game, just as there has always been.

By the way Tedeski - I am delighted to see you're still at Sunnybrook Farm.

 

[Tedeski]

I am delighted to see you're still at Sunnybrook Farm.

A bit of light hearted fun B52.

 

[The King!]

Can we find 22 fit and capable for round 1?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Can we find 22 fit and capable for round 1?

Fit yes, capable...debatable

 

[Olian]

Can we find 22 fit and capable for round 1?

Yes we’ll be fine. Whether we can win who knows!

 

[Punts]

List is still in all sorts of trouble with talent , depth and still heavily reliant on a few , like it has been the last few!

bottom 4 list looking generous

 

[The King!]

List is still in all sorts of trouble with talent , depth and still heavily reliant on a few , like it has been the last few!

bottom 4 list looking generous

That’s fine if it’s heading in the right direction though

 

[Punts]

That’s fine if it’s heading in the right direction though

Is it when recruiting, Clarke, thurlow , knoll , Taylor , brand etc etc and keeping blokes that are local talent

 

[caesar88]

Is it when recruiting, Clarke, thurlow , knoll , Taylor , brand etc etc and keeping blokes that are local talent

Our trading has been shithouse in recent years let's be honest, trade ban or not. Hoping the three this year will reverse that but one of them turns up on day one of pre-season out of shape is a shocking start for him.

 

[SGBeach]

Our trading has been shithouse in recent years let's be honest, trade ban or not. Hoping the three this year will reverse that but one of them turns up on day one of pre-season out of shape is a shocking start for him.

Agree, but.....
Our hands are tied more than most when it comes to trading. Last trade period I posted 'lets get Cutler', 'lets get that big bodied mid x 3' etc,, and every time there was a quick response, 'nup, they want to go to a melbourne club'..
Thurlow was our third choice at half back. We tried to get Darcy Moore, then T Langdon but both chose to stay for less money in Melbourne. Luckily we've found Dawson,, and Mills is set for the half back role.
Clarke was worth a gamble. We needed inside mids, he played 20 odd games in his first two years, has a massive tank but questionable skills. He could play the role of a tagger, which would release Hewett. Clarke is likely to be carrying a slight injury otherwise would've played yesterday. Jury is still out, but not looking good.
Knoll is fine as a cheap back up ruckman
Taylor is probably also cheap.. he's got a lot to prove this year!
Brand and Grey as delisted free agents would also be cheap.

It is clear we have to pay overs to trade in players. The AFL recognised this and gave us COLA as proof. They took COLA away but now have a Future Footy program which involves 5 or so GWS players. Theres no way that GWS can keep Coniglio, Green, Whitfield, Cameron, Kelly etc that should be on $900k + and keep the next 10 best that should be on $500k + without assistance. The Swans get nothing from the AFL.

So money is a massive factor. Im sure the Swans have room in their cap. Im sure some is being reserved for the renewing of contracts of some younger guys. Kennedy is out of contract at the end of this year, and Buddys contract drops (from what I've read) by $500-600k. Theres over $1m of extra cap from those two.

Im reading this from the outside so may well be completely wrong.. We havnt traded in a big name over the past few seasons because we're rebuilding via the draft. We've been wanting to see what we can get from the draft and when we start to contend again (2021 hopefully) and our young players have 50+ games to their name, then we will target certain players/positions.

I can envisage another large list turn over this year as we delist rookies and draftees (and failed trades) from the last few years that won't make it. We may try to trade in that undervalued 21-22yo player, and may try to trade that 23-24yo player with 100games experience. Im thinking that we won't target that expensive free agent mid fielder for a couple of years until we are well n truly contenders again (and they suit our age profile better). In saying this, we may jump on any opportunity we can as they don't come around too often.

The Swans do have excellent recruiters, coaches and management. But it takes longer than 2-3 years to rebuild a serious footy team

 

[The King!]

Not sure buddys contract decreases until it’s done, happy to be corrected

I think the loss of cola is a nice excuse the club like to put out there, we have put in place a lot of odd long contracts in the last few years, our salary cap management has been odd and forced a lot of salary to be locked up imo

In terms of good management a lot of those management types have gone like colless and Ireland and asst coaches have changed as well, a lot of the current off field team haven’t proven much at all imo


We have one of the highest footy department spends in the comp, they have more resources than most

 

[SGBeach]

Not sure buddys contract decreases until it’s done, happy to be corrected

I think the loss of cola is a nice excuse the club like to put out there, we have put in place a lot of odd long contracts in the last few years, our salary cap management has been odd and forced a lot of salary to be locked up imo

In terms of good management a lot of those management types have gone like colless and Ireland and asst coaches have changed as well, a lot of the current off field team haven’t proven much at all imo


We have one of the highest footy department spends in the comp, they have more resources than most

