Discussion 2021 General AFL Discussion

[gringo2011]

I am not advocating for the removal of all laws, so what is the purpose of this post. You have already stated you will not read the paper, yet you make a case against it. You do not know what you are talking about unfortunately. I tried to help you with that but you declined. Lets move on.

Did you download it or buy the hard copy?

 

[Mowman]

But I like pissing.

Not so much when you got cold hands

 

[StCicatriz]

sounds like WCE are not in the clear just yet. that could be a massive story brewing.

 

[gringo2011]

Not so much when you got cold hands

It's about the only thing that I excel in.

 

[George]

Well you're being very condescending mate and until we hear from Jones we're all guessing as to his motivations.

I'm not sure why you're so upset about how people are talking about him TBH, it seems like a pretty dumb move for most but no-one is being over the top in attacking him.

I personally wouldn't consider someone posting a link to a $75 book a 'legitimate discussion' particularly if they're not backing it up with any substance from the book.

I think people are confused as to what you are actuality debating or suggesting that Jones might be basing his decision on.

Not sure if suggesting people are regressive and immature is helping your case much either… that is just a veiled personal slight and off topic.

Sorry if you feel the way, that is not my intention. I am trying to discuss the topic objectively.

I am not upset, I am having a discussion. If anyone is partaking in emotional rhetoric it's you and the others who have decided to personally attack another person for doing something they don't believe in.

When I said legitimate discussion it was in reference to Liam Jones' decision to walk away from his profession. My comments regarding the study conducted by scientists at the National Research Council was in response to comments made surrounding human behaviour, something unrelated to Liam Jones' decision specifically. This is a credible source backed by more than 50 years of research. I understand you want me to back it up with quotations or examples from the paper but I have given a brief overview of what the paper is about and also included the synposis from the paper's website. You did say you will not bother to entertain it, so I would hope you could understand my lack of desire to continue to labour the point - especially with someone that has admitted they do not want to listen.

People should not be confused as to my stance on Liam Jones' situation given I have explained it many times over the course of this conversation. I have said many times it most likely is not a decision based merely on the basis of taking or not taking a vaccine but more to do with other factors that many regular people have genuine concerns about. I have also made those points really clear in previous posts. If you don't feel like going back and reading them then unfortunately I don't feel like repeating myself again. I hope you can appreciate that.

My comments regarding regressive rhetoric and behaviours are not personal attacks. It has nothing to do with them as a person but moreso where they are directing the conversation. Some of the language used is not helpful, surely you can understand that calling someone names is not an acceptable way of dealing with situations.

I also never said people were immature. I had belief that people were mature enough to have a genuine conversation on the topic at hand. If others find the need to resort to name calling to make their point I am not sure that shows the maturity required to debate sensibly. Immature and not mature enough I feel are two different things.

 

[George]

Did you download it or buy the hard copy?

Downloaded it

 

[kernelT]

This is the footy forum yeah?

 

[George]

This is the footy forum yeah?

Is Liam Jones retiring a football related topic?

 

[kernelT]

Is Liam Jones retiring a football related topic?

Yes.

Is the human response to cyclones related to Liam Jones retiring? Not really.

 

[kernelT]

Suddenly all comments about players need to be helpful and furthering humanity.

Is there a political science or world governance forum available for that?

 

[George]

Yes.

Is the human response to cyclones related to Liam Jones retiring? Not really.

I'd say that no it definitely isn't. But I thought we had already established what the purpose of that post was, and I have made it very clear to you specifically that it wasn't about Liam Jones decision but in response to two comments made to me regarding something different. We can all get a bit off topic sometimes, but I don't understand how that is all you took from 5 hours of discussion with the subject being Liam Jones' decision to retire.

 

[George]

Suddenly all comments about players need to be helpful and furthering humanity.

Is there a political science or world governance forum available for that?

Nobody has ever said all comments about players need to be helpful or furthering humanity. It is unusual that this is all you are taking from a discussing that totalled several pages.

