Event 2021 Trevor Barker Award - McKenzie, Steele & Sinclair steal the show

[gringo2011]

I reckon Membrey is owed an apology by some on here. I posted a few weeks back he'd be top 5 in our B&F.

I know his slow decision making when up the ground can be infuriating but the guy tries his guts out every week and he's lost his role as the focal point with King and Marshall playing forward.

You only need to listen to Ratts talk to know he's one of his favourites. Calls for him to be dropped by some posters during the year was never going to happen. I think the B&F result proves that

Why does he need an apology, I still think he's better near goal. We can still disagree with the coaches on his best use. He sucked last year and was pretty ordinary early this year.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Yeah, I've been suggesting that all year, our strength is our even list and our weakness is our even list. We aren't far off the Dogs and Dees except for the top end talent. Melbourne and WBD both have about 5 players who are elite or close to elite we have 1. King looks close to exploding but then the Dogs have their own potentially elite KPF.

Yeah agreed. I can't see us ever getting to the Dogs level of top end talent, but theirs is pretty incredible. With Darcy to come and Ugle-Hagan waiting in the wings, they have so many bases covered. Naughton, JUH and Darcy seems like almost the perfect KPF trio, albeit very unproven. Weightman looks like he'll be an elite small forward. Then obviously the midfield bats ridiculously deep. Hunter as their seventh best in there and he's a very good footballer who plays consistently well + stands up in big games. Dale and Daniel both AA half backs.

I can't see us ever getting near that level of top end talent, but we do have a few who can take steps forward. It seems at least that the club is on the same page and recognises where it is at. I guess the good thing is that with the age profile of the list, we should be at the worst a mid table team for the next five or so years. Should have five years of peak Steele and hopefully King is elite next year. 2024-25 probably shapes as our best chance of contending, if it does ever happen with this list - which remains a massive unknown obviously. King, Clark and Marshall all at 80-110 games by the start of 2024. That should be the list getting to its peak and there aren't many players from the current team who will be gone. Ryder obviously but that's a lot of stability for a team to have over several years.

Be interesting to see who the new head of development ends up being. Big responsibility for whoever it is.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Only the most nuffy observers ever doubted DMac.
Stevie Wonder could see he plays with 100% heart, ready to die for the shield.
Meanwhile some would rather see the smooth, spaghetti armed Billings gliding on the wing.
Really separated the football connoisseurs from the casual observers.

Why not both? ( gif)

 

[Diehard Saint]

They’re going to name it after him next year. If this place sponsors him next year I’ll pay for it myself.

No, please.
BF Sponsorship is instant career suicide for a player.
Leave DMac alone.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Why not both? ( gif)

Because it’s time for Hill to take the training wheels back off and hit the wing!

 

[malevu]

A voting system that goes beyond 3-2-1 is generally regarded as a fairer system. The downside is it can reward those that play the most games. A look at our top 10 in the count reflects those that played the most games for us this season. There's no way Hill would've finished as high with a 3-2-1 system.

 

[kosifantutti]

A voting system that goes beyond 3-2-1 is generally regarded as a fairer system. The downside is it can reward those that play the most games. A look at our top 10 in the count reflects those that played the most games for us this season. There's no way Hill would've finished as high with a 3-2-1 system.

11 players played 20+ games. Only Butler missed out on top 10.

 

[George]

A voting system that goes beyond 3-2-1 is generally regarded as a fairer system. The downside is it can reward those that play the most games.

As it should?

 

[Ducky Tie]

As it should?

It's a reasonable point they're making. B&Fs can end up just being a reflection of most games played, particularly when teams have injury riddled years. Not so much for the top few, but 6-10 can be hard to miss when you play most games, rather than rewarding the impact in games of players. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it's a reasonable caveat when getting a gauge of how the top 10 shaped up.

 

[George]

It's a reasonable point they're making. B&Fs can end up just being a reflection of most games played, particularly when teams have injury riddled years. Not so much for the top few, but 6-10 can be hard to miss when you play most games, rather than rewarding the impact in games of players. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it's a reasonable caveat when getting a gauge of how the top 10 shaped up.

So it wouldn't be unfair to reward someone with a better season that played half the games of someone else.

 

[Ducky Tie]

So it wouldn't be unfair to reward someone with a better season that played half the games of someone else.

No one's saying that. It's just a point of discussion about how the results should be interpreted. Malevu's post stated that the current system is fairer than the alternative, so no one is suggesting there should be a reform to the voting system. It is just a logical caveat to acknowledge that the current system rewards games played rather than impact. There's no perfect way to run these kind of counts and that's fine.

 

[George]

No one's saying that. It's just a point of discussion about how the results should be interpreted. Malevu's post stated that the current system is fairer than the alternative, so no one is suggesting there should be a reform to the voting system. It is just a logical caveat to acknowledge that the current system rewards games played rather than impact. There's no perfect way to run these kind of counts and that's fine.

I know it's a point of discussion. I am taking part in it. Games played is impact. The best players will end up rewarded irrespective of system anyway.

 

[Ducky Tie]

I know it's a point of discussion. I am taking part in it. Games played is impact. The best players will end up rewarded irrespective of system anyway.

I think the balance between games played and impact per game is more blended that that. Ablett in 2014 is the best exponent of it. Third in the Brownlow from 15 games but didn't even make the top three for Gold Coast's B&F. Obviously that's not directly applicable to St Kilda here, but it shows the contrast between a 3-2-1 voting system and a system weighted towards solid performances every week.

Seb Ross had very few games where he was in our best few players (this isn't an anti Seb post), but was solid in most of his 20 games so he gets rewarded with a seventh placed finish. I don't think he was our seventh best player over the season, but the voting system means every player generally gets votes for turning up. The weighting is very different to one where this a cap for the total votes per game.

 

[George]

I think the balance between games played and impact per game is more blended that that. Ablett in 2014 is the best exponent of it. Third in the Brownlow from 15 games but didn't even make the top three for Gold Coast's B&F. Obviously that's not directly applicable to St Kilda here, but it shows the contrast between a 3-2-1 voting system and a system weighted towards solid performances every week.

Seb Ross had very few games where he was in our best few players (this isn't an anti Seb post), but was solid in most of his 20 games so he gets rewarded with a seventh placed finish. I don't think he was our seventh best player over the season, but the voting system means every player generally gets votes for turning up. The weighting is very different to one where this a cap for the total votes per game.

I like our system, it rewards consistency. I don't know how different the top three would've been in a different system anyway. Steele was head and shoulders above the rest and Sinclair had a career year. Nobody really cares or remembers anything past the top 3.

 

[Ducky Tie]

I like our system, it rewards consistency. I don't know how different the top three would've been in a different system anyway. Steele was head and shoulders above the rest and Sinclair had a career year. Nobody really cares or remembers anything past the top 3.

Yeah the top three is normally going to be unaffected, regardless of the system. Not always, but generally. 6-10 is where the difference comes into it. Agree that it's pretty much forgotten though anyway.

 

[George]

Club definitely snoops BigFooty

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Club definitely snoops BigFooty

We can delist Lonie. Play DMAC as the small forward

 

[Diehard Saint]

Club definitely snoops BigFooty

Lve it!