For a contract thats so public, cant work out why there are so many variables? I was under the impression that it dropped from approx $1.5m this year to under $1m next year. like you, happy to be corrected (but please, not by someone that doesn't know)

The long contracts may be a sign of the future, or may be a phase the AFL is going through.. a lot of clubs are doing them. We were the first with Buddy, and Im sure others on our list have longer than 'normal' contracts. This may be in response to the Swans struggling to keep players from going home to bigger money.
During last years trade period, Horse mentioned 'how fluid' the salary cap is. Very hard to know how much space there is and when theres space.
I think COLA still impacts us. Buddys and Kennedys (maybe Reids?) contracts were signed when we thought we had and extra 10% in our cap,, and other contracts have probably been back ended or manipulated in ways to respond to the loss. Hopefully the impact is reducing each year and we're not far away from being free altogether.

Cant comment on Colless, but Ireland was fantastic! I reckon Harley is a damm good operator aswell. I reckon he showed a lot through the Daniher trade.

Dew and Shaw could make very good senior coaches, they were great assistants that we lost. Im sure they simply took a better opportunity than we could offer. Interested to see how the current crop of assistants go - Kirk, Blakey, Cox, Macca, Johnston, Kinnelly. Hard to judge them really.

 

[The King!]

For a contract thats so public, cant work out why there are so many variables? I was under the impression that it dropped from approx $1.5m this year to under $1m next year. like you, happy to be corrected (but please, not by someone that doesn't know)

The long contracts may be a sign of the future, or may be a phase the AFL is going through.. a lot of clubs are doing them. We were the first with Buddy, and Im sure others on our list have longer than 'normal' contracts. This may be in response to the Swans struggling to keep players from going home to bigger money.
During last years trade period, Horse mentioned 'how fluid' the salary cap is. Very hard to know how much space there is and when theres space.
I think COLA still impacts us. Buddys and Kennedys (maybe Reids?) contracts were signed when we thought we had and extra 10% in our cap,, and other contracts have probably been back ended or manipulated in ways to respond to the loss. Hopefully the impact is reducing each year and we're not far away from being free altogether.

Cant comment on Colless, but Ireland was fantastic! I reckon Harley is a damm good operator aswell. I reckon he showed a lot through the Daniher trade.

Dew and Shaw could make very good senior coaches, they were great assistants that we lost. Im sure they simply took a better opportunity than we could offer. Interested to see how the current crop of assistants go - Kirk, Blakey, Cox, Macca, Johnston, Kinnelly. Hard to judge them really.

There’s a lot we don’t know as fans we can agree on that

And the swans especially (not saying it’s wrong) keep a lot in house

 

[SGBeach]

There’s a lot we don’t know as fans we can agree on that

And the swans especially (not saying it’s wrong) keep a lot in house

Yep..
and I for one have full faith in how the club is run from top to bottom. Im confident that theres a much greater number of very good decisions made than mistakes.. Thats not me being an over optimistic / one eyed fan, its more me being simply realistic.

 

[The King!]

Yep..
and I for one have full faith in how the club is run from top to bottom. Im confident that theres a much greater number of very good decisions made than mistakes.. Thats not me being an over optimistic / one eyed fan, its more me being simply realistic.

Mate that’s more than reasonable and I see where you are coming from

I have concerns I have had for a few years

Time will tell

 

[Punts]

Harley

 

[SGBeach]

Harley

Whats wrong with Harley?

 

[Punts]

Rampe will age quick with the amount of pressure on him this year with macca , Smith and Grundy fully gone.

with the amount of ball that will be going in there I can see some gas kits blowing

 

[Punts]

Whats wrong with Harley?

I’m just not sure we are in the best hands but that’s totally my opinion and time will tell

 

[SGBeach]

Rampe will age quick with the amount of pressure on him this year with macca , Smith and Grundy fully gone.

with the amount of ball that will be going in there I can see some gas kits blowing

Smith and Grundy were fully gone last year. Macca played 10 games and was there for his leadership, which hopefully he can still provide,, only now from off the field. I reckon Rampe will have more support this year than last with.. COR, Mills, Allir, Dawson likely improving with age and experience,, and maybe/hopefully Brand, melican or Maibaum can step up into a KPD (a big maybe!). Theres likely to be one or two new young faces down back too,, - Maibaum, Ling, Gould.. Rampe will thrive on leading those kids, its just the type of person/player he is.
but,, it is likely that a lot of ball will be going in there, and theres no denying his age. hopefully Rampe can produce another 2-3 great seasons

I’m just not sure we are in the best hands but that’s totally my opinion and time will tell

Hard gig to be the CEO of a business that has a revenue of over $50m.. especially one which is so public. Hes young and very new to the job, and from what Ive seen, hes handled himself very well. Its way to early to write him off, but you're correct, time will tell.

 

[TheMase]

Whats wrong with Harley?