 

[kernelT]

Nobody has ever said all comments about players need to be helpful or furthering humanity. It is unusual that this is all you are taking from a discussing that totalled several pages.

I’ve been pretty clear on the topic, I think Liam’s reasons for abstaining are probably in line with most of the other nuffies I’ve read online... one or more of misinformation, selfishness, conspiracy, not wanting to be told what to do.

I think that is unfortunate for him and his family but I’m not planning to burn his house down.

Why do you think he’s retired?

 

[Dard Ball Get]

I’ve been pretty clear on the topic, I think Liam’s reasons for abstaining are probably in line with most of the other nuffies I’ve read online... one or more of misinformation, selfishness, conspiracy, not wanting to be told what to do.

I think that is unfortunate for him and his family but I’m not planning to burn his house down.

Why do you think he’s retired?

Sounds like assumption and guesswork to me.
I reckon he’s made enough from his Shiba Inu investment so even a Visy ambassadorship can’t tempt him to stay.

 

[CursingFijian]

Don't let this get out of hand

Starts as fun ends in tears

We're all here for the tears Mowey.

 

[George]

I’ve been pretty clear on the topic, I think Liam’s reasons for abstaining are probably in line with most of the other nuffies I’ve read online... one or more of misinformation, selfishness, conspiracy, not wanting to be told what to do.

I think that is unfortunate for him and his family but I’m not planning to burn his house down.

Why do you think he’s retired?

You complain about veiled personal and condescending comments but then label people that don't hold the same view as you "nuffies". This is the kind of regressive rhetoric I was talking about in my earlier post. In my opinion, calling people names to make your point only weakens it.

I've explained why I think he's retired, but I do not believe it is as simple as a decision to get or not get vaccinated and I think there are bigger societal issues that Liam is taking into consideration. If this is true of Liam, he would be just one of a large percentage of people that think similarly. I'm not saying you believe this but if there's a belief that everyone who has had the vaccine is in support of it and subsequent legislation surrounding it then I would say those people are sadly mistaken. It is no conspiracy to believe that people have taken the vaccine just to be able to save themselves from being fired or to have the ability to live a life similar to the one they lived prior to 2020. There is no doubt that ordinary people begrudgingly have taken the vaccine.

I get the impression from some of the comments here that people are of the belief the only reason Liam retired is because he doesn't want to have the vaccine. I would agree that there are people out there that that is the only reason they are not getting vaccinated, however I would argue the percentage of those people in society is less than 5%. When you ask yourself what the genuine concerns for not getting a vaccine would be, the only things you can probably come up with is underlying health conditions or fear of needles. I struggle to accept that people really believe this is why Liam does not want it. I believe there are bigger factors at play.

One thing is for sure, he definitely has more courage and conviction than most others. Myself included. Everyone has a line that they will not cross regardless of circumstance or situation and for me losing my job was something I could not give up so I begrudgingly went and got vaccinated. I'm not unique in those actions though, there's 25 million people in this country and I could guarantee there's many, many others in the same boat. But some people are more steadfast than others and the line for them doesn't budge. Liam decided that that kind of money and lifestyle was something that wouldn't sway him. I think he needs to be commended for that, because I'm confident there are a lot of other footballers who caved when they were presented with the consequences for their actions. That does take courage, whether you like it or not.

 

[CursingFijian]

100% double jab in record time

 

[Geary Is GOAT]

Ouch!!!!

Ive heard if people unfortunately passing away from an infection from the picc line.

He sounds a long way back from even running let alone full contact training

I think it was a GWS player last year who needed one and wrote about how it burns as it's being pushed up your arm and into your shoulder to your heart.

* everything about that.

On Pixel 5 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[kernelT]

You complain about veiled personal and condescending comments but then label people that don't hold the same view as you "nuffies". This is the kind of regressive rhetoric I was talking about in my earlier post. In my opinion, calling people names to make your point only weakens it.

I've explained why I think he's retired, but I do not believe it is as simple as a decision to get or not get vaccinated and I think there are bigger societal issues that Liam is taking into consideration. If this is true of Liam, he would be just one of a large percentage of people that think similarly. I'm not saying you believe this but if there's a belief that everyone who has had the vaccine is in support of it and subsequent legislation surrounding it then I would say those people are sadly mistaken. It is no conspiracy to believe that people have taken the vaccine just to be able to save themselves from being fired or to have the ability to live a life similar to the one they lived prior to 2020. There is no doubt that ordinary people begrudgingly have taken the vaccine.

I get the impression from some of the comments here that people are of the belief the only reason Liam retired is because he doesn't want to have the vaccine. I would agree that there are people out there that that is the only reason they are not getting vaccinated, however I would argue the percentage of those people in society is less than 5%. When you ask yourself what the genuine concerns for not getting a vaccine would be, the only things you can probably come up with is underlying health conditions or fear of needles. I struggle to accept that people really believe this is why Liam does not want it. I believe there are bigger factors at play.

One thing is for sure, he definitely has more courage and conviction than most others. Myself included. Everyone has a line that they will not cross regardless of circumstance or situation and for me losing my job was something I could not give up so I begrudgingly went and got vaccinated. I'm not unique in those actions though, there's 25 million people in this country and I could guarantee there's many, many others in the same boat. But some people are more steadfast than others and the line for them doesn't budge. Liam decided that that kind of money and lifestyle was something that wouldn't sway him. I think he needs to be commended for that, because I'm confident there are a lot of other footballers who caved when they were presented with the consequences for their actions. That does take courage, whether you like it or not.

And this is exactly why we have these mandates... and road rules... and loads of rules in a functioning society.
No jab, no play... it’s been around for ages, I wouldn’t call it courageous if a parent refuses to send their child to school because they know better than science.
Liam could be completely down the rabbit hole of bill gates / 5G for all I know, not sure if that constitutes courage.

 

[joop]

Imagine spending nearly your whole life taking advice from medical professionals for your career only to then go against medical professionals who made a vaccine that HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of people worldwide have safely taken to forfeit a lot of money and your career.
I’m sure he ‘dID hIS OwN rESeArCh’.

 

[George]

And this is exactly why we have these mandates... and road rules... and loads of rules in a functioning society.
No jab, no play... it’s been around for ages, I wouldn’t call it courageous if a parent refuses to send their child to school because they know better than science.
Liam could be completely down the rabbit hole of bill gates / 5G for all I know, not sure if that constitutes courage.

The point is that you don't know and yet you personally attack him anyway. This is not helpful in my opinion.

I would also suggest your view of how many people in society are 5G/Bill Gates conspiracy theorists is overblown. By the end of this I would say 95% of people would have had two jabs. That doesn't mean that some of the 95% don't get drawn in by conspiracy theories, but if you are that far down the rabbit hole you probably won't get one jab let alone two to begin with. That doesn't leave many to fall into the boat you describe. On the law of averages I'd say it's most likely that he is part of a large portion of society that are against things far more important than a decision to jab or not to jab.

 

[George]

Imagine spending nearly your whole life taking advice from medical professionals for your career only to then go against medical professionals who made a vaccine that HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of people worldwide have safely taken to forfeit a lot of money and your career.
I’m sure he ‘dID hIS OwN rESeArCh’.

Why do you think it's only about a vaccine? It's illogical to believe that.

 

[joop]

Why do you think it's only about a vaccine? It's illogical to believe that.

How is it illogical?

 

[George]

How is it illogical?

Do you honestly believe people don't want to get the vaccine because of just the vaccine alone? You have less than 5% of the population who could be in that boat.

 

[joop]

Do you honestly believe people don't want to get the vaccine because of just the vaccine alone? You have less than 5% of the population who could be in that boat.

Where did you get the 5% number?