Looking for scapegoats!

(Jk Punts)

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

I think this year’s Dawson will be more valuable as a player than last year’s Macca. Mills is I think we’ll equipped for the pointing role.

 

[caesar88]

Agree, but.....
Our hands are tied more than most when it comes to trading. Last trade period I posted 'lets get Cutler', 'lets get that big bodied mid x 3' etc,, and every time there was a quick response, 'nup, they want to go to a melbourne club'..
Thurlow was our third choice at half back. We tried to get Darcy Moore, then T Langdon but both chose to stay for less money in Melbourne. Luckily we've found Dawson,, and Mills is set for the half back role.
Clarke was worth a gamble. We needed inside mids, he played 20 odd games in his first two years, has a massive tank but questionable skills. He could play the role of a tagger, which would release Hewett. Clarke is likely to be carrying a slight injury otherwise would've played yesterday. Jury is still out, but not looking good.
Knoll is fine as a cheap back up ruckman
Taylor is probably also cheap.. he's got a lot to prove this year!
Brand and Grey as delisted free agents would also be cheap.

It is clear we have to pay overs to trade in players. The AFL recognised this and gave us COLA as proof. They took COLA away but now have a Future Footy program which involves 5 or so GWS players. Theres no way that GWS can keep Coniglio, Green, Whitfield, Cameron, Kelly etc that should be on $900k + and keep the next 10 best that should be on $500k + without assistance. The Swans get nothing from the AFL.

So money is a massive factor. Im sure the Swans have room in their cap. Im sure some is being reserved for the renewing of contracts of some younger guys. Kennedy is out of contract at the end of this year, and Buddys contract drops (from what I've read) by $500-600k. Theres over $1m of extra cap from those two.

Im reading this from the outside so may well be completely wrong.. We havnt traded in a big name over the past few seasons because we're rebuilding via the draft. We've been wanting to see what we can get from the draft and when we start to contend again (2021 hopefully) and our young players have 50+ games to their name, then we will target certain players/positions.

I can envisage another large list turn over this year as we delist rookies and draftees (and failed trades) from the last few years that won't make it. We may try to trade in that undervalued 21-22yo player, and may try to trade that 23-24yo player with 100games experience. Im thinking that we won't target that expensive free agent mid fielder for a couple of years until we are well n truly contenders again (and they suit our age profile better). In saying this, we may jump on any opportunity we can as they don't come around too often.

The Swans do have excellent recruiters, coaches and management. But it takes longer than 2-3 years to rebuild a serious footy team

It doesn't even have to be a big-name player though. I'm well aware that usually star recruitments like Buddy etc only come around probably once every 5-10 years for a club. But it's the less-known, less-risky recruits where we have done poorly, especially considering we were quite literally the best in the competition in that regard. Think Ted Richards, Rhyce Shaw, Marty Mattner, Shane Mumford, Josh Kennedy, Ben McGlynn, Darren Jolly etc etc... taking discards from other clubs and turning them into gems, making the other teams look silly.

Now we are the ones feeling silly when we have discards on our list whose performances basically justify them being discarded. It's our talent assessment that I think is off the radar at the moment. Take Clarke for example. Beatson said they were keen on him in his draft year of 2015, then kept a close eye on him while he was at North for a few years, then pounced when he became a trade option. That is plenty of opportunities for those involved to see that this guy has no discernible skills to be a good footballer - kicking technique is poor, handballing technique is putrid, with no composure or awareness to match. And yet we were still keen. Was our recruiting team watching a different player? Same could be said for a few others as well.

 

[Punts]

It doesn't even have to be a big-name player though. I'm well aware that usually star recruitments like Buddy etc only come around probably once every 5-10 years for a club. But it's the less-known, less-risky recruits where we have done poorly, especially considering we were quite literally the best in the competition in that regard. Think Ted Richards, Rhyce Shaw, Marty Mattner, Shane Mumford, Josh Kennedy, Ben McGlynn, Darren Jolly etc etc... taking discards from other clubs and turning them into gems, making the other teams look silly.

Now we are the ones feeling silly when we have discards on our list whose performances basically justify them being discarded. It's our talent assessment that I think is off the radar at the moment. Take Clarke for example. Beatson said they were keen on him in his draft year of 2015, then kept a close eye on him while he was at North for a few years, then pounced when he became a trade option. That is plenty of opportunities for those involved to see that this guy has no discernible skills to be a good footballer - kicking technique is poor, handballing technique is putrid, with no composure or awareness to match. And yet we were still keen. Was our recruiting team watching a different player? Same could be said for a few others as well.

paul Roos had a lot to do with all them recruits, haven’t done it since

 

[caesar88]

paul Roos had a lot to do with all them recruits, haven’t done it since

That's true. You think Horse needs to get involved more, or he already is and that's the problem?